Terror attack in Copenhagen

[Steyin]

Gunmen fired on a cafe in Copenhagen as it hosted a free speech event Saturday, killing one man in a likely terror attack, Danish authorities said. The event was organized by Swedish artist Lars Vilks, who has faced numerous threats after caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad.

A second shooting occurred about 10 hours later at a synagogue. It is not clear if the two events are related.

All in all 2 dead and 5 injured.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/14/europe/denmark-shooting/index.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31475803


First France, now this. Sickening.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The frequency of these attacks does seem to be increasing, not to mention the scope. Canada, Australia, France, now Denmark. Well, Denmark again, I suppose.

I guess this really isn't such a surprise, given that this is where the original cartoon outrage started.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

And there was the foiled plot in Belgium. And let's not forget London and Madrid in years past. Be warned, I'm about to go on a bit of a rant….

America doesn't have an extremist Islamic problem (or at least not anymore; we did a good job cleaning house after 9/11). But Europe certainly does. This isn't about ordinary Muslims, but the unassimilated, radicalized Wahhabists in their midst. The radicalized extremists are a minority, and of course no one should blame ordinary Muslims for the attacks like those extremist-right parties do in Germany; but on the other hand, I also get sick of the false equivalences some on the left use to try to deny this problem exists by bringing up the fact that Christian shooters also exist. Yes, but they're lone nuts who are shunned by everyone, even fellow political/religious extremists; the problem with radical Islamic terror acts is they are condoned by fellow extremists and seen as justified, such as attacking cartoonists for depicting Muhammed. After the terror attack in Paris, they were discussing on the news about there being 8,000 people on a terror watch-list in France. The thing was there wasn't enough police presence to monitor all of them, so the brothers in that attack slipped through the net. So if you can't monitor them all, why not just deport those on the list back to their native countries (or if they're second-generation/naturalized, place them under house arrest)? I'm sorry but if you're on a terror watch-list, you did something to get on there. I think Europe has to get tougher with its immigration and national security, I think good, law-abiding Muslims (the vast majority) have to confront and report those they suspect of radicalization in their community, and I think people need to be more honest about the cause of all this instead of dismissing them as isolated criminal incidents and getting defensive and evasive when others point out the obvious. Or else nothing will change.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I really think this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I grew up in Europe, and America, and the difference is quite stark. Most Muslims in America openly embrace the culture. But in Europe, it's a different story. In some places it's like a parallel society coexisting in the state.

The stuff on Fox News about "no go zones" was obviously an exaggeration, but not without some truth. Take the sex gang rings in Oxford, Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby, etc. For those not familiar with those controversies, they were sex slavery rings operated in Muslim communities in said English cities, and largely ignored by police because they were in Muslim communities.

I think a lot of it has to do with socioeconomics too.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

*sigh*
Can't they stop looking at those caricatures?
And teach people some useful history about the prophet?

I hope the injured get up and be able to live on.
And my condolences to the families of the deceased.

 

[Greens]

The frequency of these attacks does seem to be increasing, not to mention the scope. Canada, Australia, France, now Denmark. Well, Denmark again, I suppose.

I guess this really isn't such a surprise, given that this is where the original cartoon outrage started.

You're right, but there is a big difference between the attack in France and the others. The attackers in Paris were well funded, well prepared and well trained. This Denmark shooting doesn't seem to be put in motion by higher-ups in the Middle-East. We don't see a lot of coordinated attacks, thankfully.

 

[Steyin]

And there was the foiled plot in Belgium. And let's not forget London and Madrid in years past. Be warned, I'm about to go on a bit of a rant….

America doesn't have an extremist Islamic problem (or at least not anymore; we did a good job cleaning house after 9/11). But Europe certainly does. This isn't about ordinary Muslims, but the unassimilated, radicalized Wahhabists in their midst. The radicalized extremists are a minority, and of course no one should blame ordinary Muslims for the attacks like those extremist-right parties do in Germany; but on the other hand, I also get sick of the false equivalences some on the left use to try to deny this problem exists by bringing up the fact that Christian shooters also exist. Yes, but they're lone nuts who are shunned by everyone, even fellow political/religious extremists; the problem with radical Islamic terror acts is they are condoned by fellow extremists and seen as justified, such as attacking cartoonists for depicting Muhammed. After the terror attack in Paris, they were discussing on the news about there being 8,000 people on a terror watch-list in France. The thing was there wasn't enough police presence to monitor all of them, so the brothers in that attack slipped through the net. So if you can't monitor them all, why not just deport those on the list back to their native countries (or if they're second-generation/naturalized, place them under house arrest)? I'm sorry but if you're on a terror watch-list, you did something to get on there. I think Europe has to get tougher with its immigration and national security, I think good, law-abiding Muslims (the vast majority) have to confront and report those they suspect of radicalization in their community, and I think people need to be more honest about the cause of all this instead of dismissing them as isolated criminal incidents and getting defensive and evasive when others point out the obvious. Or else nothing will change.

