Survivor season 35: HvHvH

[psylockolussus]

Survivor is quite a cheap show to produce and remains to be one of CBS' highest rated shows. I think the reason is they have hundreds of crew members to fly over and its harder to accommodate all of them if they change location every season or every year. So they are basically choosing comfort instead of bothering to scout for a new location.

I don't like that the HII goes right back in play after it is played. I wish they waited 2-3 tribals before tossing it back in. It just becomes a boring twist not a interesting one.

They seem to be trying to cater to this social media crowd with the lame open forum jury thing. I prefer each jury member having a question of their own.

Not into the fire making it is clear the winner will take the weakest person with them. I prefer a final 2 over a final 3 anyways as well.

Most of the jury members didn't even get to talk that much and while Desi, Joe and Cole were yapping back and forty.

 

[Matt]

The twist was great, considering Chrissy was given the final immunity challenge win. She did the same thing Ben did in that challenge and won

I just double-checked since I still had it on the DVR, and you are right. The "S" in heroes is indeed upside down.

Uhh...the letter S cannot be upside down. It is the same in reverse as it is right side up. The problem with Ben wasn't the alignment of the tile. It was the fact that upside down U is not a letter. Therefore he had not successfully spelled the word. The challenge was to spell the words, not align the tiles properly. You cannot spell the word with a letter that does not exist in the English language.

 

[Matt]

As for the twist, the reason it doesn't work is simple: it changes the base rule of the game at its most pivotal point. Survivor is a social game where you advance by voting out other players. Its not a game where you advance by winning challenges, nor has it ever been. A game has to have some consistently applied base rules (watch the more recent seasons of Big Brother to see how bad it can get when a game doesn't have consistently applied base rules, but rather operates at the whim of production's preferences). Survivor's twists; be it hidden immunity idols, vote steals, or tribe swaps have never changed that core principle, until now.

And to make it all the more egregious, the players had no way to adapt to it. As Adam Klein (Season 33 winner) pointed out on RHAP, Devon played the perfect game to get to the finals, based on the rules of this game, as they have always existed. To change that at the end is, frankly, unfair.

It is the functional equivalent to a Super Bowl, in which a team trails by 2 points with 1 minute left. The team drives the ball down to the 20 yard line, calls a time out with 3 seconds left, sends their field goal unit out, and suddenly the ref stops the game and says "WAIT! THERE IS A TWIST! FIELD GOALS NO LONGER COUNT IN THE LAST MINUTE OF THE GAME!"

Further, the justification for this twist makes no sense. Probst justifies it by saying he asked for the change when he noticed a trend of great players making it to the final four and then getting voted out by players who felt that they could not beat the great player. Well no ****. You know when else that happens? The final 5. And the final 6. And the final 7. And right after the merge. And right before the merge. And on the first day of the game. Survivor is a game of voting out players you do not think you can beat. That is literally the game. A truly great player (which Ben is not), need not worry about being voted out at the final four because they will have either crafted such an alliance that it will not turn on them or played with enough subtlety that they are not perceived as unbeatable (just as Devon did). Production should not be setting up rules to ensure that their preferred player gets to the end. And they certainly should not be moving the goal post at the very last minute, with no notice, to ensure it happens.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Uhh...the letter S cannot be upside down. It is the same in reverse as it is right side up. The problem with Ben wasn't the alignment of the tile. It was the fact that upside down U is not a letter. Therefore he had not successfully spelled the word. The challenge was to spell the words, not align the tiles properly. You cannot spell the word with a letter that does not exist in the English language.

It was because of the font they used, that meant the "S" was supposed to be aligned a particular way. And in her final solution, one was upside down.

 

[Matt]

It was because of the font they used, that meant the "S" was supposed to be aligned a particular way. And in her final solution, one was upside down.

An S is an S either way, regardless of the size of the curve at the top and bottom. The challenge was about spelling a word, not aligning a tile. Jeff said "the first person to spell Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers wins." Not "The first person to align the tiles as they are displayed in the preview of the B-Team running the challenge (which the players do not see) wins." Remember, the players did not have a point of reference. What we see, before the challenge, is for the audience's benefit and is the production team doing the challenge. The players do not see that. Ergo, there is no reason for any player to think that the S (which is the same letter, regardless of being flipped) belongs in a certain way. They were told to spell words. Chrissy spelled the words. Ben did not.

