Superman Returns vs Man of Steel

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My buddy and I recorded a podcast comparing the two films (FranchiseWars by Kitchen Sink on Apple Podcasts), but we also noted that both are completely different animals regarding the franchise... But still have a few kind of weird similarities.

I mean, one was trying to refit and relaunch an old series, even to the extent of casting actors more for the way they could play Donner's versions than me ones, while the other film was very much trying to start over and reinterpret the characters. But both had excellent casts, and both featured Kryptonian terraforming as key plot points.

Both also have some interesting implications when viewed in hindsight. Jason White is basically a prototype of Chris Kent and Jon Kent, while there's actually some heartwarming implications about Smallville in MOS when you realize that a good chunk fit eh town probably knows about Clark, but didn't utter a peep under Zod's threat.

What dot out guys think? Is one better than the other? Are there things we missed?
 
To be honest I haven't watched Superman Returns for many a year but I remember being seriously underwhelmed by it. Man of Steel on the other hand I liked from the first time I saw it and it's grown even more on me since. But then I generally like Snyder's films.
 
There were elements of Superman Returns that I think were really interesting. I actually liked the melancholy feel to Routh's Superman. You really got the impression that Clark felt alone and different in that movie, and he was coming to terms with never having the love of his life again. I think they went too far with the superboy storyline though, and ultimately the whole premise of the film was doomed from the start. Superman Returns gave us perhaps the most vulnerable interpretation of the character so far, and I liked that.

Man of Steel has definitely grown on me, as a whole. Unlike Superman Returns, MOS flirts with greatness several times. Maybe that's why the subpar scenes stick out so bad. MOS gave us the most grounded and realistic view of the character so far. Clark felt grounded and very normal human in this movie... maybe too much so. Ultimately, I rate MOS higher than Superman Returns because we really care about Clark in MOS. The dialogue is better, the characters are more developed, theres a much better villain, the fighting is way way better. Just in general, MOS is a well made superhero origin movie.
 
Honestly, it's not even close for me. Superman Returns sucks all the life out of my favorite superhero, so much so that James Marsden plays the arguably most likeable character in the movie. I wanted to walk out of that film and ask for my money back - it was awful.

Man of Steel has its ups and downs, but starts off with a kick ass Krypton sequence, gets a bit mopey - but still has young Clark saving people - and then picks up speed when Zod and co show up.

It needed some tweaks (Pa Kent's death was awful) and it would have been awesome - but I still really enjoyed it
 
Returns is focused on trying to be a Donner film, on trying to replicate those movies.
MOS is focused on being something new, on being a radically different take from what has come before.

Returns is about the past and relies on nostalgia to work, MOS is about the future, and seeks to forge a new path.

Perhaps if I grew up in the 70's or 80's the nostalgia angle would've worked on me, the idea of going back to the past may have appealed. Instead it just felt like a tribute act.

MOS had a lot of fresh ideas, concepts that had never been in a Superman film before, which appealed to me.

An allegory would be cover versions of a song; imagine Superman: The Movie was the original. Returns is a singer who isn't quite as good singing it it the exact same style. MOS completely changes the style, uses different instruments and does something new with the song.
 
Man Of Steel has many faults, but nothing quite compares to turning Superman into a stalker.

Also, ALL HE DOES IS LIFT THINGS.
 
Perhaps if I grew up in the 70's or 80's the nostalgia angle would've worked on me, the idea of going back to the past may have appealed. Instead it just felt like a tribute act.

I grew up then but SR still didn't work for me.
 
Honestly, it's not even close for me. Superman Returns sucks all the life out of my favorite superhero, so much so that James Marsden plays the arguably most likeable character in the movie. I wanted to walk out of that film and ask for my money back - it was awful.

Man of Steel has its ups and downs, but starts off with a kick ass Krypton sequence, gets a bit mopey - but still has young Clark saving people - and then picks up speed when Zod and co show up.

It needed some tweaks (Pa Kent's death was awful) and it would have been awesome - but I still really enjoyed it
It needed breathing room from when he returns home to when Zod and company come into the picture in my personal opinion.
 
Though flawed, MoS was much better.

I liked Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor a lot but even his story felt pretty abrupt, both in abruptly, all of a sudden being implemented (it felt like the movie was barely in its middle and then it was in the climax) and then ending in a bit of a let down. The rest of the characters were pretty bad ...

Both versions of Superman were too lacking in charisma and energy, although Cavill had a little more interest and presence. SR Perry and Jimmy were wasted, Lois really lacked interest or likeability or uniqueness (and the comparison with Kidder Lois was particularly damaging to her as she was probably the only element that didn't feel like trying to be like her predecessor and felt different for the worse) and Richard felt really obligatory/wasted, there because Lois has to be with somebody and SM2 just had a love triangle (and Jason also pretty much just there for shock value); MoS Lois and Perry were solid, good modernizations as was Superman's relationship with Lois and Martha was also a pretty good civilian-link for Clark. MoS may have had too much action but that was tremendously better than nearly none and then something pretty impersonal and routine-ish (yeah, freaking lifting something big and painful for him) in SR.
 
