The Dark Knight TDK: Standard Action/Comic Book Film?

[BatmanFanatic]

Ironically, I liked Insomina but found Memento boring.

That's pretty funny =)

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Everyone always disagrees with me because I personally didn't like Begins. I know it was well made, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. But I love Batman, Bruce Timm's 14-year cartoon saga from B:TAS to JLU is my favorite thing ever, and Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamil are Batman and Joker, until the end of time.

BUT, a lot of people were pissed about the action. They really did waste a lot of time teaching Cristian Bale how to fight with his elbows. LOL. There was no reason you couldn't show Batman CLEARLY hitting someone, it wouldn't take anything away from the movie.

But hopefully Nolan learned from this, and it looks like he did, because the Dark Night looks to have the same tone, the same type of writing, but just with the best action Batman's had yet. Thank God.

Well, I don't disagree with you. Actually I'm mixed on the subject, but I can clearly see all the flaws in Begins. I very much enjoyed it. I've seen it many, many times. I've made spoofs and short videos out of it. I've seen all the special features. So in short it was a lot of fun for me, but knowing what Nolan is capable of (Memento) it made me sad that Begins wasn't even better.

 

[MaceB]

BB had it's problems. It was still 100 times than other comic book / action flicks, but it's not Spielberg.

Fanatic, I think I love you...except for your appreciation of Spielberg. Uhhh....talk about a man who cares nothing about continuity.

 

[sasquatchs]

That's a good example, but if you're comparing Nolans work to other crappy comic book franchises, of course it will look like sheer genius. I think people really need to see a lot more films before they decide Nolan is the best thing since sliced bread. Because, there were plenty of corny monologues ... Bruce "explaining" all his reasons, Ra "explaining all of his reasons", Bruce whimpering after the fire / Alfred cheering him up, Rachels final lines in the film, there was a lot of clunky exposition and in-your-face themes. It's much better to show than to tell in a script. They did a lot of "telling" to the audience.

And that's ignoring the horrid one liners, the microwave emitter, and the disasterous filming of the fight sequences.

All stuff you couldn't usually accuse Nolan of, it's what made BB feel so un-Nolany to me and a bit of a disappointment. It does its job ok but doesn't go much further

 

[Anita18]

That's a good example, but if you're comparing Nolans work to other crappy comic book franchises, of course it will look like sheer genius. I think people really need to see a lot more films before they decide Nolan is the best thing since sliced bread.

Well the question was if BB was your average comic book film, and the majority of people who saw it said it was not - it transcended the genre, at least a little. I won't disagree that the third act returns to typical-comic-book-movie mode. But the first half definitely strived to be something more.

The thing is that Spielberg has never directed a comic book movie. So until he does, we can't say if Spielberg could do it leagues better than Nolan. IMO Memento and Prestige are films with just as much integrity as any Spielberg film. I can't wait for Nolan to make some more movies, since he's only just getting started. Should be a real treat.

Anyways, I think that Nolan is pretty pigeonholed with what he can do with the Batman character, since it's supposed to be a PG-13 comic book movie with certain formulaic principles. I don't think for a moment that DC and WB would allow him to really go all out and Memento-fy Batman. I'm sure it would be a fantastic movie, but it won't happen, ever.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

All stuff you couldn't usually accuse Nolan of, it's what made BB feel so un-Nolany to me and a bit of a disappointment. It does its job ok but doesn't go much further

Yah. Exactly. I mean you kind of expect more from Nolan.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Fanatic, I think I love you...except for your appreciation of Spielberg. Uhhh....talk about a man who cares nothing about continuity.

Orson Welles then =) And I do like Spielberg. Amistad and Schindler's List have to be some of the most amazing films I've seen.

 

[MaceB]

The thing is that Spielberg has never directed a comic book movie. So until he does, we can't say if Spielberg could do it leagues better than Nolan. IMO Memento and Prestige are films with just as much integrity as any Spielberg film. I can't wait for Nolan to make some more movies, since he's only just getting started. Should be a real treat.

Right on. Spielberg has done some really sweet stuff, so I can't bag on him too much, but sometimes I think he is a better entertainer than an actual storyteller. I trust his movies to be really emotive and gripping, but I don't trust them to be nearly as mindful or calculated as Nolan's work. IMO

Even though I am an admitted Nolan fanatic...I'm really trying to keep my expectations low for TDK. That's what wrecks comic films in the first place; people say that there's not enough action, or that there is too much action, or that it should have been like this comic or that cartoon or whatever....

If - as fans - we don't require superhero films to be a particular way, maybe we won't get so many sterile, formulaic adaptations from the production houses. Our only demand should be for quality.

