Terry Gilliam: I hated Black Panther

Discussion in 'Black Panther' started by RockSP, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. RockSP MYTH SMITH ˆž∞!!!

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  2. Melpardus Registered

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    Old white guy (who from what I can tell has no particular knowledge about African cultures or politics) gets mad at black filmmaker for trying to make an aspirational depiction of an uncolonized African country, then claims "my movies make people think."
     
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  3. Shinobi Shaw The Black King of THC

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    I’m really beginning to believe that a lot of these white, old school directors are really hating these Disney/Marvel movies because they promote diverse casts and stories that aren’t all white like in the old days.

    Adding to the fact that these movies are making billions and have no signs of stopping, it’s scaring them to death.
     
  4. Filmfreak Registered

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    I don't know whether Gilliam has any knowledge on the subject or whether he is right about his comments on the movie but I do know two things.

    1) It has nothing to do with Mavel or Disney. He's been vocal with his disagreements and criticism on other Hollywood movies since long before the MCU was even conceived.
    2) Believing that black Americans must automatically know more about the African cutlure than an English white guy just because they happen to share the same or similar skin colour is completely incomprehensible to me.
     
  5. RockSP MYTH SMITH ˆž∞!!!

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    What "knowledge" could he possibly have? Wakanda is an imaginary place. As for him being "right"...I assume you mean right as in the people who made the film never visiting Africa? If that is what you meant, then the answer is no...he was wrong. The director Ryan Coogler and the composer both spent time there. Design elements for the various Wakandan tribes were taken from actual African countries.

    Gilliam is from America. But that doesn't matter really because regardless of his country of origin his complaints had nothing to do with knowing about African culture (and different African countries have different cultures, it should go without saying). He said "It gives young black kids the idea that this is something to believe in. Bulls**t. It’s utter bulls**t" So he is somehow inexplicably upset that black kids will possibly like and/or be inspired by this superhero movie? It's an impossible stance to take seriously.
     
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  6. Filmfreak Registered

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    I really have no interest in taking a stand and support a side here. My points were simple. Thinking that he follows a trend of dissing Marvel when he's critical about any sort of movies for decades now is just not accurate. Believing that someone has more knowledge about a whole different culture, let alone a fictional one like you pointed out, based on skin colour alone is even more inaccurate.

    For one, people need to understand that it's easier to talk about something popular without necessarily having an agenda against it. It has more of a chance to be brought to your attention compared to an unknown property and it's something that will be asked and shared more so than talking about an indie film that barely anyone knows or cares about.

    And I rarely agree with his comments on other people's movies anyway, but he is (was) a very talented filmmaker and I at least respect his honesty. That's not to say that you should too. Or that you don't make fair points on what you say against his criticism. My disagreement is with the unecessary focus on the skin colour that other people made to dismiss his comments. It's just not an argument that holds any basis.
     
  7. PunyGod Astronomer

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    He is whining just like Scorcese that no one wants to make his movies anymore.

    Kind of ironic because there are more avenues for releasing movies now than ever. Scorcese was simultaneously releasing a movie on Netflix while he was making comments about how no one wants to make his movies.


    [​IMG]
     
  8. Dr. Unknown Toronto member

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    I saw Black Panther rather late - after all the hype, stellar reviews, box office dominance and rumors of multiple Oscars. And I was… underwhelmed. It wasn’t a bad movie by any means*; and unlike Mr. Gilliam, I certainly didn’t hate it. I just thought it had a generic, boilerplate superhero storyline.

    However, Gilliam’s comment about BP’s idealism being somehow toxic to black youth is a head scratcher. White fantasy characters like Superman, Harry Potter, et. al. - idealized and unrealistic heroes for m/billions of kids - should, in theory, be just as concerning. Yet Gilliam singles out BP:thf:



    * And much, much better than Aquaman. ;nd
     
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  9. BoredGuy Never Did a Popular Thing

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    Oh, didn't realize Gilliam had a movie coming out... that's the only reason to say some dumb s*** like this right, following the Scorsese playbook...?

