Superman & Lois General News & Discussion Thread (TAG SPOILERS!)

[Primal Slayer]

Are we going to get a new Lucy Lane too?

Also are they going to address the fact that General Lane looks different because of Crisis or just gloss over it as part of a recast?

General Lane hasnt been seen in Supergirl since Season 1 right? Its been 5 years, the general viewer isnt going to notice and no real reason to bring it up since he wont even be in SG.

And luckily we'll likely get a new Lucy as well. No sense in keeping the character on ice because an actor isnt interested in working in Vancouver.

I typically despise recasts, so I'm already primed to dislike the casting for this. However, the fact that the age difference between the actors playing Sam and Lois isn't too accurate for a father and daughter makes it even less appealing.

I'm more concerned about the casting of "diverse" actors for Lana and her family. It is incredibly tone deaf and likely to anger POC, as this (profanity included) post reveals.

There's a 17 year age gap between the actors playing Sam/Lois and he's 4 years younger than the original actor who played Sam. Sam had Lois when he was 17/18, young father, highly believable.

 

[misslane38]

There's a 17 year age gap between the actors playing Sam/Lois and he's 4 years younger than the original actor who played Sam. Sam had Lois when he was 17/18, young father, highly believable.

It's feasible, but with all the other weird age issues with the cast, it makes more of a mess of things than is necessary. As it is, not only did Sam have Lois when he hadn't even graduated from high school or become old enough to enlist in the army, Lois herself would have been a relatively young mother.

Bitsie/Lois is 39, while her sons on the show will be high school freshmen (14/15). That means Lois likely had them when she was 25. Now that is typical for plenty of women, but not Lois Lane. Lois is usually working at the Daily Planet a few years before Clark arrives, and it usually takes them at least a few additional years to get serious enough to get married. Both of them struggle not only with what it means to be intimate and trust because of past emotional issues, but also with balancing their personal lives with their dedication to the "never ending battle," so to speak.

If she and Clark had the boys at the ages suggested, all of that talk from Clark to Kara in his first appearance about how hard it was to figure out a balance between the two sides of his identity (and that's when he was only just dating Lois after years of knowing her) is gone and replaced by someone who actually got his act together with relative ease. It also places Lois as a young mother having to take care of two young children—one of whom (Jordan) the pilot tells us was troubled and difficult—while in the prime of her career when she's usually reporting on crime or from war zones. The pilot also suggests Clark kind of left her to it ("Lois...took over...while I made the world a little safer....").

It also means that he wasn't some bachelor who was still figuring things out when Kara arrived. If Kal was in his 20s when Kara arrived on Earth, Kara became Supergirl roughly 10 years later, and the twins are in their teens, that means that Kal was already a father when Kara arrived. Instead of being dumped with the Danvers, she could have easily become part of his family and helped raise his sons, as she would have done for him had he still been a baby like she had been expecting. Moreover, if one is to take the Argo location for the conception and birth of the boys, then one is left wondering how, without it, Lois and Clark were even able to have children.

In short, the ages work in a general or abstract sense, but the way they compress the timeline for these characters isn't ideal. To me, it doesn't resonate with how these characters are typically developed in the broader Superman mythos.

 

[misslane38]

But why aren't they good choices? Because a blogger said so? Show hasn't even been filmed yet. Any character can be torn apart to suit an agenda our emotional response. It's all opinions.

It's not just any blogger. It's a woman of color who is the prime audience for this show. I'm not a person of color, so I think it's worthwhile to seriously consider what a "diverse" person thinks about a show's attempt to represent "diverse" people through their casting. Representation isn't always good. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it, and it seems S&L is going for the wrong way.

The casting notices say that Lana and Kyle are being looked at for "diverse" actors to fill the roles. To get a sense of the kinds of diversity one could expect, one could imagine either African-American, Latino, or Asian actors in the parts. Kansas tends to already be much less diverse than most other states in America, but it does have more African-Americans in it than Latino or Asian people. Even so, the show doesn't have to be that accurate.

Still, imagine that Kyle is cast as an African-American. How do you think it looks that the only man of color on your show is an alcoholic, misogynist, and a MAGA analogue? It's both very unlikely that a person of color would support Trump-like rhetoric (it does happen, but it's rare) and not great to set your diverse characters up to be representative of bad values (that oppose the protagonists') and to be disliked by viewers. At least Superman III, which this show (at least the pilot) takes heavy inspiration from, had the decency to make Lana's brutish boyfriend white and have the man of color (Richard Pryor) play the sympathetic working man who was incredibly smart and ultimately remorseful about his attempts to hurt Superman.

