Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

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Anime definitely helped keep my interest in animation. I loved that it tended to to be violent and darker than the safe family friendly western cartoons at the time. Plus I love the serialized nature of the storytelling. Something we didn’t get a lot in the west on television, especially western animation.

Speaking of anime, has anyone ever watched the anime versions of Marvel characters before?

Especially the X-Men.



Damn. Even if you don’t like anime you have to give it to the Japanese. They sure know how to make things look good.


I watched all Marvel anime series. hehe

My favorite is Iron Man (mostly because the main writer of the show is Inoue Toshiki, who famously known as the main writer of many Heisei Kamen Rider series, notably Agito, Kiva, and Faiz... it is interesting to see Inoue-sensei jumping from writing Japan's most popular superhero in Kamen Rider into writing the show about America's most popular superhero in Iron Man. Though sometimes he wrote too political in the show, but I always fan of his writing.)

And the late Fujiwara Kenji (the seiyuu/voice actor of Tony Stark in the MCU) is still the voice of Tony Stark in that anime series. FYI, he was one of the famous seiyuu/voice actor in Japan, he also voiced Joker in TDK Jpn dubbed. I am always a big fan of his voice. Hehe.


Oh, I even watched Marvel Future Avengers. (Though only season 1 and that show seemed to be more focused on children, haha).

Hopefully Marvel and Madhouse can colaborate in the future to make Thor anime series. (Just like MCU, with the seiyuu/voice actors of Miyake Kenta and Hirakawa Daisuke as Thor and Loki). :) thats my dream project.
 
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@Detective Conan While I cannot speak much about American culture but I have a friend there (mostly during my study tour to Toronto almost 11 years ago) that I heard that many American people do not read comic book that much as Japanese people here reading mangas. According to her, in US, people who read comic book will be considered geek, nerd , or even childish. I also remember she also said that in US, most people even shame to even call "Comic Book", instead the name "Comic Book" is change into "Graphic Novel".
Is it true, though?
Japan is a very different culture from the US. You guys attitudes towards animation and comics tend to be more open-minded than in the West where we’re still so close-minded on those particular mediums.
In Japan, an anime murder mystery like Detective Conan is generally considered a family show that could air on Saturday mornings with little to no censors on violence while in the US, there’s zero chance it would be allowable enough on a Saturday morning kids block. Detective Conan(retitled ‘Case Closed’ in America) that actually had to air late at night on Adult Swim(the adult section of an American kids cartoon channel because of the violence).

Now to your point about graphic novels: Well, in some cases they actually do that and it’s a bit pretentious to me, lol. I think that became a trend when stuff like Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen came out and showed you could do mature deep stories with a medium that was once considered for kids.

The term “Graphic novel” simply sounds more prestige and adult than simply saying “comic book” even though it’s pretty much the same thing all things considered.
If thats true, then..I found it weird since the biggest movie and even the most successful movie of all time in the world now is based on comic book. Haha.
It’s not weird to me, since unlike comic books. Film and other mediums offers sound, movement, music and VFX. It’s kind of funny, people love watching movies and shows about superheroes, love playing games about superheroes but they don’t love reading comics about superheroes. Even though comics is their birth medium.
 
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Japan is a very different culture than the US. You’re attitudes towards animation and comics do tend to be more open-minded than in the West where we’re still so close-minded on those particular mediums.
In Japan, an anime murder mystery like Detective Conan is generally considered a family show that could air on Saturday mornings with little to no censors on violence while in the US, there’s zero chance it would be allowable enough on a Saturday morning kids block. Detective Conan(retitled ‘Case Closed’ in America) that actually had to air late at night on Adult Swim(the adult section of an American kids cartoon channel because of the violence).

Now to your point about graphic novels: Well, in some cases they actually do that and it’s a bit pretentious to me, lol. I think that became a trend when stuff like Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen came out and showed you could do mature deep stories with a medium that was once considered for kids.

The term “Graphic novel” simply sounds more prestige and adult than simply saying “comic book” even though it’s pretty much the same thing all things considered.
It’s not weird to me, since unlike comic books. Film and other mediums offers sound, movement, music and VFX. It’s kind of funny, people love watching movies and shows about superheroes, love playing games about superheroes but they don’t love reading comics about superheroes. Even though comics is their birth medium.

Thanks for your reply, Meitantei-san. :)
I see now..

Yeah, I think it is shame that in US, animation and comic/manga medium is not making the same culturally impact like in Japan.

Like you stated, maybe there is a differential culture of how people in each countries sees the medium. (While here its culturally normal to see people watching anime movie, or read mangas on train, or while on coffee shop, but I can only assume it is considered un-cool or lame in America to have people read comics). Hopefully that kind of thought will change along with times. (The success of the movie hopefully can help).

As for Graphic Novels and Comic Book swap name, at first when I heard it from my friend...I found it funny, since here in Jpn, there is no way that manga can be called a novel (even with graphic). Haha.

But yeah, each manga and American comic has unique and mature content..I never dive into other American comic besides Marvel and now DC, but I really want to try Vertigo and Dark Horse in the future.