    It has nothing to do with skin color
    could be the fact that a good amount of the cast and crew are actually from Africa?
    John Kani, Lupita, Danai, they all may know just a teensy bit more about Africa than Terry Gilliam
     
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  10. Closerframe Registered

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    Gilliam lost his mojo long ago, and although he's continued to criticize comic book movies over the last decade, these new comments are concerning. As others have summed up, he's essentially saying Black Panther is giving black children the wrong message about Africa? As if the entire continent and the thousands of cultures and languages spoken operate as a single monolith. This is coming from a guy who hasn't had a single person of color have a major role in any of his films besides Benicio Del Toro.
     
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  11. Filmfreak Registered

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    This post brought it up and I was replying to that argument. Never said I dissagree with any of the rest but thanks for the info.
     
  12. BoredGuy Never Did a Popular Thing

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    I wasn't replying to Mel, I was responding to you
    you said, essentially "skin color doesn't mean that you automatically know more about a foreign continent than someone of another color"

    which is perfectly true and accurate, wasn't arguing with you, just changing directions

    My point was Gilliam is incorrect (not you), because various cast and crew members have spent time or even lived in Africa
    So regardless of anyone's skin color, the cast and crew of BP know a s**t-ton more about Africa than Terry Gilliam, due to experience alone, not melanin levels
     
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  13. Marvel united Omega level Mutant

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    Except Ryan Coogler is literally black and went to Africa to study the different types of culture for his film. As did many members of the crew. Some are FROM Africa.

    Selfish, self-centered take on his part. Black children need heroes that they can look to that reflect themselves. T'Challa gives them that and Terry has a problem with it because it's not "realistic". His opinion on how Africa should be represented frankly does not matter to me
     
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  14. Melpardus Registered

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    I didn't use the terms white and black as descriptors of skin color, but rather as a connotation of cultural experience. That's part of why I qualified "Old white man" with "(who from what I can tell has no particular knowledge about African cultures or politics)"; there's plenty of white people who know some stuff about Africa from having either lived there or studied some aspect of it, and I'd be more inclined to give them some amount of deference accordingly if they had a similar but more knowledgeable take. But as I said, I don't see anything about Gilliam's record that indicates he really has any such knowledge, yet in the interview he's placed himself as some arbiter for A) what constitutes proper African-ness and B) what black children should be inspired by. I wish they'd asked him what exactly he thinks is appropriately realistic and inspirational for black children to see.
     
  15. Chesterfield Registered

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    So this old white dude thinks he's an authority to dictate what young black kids should be looking at to aspire to...yeah, he's a moron.
     
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  16. Zyraquis Registered

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    I think he was promoting his movie “The Man Who Killed Don Quixote” in the UK and this comment came from an interview with an UK media. The movie will be released in the UK and Ireland late January (pretty much the last markets) after bombing really hard elsewhere, grossing like US$2m on a 17m euro budget. He needs to make headlines, and saying his new movie that has been soundly rejected by the world is coming soon won’t get as much attention as bashing and hating MCU movies.
     
  17. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    In all honestly I wouldn't give a crap about any of this, just the new normal ON BOTH SIDES where grumpy assed fans get to clash with grumpy assed old film makers.

    Lather rinse, and repeat...

    Again...

    Again...

    And AGAIN!


    But the **** he said about young people of African descent... I hope he was just being really ****ing inelegant in some point he was trying to make, whatever the **** that was.

    Does he think, say... The average Black teen or young adult in the U.S. doesn't realize the Black Panther film was somehow reflective of the realities of life on the African continent and will go on living beliving in... The Power of vibranium or something? They'll go looking for... Wakanda or something?

    Is it the way that the film lays out in no uncertain terms, in a super hero story mind you, that the history, known by it's audience, of the world's interactions with the continent and her people has often been one where others got rich off of the riches of the land and the bodies and blood of the native population? Is he worried... They've never read a ****ing history book?


    Look... I get it. He knows that cinema and media are powerful forces in world culture. People do beleive a lot of stupid **** because they saw it in a movie. Fine... But BP isn't some film like that. It's obviously fantasy, and the fantasy elements are very easy to distinguish from the real world commentary and themes that are also in the film.


    If one is charitable to his comments... They were just stupid ramblings.

    If one is not... There's some implications to what he said that... It's not a good look for him let's just say.
     

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