 

[MaceB]

Orson Welles then =)

Now you're speaking my language. t:

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Well the question was if BB was your average comic book film, and the majority of people who saw it said it was not - it transcended the genre, at least a little. I won't disagree that the third act returns to typical-comic-book-movie mode. But the first half definitely strived to be something more.

The thing is that Spielberg has never directed a comic book movie. So until he does, we can't say if Spielberg could do it leagues better than Nolan. IMO Memento and Prestige are films with just as much integrity as any Spielberg film. I can't wait for Nolan to make some more movies, since he's only just getting started. Should be a real treat.

Anyways, I think that Nolan is pretty pigeonholed with what he can do with the Batman character, since it's supposed to be a PG-13 comic book movie with certain formulaic principles. I don't think for a moment that DC and WB would allow him to really go all out and Memento-fy Batman. I'm sure it would be a fantastic movie, but it won't happen, ever.

The thing is, Spielberg never would do a comic book movie (probably) because he's more interested in original ideas. Movies like AI, Minority Report, ET, Close Encounters...that's his own vision. He's an amazing writer as well.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Right on. Spielberg has done some really sweet stuff, so I can't bag on him too much, but sometimes I think he is a better entertainer than an actual storyteller. I trust his movies to be really emotive and gripping, but I don't trust them to be nearly as mindful or calculated as Nolan's work. IMO

Even though I am an admitted Nolan fanatic...I'm really trying to keep my expectations low for TDK. That's what wrecks comic films in the first place; people say that there's not enough action, or that there is too much action, or that it should have been like this comic or that cartoon or whatever....

If - as fans - we don't require superhero films to be a particular way, maybe we won't get so many sterile, formulaic adaptations from the production houses. Our only demand should be for quality.

Well *I* don't require them to be a certain way. I'm just an oddity. I mean, I really could handle a well written Superman movie where all that happens is Superman questioning his chosen place as "savior" of humanity. Or some other superhero wondering what the best use of their powers is. Or Batman going to a shrink and working through his anger issues.... lol. Kind of reminds me of The Thomas Crown Affair now =)

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Now you're speaking my language. t:

Oh yah baby t:

 

[Anita18]

The thing is, Spielberg never would do a comic book movie (probably) because he's more interested in original ideas. Movies like AI, Minority Report, ET, Close Encounters...that's his own vision. He's an amazing writer as well.

Eh, the ideas don't have to be original, they just have to be good. Three of the most acclaimed films this year are adaptations: No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, and Atonement.

Spielberg was getting pretty close to the brainless-action-movie-genre by producing Transformers, though. And he didn't write a lot of his more famous films, but it doesn't mean that he's a bad writer. He just doesn't do it as often.

 

[BubbaGump]

The thing is, Spielberg never would do a comic book movie (probably) because he's more interested in original ideas. Movies like AI, Minority Report, ET, Close Encounters...that's his own vision. He's an amazing writer as well.

Minority Report was originally a short story by Philip K. Dick.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Eh, the ideas don't have to be original, they just have to be good. Three of the most acclaimed films this year are adaptations: No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, and Atonement.

Spielberg was getting pretty close to the brainless-action-movie-genre by producing Transformers, though. And he didn't write a lot of his more famous films, but it doesn't mean that he's a bad writer. He just doesn't do it as often.

I don't see what you produce has to do with anything. Producing is just a business investment decision. If you think a mindless popcorn flick will make money, you produce it. Hell, I would produce a Jackass movie, because I know it costs nothing and enough stupid people will see it. That doesn't reflect my tastes as a writer and director.

And the best films this year... supposedly... are not much to go by. Some years are just really bad for American films. Lets talk about the best films since films started...like, the AFI top 100 or 400 films.

But I guess back to the topic, I'm not expecting a "standard" comic movie with TDK for some reason... I just think Nolan has a lot of leeway and he's going to take it. Just right off the bat, most comic movies are not that dark, and this should be.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Minority Report was originally a short story by Philip K. Dick.

I know that, the two parts of the sentence werent referring to one another =) He wrote AI and Close Encounters.

 

[Damiean Dark]

Yah. Exactly. I mean you kind of expect more from Nolan.

Nolans best film is memento imo BB and batfilms in general really are not that hard to do imo the story really writes itself with all the material out there all Nolan, Burton, ect had to do is flesh out the characters to the screen.

 

[Anita18]

I don't see what you produce has to do with anything. Producing is just a business investment decision. If you think a mindless popcorn flick will make money, you produce it. Hell, I would produce a Jackass movie, because I know it costs nothing and enough stupid people will see it. That doesn't reflect my tastes as a writer and director.