For manga, there is a lot of mature title (like most of Urasawa Naoki-sensei's titles, or Fujisawa Toru's titles). And also a lot thriller mature title like Inuyashiki, Ikigami, 20th Century Boys, Ajin. And for more erotic hentai title like : Shuumatsu Harem (World's End Harem) where tells the story of the excinct of the male species (because of strange disease), and leave the female as the dominant genre on earth. The only 5 remaining male species has been hunted by females around the world to unsure the continuity of human species. Hahaha. It is funny as it is erotic. :D

Oh, if you like murder mystery like Conan, I suggest you try Kindaichi Shounen no Jiken-bo as well (the English title I believe is Kindaichi Case File). The approach of murder is a little bit different, if Conan is based inspired by Arthur Conan Doyle, then Kindaichi is more inspired by Agatha Christie. I actually prefer Kindaichi than Conan, (if thats ever get released on US, please check those out):) I am sure you will love it.

Once again, thanks for the insightful exchange, Meitantei-san. Hehe :)
 
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I want to apologize to many friends here if I dragged the previous discussion because of my long post. Though I am not often visiting, but when I do, sometimes I got too carried away. Haha.

Maybe I got too excited when discussing something that interest me in this thread that i got carried away.

But I will definitely remind myself to make more clear point from here on and to be straight and as simple as of what I want to convey and say without too much write unrelated things from said discussion. (and especially apologize for many gramatical error on my not too good English).

Once again, sorry and Thank you all :)
 
@MarvelFan thanks for the suggestions, man!

Back on topic: When COVID-19 is over what will be the next superhero movie to make a billion dollars at the box office? I have a feeling it’s more likely to be another Marvel movie than a DC film.
 
@MarvelFan thanks for the suggestions, man!

Back on topic: When COVID-19 is over what will be the next superhero movie to make a billion dollars at the box office? I have a feeling it’s more likely to be another Marvel movie than a DC film.

Even in a weak market, Love & Thunder seems like a good bet. You've got Thor with both the Ragnarok crew and Jane Foster from the Rom Com days, the Guardians of the Galaxy, Christian Bale in his return to comic book movies with Talka Waititi directing. If that one doesn't crack $1B the whole theater going experience is in trouble.
 
RE: BP2: if they’re going ahead and casting folks, I wonder if they’ve decided to recast? It’s not impossible that they’ve rewritten or retooled the existing script, but I wasn’t expecting to hear really any news about the movie for a long time.
I feel like if they do recast, they'll just do it how they've usually done it with simply announcing who has the role now rather than telling the public that they're looking.
 
@MarvelFan thanks for the suggestions, man!

Back on topic: When COVID-19 is over what will be the next superhero movie to make a billion dollars at the box office? I have a feeling it’s more likely to be another Marvel movie than a DC film.

Thanks too :)

I think from Marvel, it is both Thor 4 and Black Widow (both are a well known member of already established Avengers member) and DC...I think the new Batman and The Suicide Squad.

And shame that if not spilitting between streaming releases, Wonder Woman 2 will have the biggest chance too.
 


Does anybody here disagree with this? Sounds like a sound strategy to me.

Easier said than done. BOP was under 100m and still flopped. And this was before Corona

WB's strategy should be getting the DC brand in order. Their current approach of randomness isn't doing them any favors in building trust or loyalty among audiences
 
I trust DC's current approach, which has made an R rated "elseworlds" Joker and Aquaman into billion dollar films, more than most fans' opinion of what DC should do, especially since most fans idea of what DC should do is just to copy the MCU.
 
I think it depends what youre looking to see out of Thor. I think theres a camp of people who want a LoTR type of film in tone and vibe thats heavy on the Norse mythology. I’m in that camp myself. Ragnarok wasnt really to my liking but i acknowledge its a very well done movie its just... not my kind of Thor vibe. I much preferred the look and feel of what Branagh was doing which kind of felt like a direct adaptation of the J Michael Stracynski run on the character.

Yes, as much as I love Ragnarok, that is not really my ideal Thor.

My ideal Thor (ironically) comes in TDW's Thor.
TDW Thor, to me is like its like both JMS' Thor and Jason Aaron's Thor came to life.
Not as hotheaded as he is in Thor 1 and certainly not as goofy and comedic like in Ragnarok and especially in Endgame. In TDW, he is the most regal, most mature, and most centered Thor in any of his MCU appearances.

I knew majority fans always find Thor boring and uninteresting before Ragnarok, but to me, a more mature and more centered Thor is always an ideal character development for Thor.

But unfortunately, thats not popular with majority of fans and audience, and Chris Hemsworth himself not like playing that version of Thor.
There is a scene in TDW where he smile before he crashed Korg, thats proved I think that Hemsworth can be charming without him have need to go goofy to be interesting.
 
I think with TDW you kinda can blame them for trying though. Jenkins and then Taylor wanted a more serious movie with a more epic tone and LOTR vibe. Then Marvel/Feige made him insert a joke every 5 mins and made him delete more dramatic scenes like Malekith's back story. The jokes are what ruined the movie for me yeah plenty of why TDW is the worst MCU movie is on Marvel for me.