I'm not sure it would be better if Kyle was white, however, because of how it would reflect on his relationship with Lana. If Lana is a woman of color, using her as someone who is in a marriage with a white man with all of those previously mentioned flaws, not only makes one wonder why they would have ever become a couple, but also paints Lana as even more of a victim. Having Lana be a woman of color who creates tension in the Kent marriage puts her in a terrible position too, as does having their daughter be fought over by three boys in the first episode alone.

I have very little faith that this can be executed well. Listening to my friends and fellow fans who are people of color gives me every reason to believe this is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Vaibow]

That's down to the shows writing team then... I

It's not just any blogger. It's a woman of color who is the prime audience for this show. I'm not a person of color, so I think it's worthwhile to seriously consider what a "diverse" person thinks about a show's attempt to represent "diverse" people through their casting. Representation isn't always good. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it, and it seems S&L is going for the wrong way.

The casting notices say that Lana and Kyle are being looked at for "diverse" actors to fill the roles. To get a sense of the kinds of diversity one could expect, one could imagine either African-American, Latino, or Asian actors in the parts. Kansas tends to already be much less diverse than most other states in America, but it does have more African-Americans in it than Latino or Asian people. Even so, the show doesn't have to be that accurate.

Still, imagine that Kyle is cast as an African-American. How do you think it looks that the only man of color on your show is an alcoholic, misogynist, and a MAGA analogue? It's both very unlikely that a person of color would support Trump-like rhetoric (it does happen, but it's rare) and not great to set your diverse characters up to be representative of bad values (that oppose the protagonists') and to be disliked by viewers. At least Superman III, which this show (at least the pilot) takes heavy inspiration from, had the decency to make Lana's brutish boyfriend white and have the man of color (Richard Pryor) play the sympathetic working man who was incredibly smart and ultimately remorseful about his attempts to hurt Superman.

I'm not sure it would be better if Kyle was white, however, because of how it would reflect on his relationship with Lana. If Lana is a woman of color, using her as someone who is in a marriage with a white man with all of those previously mentioned flaws, not only makes one wonder why they would have ever become a couple, but also paints Lana as even more of a victim. Having Lana be a woman of color who creates tension in the Kent marriage puts her in a terrible position too, as does having their daughter be fought over by three boys in the first episode alone.

I have very little faith that this can be executed well. Listening to my friends and fellow fans who are people of color gives me every reason to believe this is a recipe for disaster.

That's the writing team then... if it doesn't come across well, that's their issue - I would assume.

I find it interesting - in bold - that you felt it was the right thing to do, making the white man the issue and the black man the sympathetic one.

If the cast you see on screen represents society, then that to me is more important that 'diversity' which these days feels like a token gesture 'ohh hire a black guy to meet quota'.

America has a rich, varied culture, with diverse heritage - that of course is what we expect to see and should see on screen. But to be afraid to portray POC in a negative light because it goes against the PC culture - no thanks - Kyle could knock it out the park and be a great arc that comes full circle.

Anyways, each to their own and we shall see when the series comes out - I'm out of this topic, ciao.

 

[Brierrose]

It's feasible, but with all the other weird age issues with the cast, it makes more of a mess of things than is necessary. As it is, not only did Sam have Lois when he hadn't even graduated from high school or become old enough to enlist in the army, Lois herself would have been a relatively young mother.

Bitsie/Lois is 39, while her sons on the show will be high school freshmen (14/15). That means Lois likely had them when she was 25. Now that is typical for plenty of women, but not Lois Lane. Lois is usually working at the Daily Planet a few years before Clark arrives, and it usually takes them at least a few additional years to get serious enough to get married. Both of them struggle not only with what it means to be intimate and trust because of past emotional issues, but also with balancing their personal lives with their dedication to the "never ending battle," so to speak.

If she and Clark had the boys at the ages suggested, all of that talk from Clark to Kara in his first appearance about how hard it was to figure out a balance between the two sides of his identity (and that's when he was only just dating Lois after years of knowing her) is gone and replaced by someone who actually got his act together with relative ease. It also places Lois as a young mother having to take care of two young children—one of whom (Jordan) the pilot tells us was troubled and difficult—while in the prime of her career when she's usually reporting on crime or from war zones. The pilot also suggests Clark kind of left her to it ("Lois...took over...while I made the world a little safer....").