I agree. I also think that something fueling the fire of those making generalizations against Muslims is the lack of condemnation/speaking up against these extremist attacks, or at least the failure by the media to report on any condemnation by the Muslim community. I rarely, if ever, see or hear about any Muslim leaders, or citizens for that matter, speaking out against such acts. I can therefore see why people would feel that either they are too scared to say anything or that their lack of response is, in a way, a silent means of agreement of said attacks. Now I know that is a big and poor assumption, but when we have protests against cops for killing blacks or rallies/strong fighting for gay rights going on, where is the uproar from Muslims against these extremists been? Again, I blame the media for not reporting it, if it exists, which I'm sure it does.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'm sorry, but you have to be willfully plugging your ears and going "la la la" to be unaware that moderate Muslims condemn incidents such as these. That is a tired old passive-aggressive way of demeaning Muslim communities as a whole, and is becoming tiresome. The media does cover the opposition from moderate Muslims, but it's not in the front pages because it has to compete for attention with the investigation and enforcement issues, which to be honest are really important. If you still believe that moderate Muslims don't condemn attacks like these, you need to pay closer attention to how you consume your news information. Try clicking through to more than just the first 2-3 stories you see on a given subject.

 

[PacificBoy]

There have been protests againsts ISIS and the like. For example last year in Germany.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-prote...trate-against-islamic-state-murderers-1466327

 

[Pink Ranger]

There have been protests againsts ISIS and the like. For example last year in Germany.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-prote...trate-against-islamic-state-murderers-1466327

Nope, derp derp derp, all I saw in that link was a preview of Avengers 2: Age of Ultron and nothing else. Moderate Muslims do nothing to speak out terrorism. I'm right, and I'll always be right. Derpity derp derp 'murica.

 

[PacificBoy]

Nope, derp derp derp, all I saw in that link was a preview of Avengers 2: Age of Ultron and nothing else. Moderate Muslims do nothing to speak out terrorism. I'm right, and I'll always be right. Derpity derp derp 'murica.

I had to double check my link. t:

 

[The Endless]

Moderate Muslims need to do more than just condemn these extremists though i feel. They need to be actively fighting against them (not actual physically fighting/going to war). I'm talking about educating the younger generations. Having support groups for those who are vulnerable to lets say "brain washing" by these radical clerics.

People say it has nothing to do with religion. Rubbish. It has EVERYTHING to do with religion. The people committing these atrocities are motivated by Islam. Whether they are being misguided and brain washed or misinterpreting their religion doesn't matter. The moderate Muslims, the good Muslims need to shout louder, they need to become more active. Frankly, they need to help clean up this mess because non Muslims can't do it. These radicals see Christians or Jews opposing them... it's giving them more motivation. But if they see their fellow Muslims making more of a stand and doing more than just condemning these attacks they might actually start to have second thoughts.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Here, you don't even have to leave this website.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=30654537&postcount=73


Then again, this is Canada, where moderate Muslims work with law enforcement and law enforcement works with Muslims. Where major terrorist attacks have been foiled here at the planning stage. Where Muslims are integrated and treated like everyone else. Where they are not discriminated into desperation and marginalized poverty like in Europe. Or have to deal with day-to-day good ole boy justice like in the USA.

But yeah, it's all on them. They're still not doing enough, they will never do enough.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Thanks for PR, PR.

@The Endless: We work on placing the anger of the radicals in check, some of them choose to (against our constant guiding and advising) go to the radical path and call us infidels in their burst of rage.


I pray these cartoonists start feeling disgust whenever they attempt to insult the way they do under the name of "freedom of speech", and subtly satire something else instead of fueling more fire, satire stuff that need to be changed.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Either you believe in it, or you don't.

 

[Feenix]

I pray these cartoonists start feeling disgust whenever they attempt to insult the way they do under the name of "freedom of speech", and subtly satire something else instead of fueling more fire, satire stuff that need to be changed.

I disagree. They don't have to feel disgusted because some people are offended by their satire. If they stop because of fear, then the extremists have successfully suppressed free speech.

Also, Pink Ranger is right on the money.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I believe in freedom of speech.
I believe in limits and restrictions that do not hinder the freedom, but still keep obvious insults in check.
And I believe in self control.