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Definitely SR. It’s not the best movie in the world, and MOS honestly isn’t much worse, but the latter angers me whereas the former is just kinda boring.
 
Definitely Man of Steel because Superman kicked ass though destructively whereas in Superman Returns, he stalks Lois Lane and gets beaten by Lex Luthor.
 
SR for me. It's hugely flawed-- namely the pacing, the lack of character development until the third act, not utilising either Superman or Routh to his full potential, the very flawed (and possible franchise killer) of the love triangle, dull action outside of a few things, not doing much with the Lex/Superman rivalry etc... but I love the design, the camerawork/direction, the music is fantastic, the whole movie has a warm, fun, romantic yet uniquely bittersweet and melancholic tone. Those things manage to outweigh the bad for me and carry it through. I've seen it all the way through many times.

MoS is my ideal Superman movie on paper*, but on-screen is a frustrating, messy, lifeless, sometimes infuriating experience for me. I really like a lot of the design (not all), the entire cast (except for Costner, who clearly couldn't care less)... I don't know. I'm struggling for the positives here. The main Zimmer theme was a valiant and mostly successful attempt, but the rest of the music is actually hard to listen to in a sustained way... But ultimately, the script never clicks in terms of structure and certainly not character, I find the camera work/direction messy and headache inducing (the music and ridiculous character decisions contribute here) and the tone doesn't at all work for the character. It doesn't use Cavill or certainly Superman to anywhere near full potential. While SR never really attempts to touch on Superman's importance (it hints that it will, but never actually does anything with it), MoS goes full bore into it... But does it ineptly and gets it largely wrong, then tries to make up for it with empty lip service. I can only watch it a scene or two at a time, on YouTube, while wondering what might have been. I think I've only seen the full thing... three times?

*This may actually count as point against it. They really had all the right ingredients, and messed up the execution in so many ways. Worst of all, whenever there's another Superman origin on film-- and I have to assume there will be-- they'll have to veer off from those ingredients just to differentiate itself from MoS. So yeah, it loses points for squandering all that potential.
 
I still maintain that Superman Returns was a nice (though melancholy) exploration and “deconstruction” of the mythos. But if the film was to be a divisive, one-and-done exercise (as it proved to be :word:), it’s too bad it wasn’t a more unique and personal interpretation - as opposed to a derivative “vague sequel” to STM and SII.

Admittedly, that’s easier said than done. On the one hand, doing an original music score and deleting the cutesy homages (“…still the safest way to travel”) would be fairly straightforward. On the other, the FOS/“crystal tech” stuff from STM is a rather integral story element in SR. And coming up with an equivalent (but different) plot device would entail a fairly major overhaul.
 
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They are both flawed but I take MOS. I at least saw some upside in the film going forward. When it ends there were new possibilities. When Superman Returns ends it feels like it has nowhere else to go. I would take a scene or two from SR. I would especially take the shuttle rescue sequence and place that in MOS. For all their differences they also share some similarities. They both mute Superman's personality diluting the actor's charisma.
 
I liked Man of Steel more as a film, but I thought Brandon Routh was the better Superman.
 
Man of Steel, no contest.
 
Man of Steel. I was always a fan of SR's basic premise, but it's just lean on too many fronts. I don't understand exactly how they felt a lot of it would fly. MOS had more to offer and it at least had the good sense of being the film that everybody wanted, like it was said above, "on paper". Modern origin, grounded take, huge city action. It's not great. But it's better than.

SR does have its assets, though. Their take on stuff like Metropolis and the Daily Planet was nice and more distinctive than MOS's, which felt like fearful reluctance to step out of Nolan's "Gotham is Chicago" mold. I prefer the more graceful flying bits as opposed to obnoxious loud take-offs. John Ottman's score had great moments. And the plane rescue still earns good thrills.
 
Just for my two pennies worth...

Both films have their good & bad points, most of which have been already covered.

SR - plane rescue, aesthetic of the whole film, score
MoS - action, flight scenes, suit

but overall I'm siding with MoS, purely for the whole kid story line in SR. I remember cringing when I saw that in the cinema.

SR has grown on me over time, but MoS still gets the nod.
 
Absolutely no question or contest, Man of Steel far superior across the board.

Superman Returns falls more into the same category as Batman vs Superman in the sense that some of the creative choices made for the film(s) still baffle me.
 
I actually love both. For me SR is the movie that turned me into a true Superman fan, it got me reading the comics as it showed a few sides to Superman I had never seen before, like his alienation from the human race, yet he still had that fierce desire to protect it. It’s still a movie I watch every 12 months or so as I enjoyed it that much. It also has very powerful moments.

MOS I wasn’t on board with at first, being a fan of SR I wanted to see the sequel to it. But Nolan and then Snyder involvement got me interested, and I liked the final movie a lot. I thought it was a great modern take on Superman. Also, for me, over time, MOS still holds up damn well.
 
MOS I wasn’t on board with at first [...] But Nolan and then Snyder involvement got me interested, and I liked the final movie a lot. I thought it was a great modern take on Superman. Also, for me, over time, MOS still holds up damn well.

I felt/feel exactly the same way about MoS.
 

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