It also means that he wasn't some bachelor who was still figuring things out when Kara arrived. If Kal was in his 20s when Kara arrived on Earth, Kara became Supergirl roughly 10 years later, and the twins are in their teens, that means that Kal was already a father when Kara arrived. Instead of being dumped with the Danvers, she could have easily become part of his family and helped raise his sons, as she would have done for him had he still been a baby like she had been expecting. Moreover, if one is to take the Argo location for the conception and birth of the boys, then one is left wondering how, without it, Lois and Clark were even able to have children.

In short, the ages work in a general or abstract sense, but the way they compress the timeline for these characters isn't ideal. To me, it doesn't resonate with how these characters are typically developed in the broader Superman mythos.

The answer to the vast majority of this is CoIE changed the timeline of Clark and Lois’s relationship a lot. They went from having an infant son, which worked with what we knew pre-CoIE, to two teenagers. They must have started their relationship much earlier on Earth-Prime. TPTB are going to have to come up with something because you’re right about Lois.

They could still pull something like Katy Keen, which takes place five years after Riverdale, did to partly account for things. The only catch with a time jump is that Superman and Lois couldn’t have an episode in a mega crossover although Clark and Lois themselves could appear in the other shows just as earlier versions. My gut kinda says they’re done with mega crossovers, and will focus more on single show crossovers. Certainly with next season in major flux due to COVID-19 I don’t foresee a mega crossover this fall.

 

[Primal Slayer]

\

It's feasible, but with all the other weird age issues with the cast, it makes more of a mess of things than is necessary. As it is, not only did Sam have Lois when he hadn't even graduated from high school or become old enough to enlist in the army, Lois herself would have been a relatively young mother.

Bitsie/Lois is 39, while her sons on the show will be high school freshmen (14/15). That means Lois likely had them when she was 25. Now that is typical for plenty of women, but not Lois Lane. Lois is usually working at the Daily Planet a few years before Clark arrives, and it usually takes them at least a few additional years to get serious enough to get married. Both of them struggle not only with what it means to be intimate and trust because of past emotional issues, but also with balancing their personal lives with their dedication to the "never ending battle," so to speak.

If she and Clark had the boys at the ages suggested, all of that talk from Clark to Kara in his first appearance about how hard it was to figure out a balance between the two sides of his identity (and that's when he was only just dating Lois after years of knowing her) is gone and replaced by someone who actually got his act together with relative ease. It also places Lois as a young mother having to take care of two young children—one of whom (Jordan) the pilot tells us was troubled and difficult—while in the prime of her career when she's usually reporting on crime or from war zones. The pilot also suggests Clark kind of left her to it ("Lois...took over...while I made the world a little safer....").

It also means that he wasn't some bachelor who was still figuring things out when Kara arrived. If Kal was in his 20s when Kara arrived on Earth, Kara became Supergirl roughly 10 years later, and the twins are in their teens, that means that Kal was already a father when Kara arrived. Instead of being dumped with the Danvers, she could have easily become part of his family and helped raise his sons, as she would have done for him had he still been a baby like she had been expecting. Moreover, if one is to take the Argo location for the conception and birth of the boys, then one is left wondering how, without it, Lois and Clark were even able to have children.

In short, the ages work in a general or abstract sense, but the way they compress the timeline for these characters isn't ideal. To me, it doesn't resonate with how these characters are typically developed in the broader Superman mythos.

I dont really see how that makes a mess for things. People have kids as teenagers and join the military all the time and we arent 100% certain at how old he is meant to be as actors play different ages all the time. He could be 60 in the show which is perfectly realisitc. Stephen Amell played younger as Oliver Queen while Katie Cassidy played older as Laurel Lance. Hell Tom Welling was a 24 year old adult playing 14/year old during Smallville!

Lois having kids at 25 isnt the most drastic change to the character, she can still be the driven reporter she is. It doesnt change who Lois is at her core. Clark totally could've become Superman at age 20, meet Lois, and they get married/pregnant relatively quick. Now granted I agree that given them 2 teenagers is messy but to me it isnt something that is totally unbelievable. But the ages have been messed up since they cast Tyler who is only 1 year older than Melissa but intended to have such a large age gap between the two with him being so into his career by the time Kara comes along. But maybe they'll retcon that with Crisis.