And the best films this year... supposedly... are not much to go by. Some years are just really bad for American films. Lets talk about the best films since films started...like, the AFI top 100 or 400 films.

Ah, so you're old school. Have you read some of these reviews for No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood, though?

I haven't seen either film, btw. I save my money to go to the theater for event movies. I thoroughly enjoyed The Godfather and Close Encounters of the Third Kind on DVD in their old-school glory.

And when I see that a movie is produced by Jerry Bruckheimer, I don't exactly expect a thought-provoking film. People associate the name Spielberg with quality, whether he's directing or not.

 

[peteagassi]

This is not an action driven film. This is a Chris Nolan film; a film that will be smart, character driven, and beautiful to look at. Let's not forget, this is the same man that brought us 'Memento.' He doesn't make silly action movies. And I think Batman offers something a little more than just action. Batman is a complex character.

 

[peteagassi]

An example is Batman Begins. If you look beneath all the car chases and explosions, and strip all that away, there is a really smart, personal, emotional story there. Something i've never seen in a comic book genre. To me, Burton and Nolan made history. But, for my money, I would label Nolan's 'Batman Begins' as the superior film. What Nolan did, that was just brilliant, was he made the character believeable. He did this by removing the notion of revenge.; he took that away from Bruce Wayne, therefore he can't purge his thirst for revenge. This leads him to vent all that frustration in the bat alter ego.

 

[Conebone69]

An example is Batman Begins. If you look beneath all the car chases and explosions, and strip all that away, there is a really smart, personal, emotional story there. Something i've never seen in a comic book genre. To me, Burton and Nolan made history. But, for my money, I would label Nolan's 'Batman Begins' as the superior film. What Nolan did, that was just brilliant, was he made the character believeable. He did this by removing the notion of revenge.; he took that away from Bruce Wayne, therefore he can't purge his thirst for revenge. This leads him to vent all that frustration in the bat alter ego.

Bravo And im afraid TDK isnt gonna be like that ^

 

[Mee]

Im really concerned that TDK will be a standard action/comic book type film. Batman Begins was no ordinary superhero movie, like it wasnt one of those "standard action/comic book type films," like spider-man for example. I think that is one of the reasons why alot of people liked BB was because of that. I know thats one reason why I thought it was great and seperated itself from the others. And if TDK does the opposite then I think its gonna loose some of the general public and not be as good. Does anyone know what im talkin about?

I think the general public prefers the "standard." Look at all the money the Spidey movies made, and they all had virtually the same plot.

Here's Peter, trouble with Mary Jane, creation of bad guy, bad guy captures Mary Jane, Spidey saves her and bad guy dies.

Rinse and repeat.


But I don't see this being standard or generic.

 

[Conebone69]

I think the general public prefers the "standard." Look at all the money the Spidey movies made, and they all had virtually the same plot.

Here's Peter, trouble with Mary Jane, creation of bad guy, bad guy captures Mary Jane, Spidey saves her and bad guy dies.

Rinse and repeat.


But I don't see this being standard or generic.

Yeah, actually your right

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Yeah, actually your right

Yes, this film will be different from Spidy "parts 1 2 and 3" and all films in that type of genre ... (the comic book in a box movie) but how different we wont know for a while...

Nolan always seems to do something with twists and depth, at least in part even if not in whole. I think this film will be a lot darker than most comic book ones, I think it has a crazy amount of action from all the spoilers we know about and I think the Joker character will be unlike anything we've seen on screen yet... closest possibly to Hannibal.

 

[deathfromabove]

The thing is that Spielberg has never directed a comic book movie. So until he does, we can't say if Spielberg could do it leagues better than Nolan. IMO Memento and Prestige are films with just as much integrity as any Spielberg film. I can't wait for Nolan to make some more movies, since he's only just getting started. Should be a real treat.

he did. raiders of the lost ark (which nolan sites as an ispiration for the kind of movie he wanted begins to be).

That's a good example, but if you're comparing Nolans work to other crappy comic book franchises, of course it will look like sheer genius. I think people really need to see a lot more films before they decide Nolan is the best thing since sliced bread.

are you really that condescending? do you think you are the only person to take a film class on here? the hype represents some of the most well versed film watchers anywhere. which brings me to my last point...

The thing is, Spielberg never would do a comic book movie (probably) because he's more interested in original ideas. Movies like AI, Minority Report, ET, Close Encounters...that's his own vision. He's an amazing writer as well.

please, as someone so well versed in film, tell me which of these movies were written by stephen speilberg from an original idea he came up with.

(hint: its not the one based on the short story by brain aldiss that kubrick (ironic, no?) toiled over or the one based on a phillip k dick novel...)