I thought the first Thor movie had a great balance between humour and drama.

And Ragnorak cleverly at times (not so cleverly at others) used the humour as part of its drama.

I think thats not Feige, from what I remember, who orders Alan Taylor to reshoot to make the movie more fun and light.

I believe thats when the Commitee of Bendis and Quesada, has still have power over Feige.

Again, it is a shame that TDW (though I am not hate it as much as majority of fans) is the most wasted potential in it (though I really love Thor character the most in this and the movie still has the best Thor theme).
Malekith has been wasted also (the villain who Jason Aaron make him interesting, funny, and at the same time, terryfying, and sadistic in his book).

A shame, really.
 
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Yes, as much as I love Ragnarok, that is not really my ideal Thor.

My ideal Thor (ironically) comes in TDW's Thor.
TDW Thor, to me is like its like both JMS' Thor and Jason Aaron's Thor came to life.
Not as hotheaded as he is in Thor 1 and certainly not as goofy and comedic like in Ragnarok and especially in Endgame. In TDW, he is the most regal, most mature, and most centered Thor in any of his MCU appearances.

I knew majority fans always find Thor boring and uninteresting before Ragnarok, but to me, a more mature and more centered Thor is always an ideal character development for Thor.

But unfortunately, thats not popular with majority of fans and audience, and Chris Hemsworth himself not like playing that version of Thor.
There is a scene in TDW where he smile before he crashed Korg, thats proved I think that Hemsworth can be charming without him have need to go goofy to be interesting.
I totally see that. Ragnarok is my favorite Thor movie but TDW Thor is the one that resembles comics Thor most in the MCU. He's not stoic but he's also not a class clown. By extension, I'd also include Age of Ultron Thor in there as well because even though Joss Whedon didn't know what to do with the character in both of his Avengers movies, Hemsworth had been playing the character long enough at that point and he was still in TDW mode during AOU. Comparatively, even though Thor is a bit more serious in Infinity War, there's still some "Ragnarok Thor" in there:

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There are more than a few problems with The Dark World but I think it's safe to say no one thought that Chris Hemsworth's portrayal was one of them.
 
Easier said than done. BOP was under 100m and still flopped. And this was before Corona

WB's strategy should be getting the DC brand in order. Their current approach of randomness isn't doing them any favors in building trust or loyalty among audiences

Randomness got them billion dollar films in 2018 and 2019... it will get them more..no need to worry they will be fine...
 
Saying Aquaman and Joker made $1B was all according to WB's plan but Shazam and BOP coming way under similiar CBM I don't necessarily agree with.
 
I think theres a fundamental diff between Aquaman/Joker and BoP/Shazam that directly correlates to their BO receipts: marketing. Aquaman had amazing trailers that showcased its visuals and spectacle, that money shot of Mamoa in that beautiful suit in trailer 2 alone probably sold a lot of people. Joker’s trailers were great too, you could immediately tell this was something very different and it got people’s attention. Before the movie even came out it was a phenomenon.

The marketing teams for BOP and Shazam though really dropped the ball on making said films look appealing. It was especially egregious in BOP’s case. Those were TERRIBLE trailers, some of the worst ive ever seen. They needed to hire the Suicide Squad people to cut those trailers together and I guarantee you they would have sold the movie much better to make it look more appealing. Shazam was also swallowed by Endgame. Shouldve pushed the movie a few months out.
 
Saying Aquaman and Joker made $1B was all according to WB's plan but Shazam and BOP coming way under similiar CBM I don't necessarily agree with.

Plan or not, billion dollar is a billion dollar...they will have more of those, planned or not...They don't have to beat Marvel at the Box office and they know this....Box office underperformance are certainly not slowing them down...

Whether its concern trolling or genuine concern, I feel people should just chill and relax....There won't be a Marvel monopoly on CBMs, thankfully....
 
Well I think it's safe to say that after the MOS/BvS/JL expenditure that WB has done, the only way they'll spend that type of money again is on something that's tried and true. (See Batman or WW84) I just think that low risk/high reward investments was how WB pivoted after Snyder's movies.
 
Same. You cant “beat” Marvel. Marvel won the whole the cinematic universe game. And thats fine, let Marvel have that. DC can still make a successful string of billion dollar films that stand on their own. Last year even though Endgame dominated the popular zeitgeist most of the year, Joker came in the fourth quarter and out of nowhere became the most talked about thing of the Fall and definitely made a cultural impact.

I think if James Gunn pulls it off, he can make the SS franchise explode the way it was supposed to back in 2016.
 
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On the subject of HBO Max, I wonder if WB is considering possibly doing smaller movies like this on there now. I know there was talk of a horror-themed Trench spinoff as well.
 
What if Marvel had come up with a lineup of 23 wholly independent TDK and Joker style hits? Would that mean the only option would be for DC to dive in to a light-hearted, banter-filled, massively connected universe?
 
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