 

[Dr.]

According to pre-Crisis continuity, Superman would be 41 today (born in 1979). And the reason he looks younger (like Hoechlin) is due to Kryptonian genetics. Obviously, this pretext came about because the timeline was established before Hoechlin was cast.

Lois’s exact age was never specified. But initially, there was reasonable speculation she’d be 30-ish. IOW, Lois would be closer to Hoechlin’s real age - not Superman’s fictional age. But as it happened, Tulloch (a few years older than Hoechlin) was cast as Lois. So in a coincidental amalgam of fiction and fact, both Superman and Lois are the same age. Indeed, in a post-Crisis reality, this chronology pretty much has to be the case. It strains credulity that a 30-ish superstar reporter could have teenaged twins. A 40-ish Lois Lane is slightly more plausible.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

‘Superman & Lois’: Emmanuelle Chriqui To Play Lana Lang In the CW Series – Deadline

 

[Dr.]

‘Superman & Lois’: Emmanuelle Chriqui To Play Lana Lang In the CW Series – Deadline

Hmmm... She's even older than Tulloch. But she would somewhat satisfy the "diverse casting" thing (if that really was a thing).

 

[terry78]

Fair enough. They're not supposed to be in their 20s like Supergirl and her team are.

 

[misslane38]

America has a rich, varied culture, with diverse heritage - that of course is what we expect to see and should see on screen. But to be afraid to portray POC in a negative light because it goes against the PC culture - no thanks - Kyle could knock it out the park and be a great arc that comes full circle.

Anyways, each to their own and we shall see when the series comes out - I'm out of this topic, ciao.

America is all you say it is, but statistically people of color rarely support conservatives, and African Americans in particular did not support Trump in any significant way in 2016; Morgan Edge is being used as a Trump stand-in for this show. African Americans won't support Trump in 2020 either. According to one source, "An overwhelming majority of black voters — 85 percent — said in a new Hill-HarrisX poll that they would choose any Democratic presidential candidate over President Trump."

I am only sharing what my fellow fan, a woman of color, had to say about the use of "diverse" actors on the show. I also agree with her take and share her concerns. We can agree to disagree, however, if that is your preference.

 

[misslane38]

The answer to the vast majority of this is CoIE changed the timeline of Clark and Lois’s relationship a lot. They went from having an infant son, which worked with what we knew pre-CoIE, to two teenagers. They must have started their relationship much earlier on Earth-Prime. TPTB are going to have to come up with something because you’re right about Lois.

I am aware that COIE changed the timeline. I'm not questioning the mechanics of it. I'm questioning how those changes impact the characters and what we know about their development both as individuals and as a couple. What bothers me is that it didn't have to be this way. There was no edict that COIE had to change their lives so drastically. To me, this might as well be an AU rather than a spin-off, and one that has more in common with Riverdale and Smallville than anything in the Arrowverse.

They could still pull something like Katy Keen, which takes place five years after Riverdale, did to partly account for things. The only catch with a time jump is that Superman and Lois couldn’t have an episode in a mega crossover although Clark and Lois themselves could appear in the other shows just as earlier versions. My gut kinda says they’re done with mega crossovers, and will focus more on single show crossovers. Certainly with next season in major flux due to COVID-19 I don’t foresee a mega crossover this fall.

Perhaps, but I think something about how the pilot is written with Clark adjusting to the changes, as if they are recent, suggests that it's taking place fairly soon after Crisis.

 

[misslane38]

\

I dont really see how that makes a mess for things. People have kids as teenagers and join the military all the time and we arent 100% certain at how old he is meant to be as actors play different ages all the time. He could be 60 in the show which is perfectly realisitc. Stephen Amell played younger as Oliver Queen while Katie Cassidy played older as Laurel Lance. Hell Tom Welling was a 24 year old adult playing 14/year old during Smallville!

Lois having kids at 25 isnt the most drastic change to the character, she can still be the driven reporter she is. It doesnt change who Lois is at her core. Clark totally could've become Superman at age 20, meet Lois, and they get married/pregnant relatively quick. Now granted I agree that given them 2 teenagers is messy but to me it isnt something that is totally unbelievable. But the ages have been messed up since they cast Tyler who is only 1 year older than Melissa but intended to have such a large age gap between the two with him being so into his career by the time Kara comes along. But maybe they'll retcon that with Crisis.