 

[Matt]

Also, Adam Klein of Millennial v GenX fame was told by both members of production and players who competed in this challenge (and he implied Ben told him this but trailed off before he could finish the thought) that part of the explicit rules of the challenge, was that letters could not be upside down WITH THE SPECIFIC EXCEPTION OF S, O, and another he could not remember (likely E) because these letters are the same either way. It was part of the rules going in (unlike the F4 twist).

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Also, Adam Klein of Millennial v GenX fame was told by both members of production and players who competed in this challenge (and he implied Ben told him this but trailed off before he could finish the thought) that part of the explicit rules of the challenge, was that letters could not be upside down WITH THE SPECIFIC EXCEPTION OF S, O, and another he could not remember (likely E) because these letters are the same either way. It was part of the rules going in (unlike the F4 twist).

If this was the case and those were the rules, then that's fine. Thanks for that.

 

[BestGirl]

The upside-down S was barely visible anyway. Who cares about it?

 

[Matt]

The upside-down S was barely visible anyway. Who cares about it?

Its irrelevant. But its a way that Ben apologists are justifying an unprecedented change to the rules of the game, at the last minute, that gave the win to an undeserving winner.

If you cannot survive the final four vote, you do not deserve to win. Just as you do not deserve to win if there is any vote that you cannot survive.

 

[LoganPool]

Finally got the chance to watch the finale. Holy crap, what an ending. And I admit, the first 3/4 of this season were lake-luster, but the last 3-4 weeks were phenomenal, IMO!

Spoiler

As a combat veteran myself, and someone who knows what it's like to lose someone with PTSD, a couldn't be more proud of Ben. I thought for sure Chrissy was gonna win (I would've been happy with that too, BTW.) But when Ben was announced, I teared up. I don't care what anyone says, he's an inspiration.

 

[Quasar]

What was the deal with the after-show reunion only being a half hour? And Probst only talked to 4 people, with Lauren only getting a couple of seconds as a seque into talking about the next season.

 

[LoganPool]

I'll be honest, I don't know much about Survivor, so excuse my ignorance on the matter... but is season 36 already done filming? How long did Ben, Chrissy, and Ryan have to wait to know the result of this season??

 

[psylockolussus]

It was already filmed. While S35's final tribal council was filmed on May 11 of this year.

What was the deal with the after-show reunion only being a half hour? And Probst only talked to 4 people, with Lauren only getting a couple of seconds as a seque into talking about the next season.

Jefftalked to Devin and Mike after they were voted out so I guess that counted. But the rest of the cast, sitting in front of the audience and not saying anything. Eh. And I am sure Jeff has been getting criticism from this for years now and he continues to do his own thing.

 

[Matt]

I'll be honest, I don't know much about Survivor, so excuse my ignorance on the matter... but is season 36 already done filming? How long did Ben, Chrissy, and Ryan have to wait to know the result of this season??

If you watch the reunion show on CBS All Access, it has a run time of 14 minutes.

I think the reason is to avoid drawing attention to the twist. Probst and production knew people would not take kindly to it. And there is a precedent of production meddling with the reunion show to avoid criticism or awkwardness (see, Caramoan). So my guess is that the short reunion was by design. Usually the reunion consists of Jeff playing out hypothetical alternatives with the jury. I think the last thing he wanted to do was say “jury, if the final 3 was Devon, Chrissy, and Ryan, who would you have voted for?” ad it would’ve drawn even more attention to the fact that Devon was screwed by an unfair and unpopular twist.

 

[legendkillin]

What was the deal with the after-show reunion only being a half hour? And Probst only talked to 4 people, with Lauren only getting a couple of seconds as a seque into talking about the next season.

They have stopped caring about the reunion since probably the 1st All Stars. Jeff just talks to who is popular with him, the whole audience interaction is when it went downhill.

I wish they did a real reunion show online because the tv one is for advertising next season. Jeff doesn't even have to host they can have someone that wants to go in depth.