I disagree. They don't have to feel disgusted because some people are offended by their satire. If they stop because of fear, then the extremists have successfully suppressed free speech.

Also, Pink Ranger is right on the money.

What about the non-extremists who do not like that sort of the satire?

 

[Spitfire]

There was a protest in London on February 9th 2015 by thousands of muslims about the offence caused by the Charlie cartoon and asking the British Government to take action against future similar publications. The shootings in Paris took place on the 14th January, not even a month had passed. I would call this both disrespectful and misguided.

Would most of the protesters describe themselves as ordinary and moderate muslims? Probably. While they may not support the violence of the extremists, they do support some of their causes (e.g. introducing Sharia law etc.). The UK is one of the oldest democracies in the world, and our culture includes freedom of speech.

Saying the ideology of Islam has nothing to do with the atrocities of recent years is similar to claiming the philosophy of communism didn't play a role in the Cold War.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I believe in freedom of speech.
I believe in limits and restrictions that do not hinder the freedom, but still keep obvious insults in check.
And I believe in self control.

Oh that is a slippery slope we have gone down one time too many.

 

[Feenix]

Keeping "obvious insults" in check is a slippery slope. You don't have the right to demand someone have self control because you're offended by what they say.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Thanks for PR, PR.

@The Endless: We work on placing the anger of the radicals in check, some of them choose to (against our constant guiding and advising) go to the radical path and call us infidels in their burst of rage.


I pray these cartoonists start feeling disgust whenever they attempt to insult the way they do under the name of "freedom of speech", and subtly satire something else instead of fueling more fire, satire stuff that need to be changed.

The ironic thing is, truth be told, I do not like Islam as a religion that much. I recognize that it is the most harshly anti-gay of the already anti-gay Abrahamic religions. And while all organized religions mainly exist as a way of cementing the economic power of a select few men, and oppressing women, poorer men and others by occupying them with ceremony and irrational belief, Islam does that in such an obvious way it is comically tragic. And I believe Islam needs to evolve, including the idolatry belief. That a religion cannot deal with the visual depiction of an actual, existing historical figure, that needs to change (here, this smiley face is a picture of Muhammed when he learned that Spider-Man is part of the MCU ).

All that stated, I will not let ignorance go by unchallenged, and attacks against Muslim people, either directly or by spreading passive-aggressive half-truths and repeatedly moving goalposts are unacceptable in my eyes.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I'm sorry, but you have to be willfully plugging your ears and going "la la la" to be unaware that moderate Muslims condemn incidents such as these. That is a tired old passive-aggressive way of demeaning Muslim communities as a whole, and is becoming tiresome. The media does cover the opposition from moderate Muslims, but it's not in the front pages because it has to compete for attention with the investigation and enforcement issues, which to be honest are really important. If you still believe that moderate Muslims don't condemn attacks like these, you need to pay closer attention to how you consume your news information. Try clicking through to more than just the first 2-3 stories you see on a given subject.

I think we have to be careful about what we say here. Muslims aren't a monolithic bloc. Some societies and countries (usually the more liberal ones) have been stronger in condemning and marginalizing the extremists among them than others. So I think it's possible not to blame or generalize all Muslims, but at the same time make the point that more could be done. Israel has done itself no favors on the international scene, but does that excuse the Palestinian terrorities from showing kid's shows which depict Jews as evil? In fact anti-semitism is rampant throughout the Middle East (and sometimes this is downplayed as merely anti-zionism or anti-Israel sentiments, but then what explains the straight-out-of-Germany-1930's editorial cartoons that regularly appear in Egyptian and Saudi newspapers?). This prejudice fuels hatred among the youth, which we saw again on display with an attack on a Synagogue only a month after a Kosher deli was attacked in Paris. So yes, more could be done by at least *some* of the more conservative Muslim communities. A start could be moving past the ugly anti-semitism that has been so prevalent for so long (and believe me, I'm in no way absolving Israel; they've often fanned the flames through their government's actions…. but this goes beyond that, and I think is the dark heart of Islamic terrorism).

 

[Pink Ranger]

What about the non-extremists who do not like that sort of the satire?

Protest, that is your right. Christians protested The Last Temptation of Christ. They protested Jesus Christ Superstar. They protest every artistic criticism of their religion, no matter how richly, richly deserved.

Any non-Muslim who equates such peaceful yet strong protest with being on the same "slippery slope" as terrorism is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Likewise, any Muslim who believes the freedom to protest is also freedom from ridicule over some of the religion's more irrational beliefs is also wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Thundercrack85]

What about the non-extremists who do not like that sort of the satire?

You indignantly say "well, I never!" and pick up a different newspaper.

 

[redhawk23]

edit.