Like I said, I get that it's logistically and biologically possible. It just doesn't feel true to who these characters are in terms of the larger mythos. For example, usually Lois and Lucy's mother dies when they are quite young. For Sam to be a young father caring for two young children and grieving his wife all while building a name for himself in the army, hints at a very troubling childhood for Lois. It's hard to imagine this Lois figuring her whole life out to the point that she'd be ready to marry and have children—with a man who would have to serve a greater good like her dad did—as she is in this show's new continuity.

I didn't love the age strangeness with Tyler, but I could adapt to it considering the Kryptonian aging excuse. However, when it affects how quickly and easily the characters mature as adults in their careers and in their personal lives, it bugs me. It bugs me to think that Clark found Kara when he and Lois were already likely settled in their own home with children of their own, and he still didn't take an active role in her life. Couple that with the pilot's description of Clark as both secretive and kind of absent, in some respects, from the raising of his own children, and one doesn't get the best impression of him as a father-figure.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I wish they didn't have to shoot in Vancouver. Move them to ATL with BL. Yes I know they won't, especially for crossover purposes.

 

[Mysteryman]

I think we have to brace ourselves for the possibility that BL might someday move to Vancouver.

 

[misslane38]

Hmmm... She's even older than Tulloch. But she would somewhat satisfy the "diverse casting" thing (if that really was a thing).

As far as I can tell, other than having a darker complexion, she is not a woman of color. If the show tries to pass her off as diverse, as the casting notice suggested they were after, then it will be another misstep for this already flawed show. Specifically, it will be a repeat of the controversy that occurred as a result of Floriana Lima, a white woman, being cast as a Latina Maggie Sawyer.

I don't know what's worse, Smallville casting an actual WOC, Kristin Kreuk, as Lana without ever explicitly stating that she was half-Chinese, as Kreuk is, or Superman & Lois casting a white woman as Lana and trying to suggest that she is a WOC on the show.

 

[Dr.]

As far as I can tell, other than having a darker complexion, she is not a woman of color.

Technically, she’s “African-Canadian” - both parents were Moroccan.

Like you, I think it would be problematic to cast a person of color as Kyle Cushing - given his character description. And I’ll believe it when I see it. But if “diverse casting” means that only Lana is ethnic, then that’ll work out.

 

[flickchick85]

I like the Lana casting.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Emmanuelle Chriqui.

She was great on Entourage. Interesting casting choice for Lana Lang.

 

[misslane38]

Comments like this are so cringeworthy, particularly this part "Truth be told I was hoping for a 'ginger' girl but another exotic dark haired one will do." I really hope they don't try to make it that Lana is a Latina or any other non-white ethnicity, because the actress is white.

 

[vantheman77]

Great casting for Lana Lang. I know Emmanuelle did the voice of Cheetara from the 2011 Thundercats animated series.

I wonder if her version of Lana Lang will become Superwoman Red like the current comics.

 

[Vaibow]

I wish they didn't have to shoot in Vancouver. Move them to ATL with BL. Yes I know they won't, especially for crossover purposes.

It's such a boring city and starting to become very generic, thanks to the shows but also MOS, Deapool etc.

The theme tune... please don't mess up the theme tune.

 

[flickchick85]

The theme tune... please don't mess up the theme tune.

This Superman's already got a theme, I don't imagine them changing it.

 

[misslane38]

Technically, she’s “African-Canadian” - both parents were Moroccan.

Sure, but that is her nationality, not her ethnicity or race. Your winky face suggests you may already be aware of this. In addition to being Jewish, she is also Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian. She is descended from the white European settlers of an African (Morrocan) territory. Her race is white.

Like you, I think it would be problematic to cast a person of color as Kyle Cushing - given his character description. And I’ll believe it when I see it. But if “diverse casting” means that only Lana is ethnic, then that’ll work out.

Except the actress playing Lana has an ancestry that, aside from being Jewish, is neither "diverse" nor "ethnic," whatever that means. What worries me most is them doing what they did with Floriana Lima (Maggie Sawyer) and taking her vaguely brown skin color as a pass to label her on the show as any "diverse" ethnicity or race they please.

 

[Vaibow]

This party suddenly turned dark...