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The 2012 Presidential Debates: Vice-Presidential Debate

Biden gets these rare moments of clarity where he comes off super smart.

Palin underestimated him. I hope Ryan does too.
 
Biden gets these rare moments of clarity where he comes off super smart.

Palin underestimated him. I hope Ryan does too.

Ryan has made it clear in his interviews that will not be underestimating him...he knows him well.
 
Biden needs to do well, but he cannot kill it either. Obama needs Romney to have sky high expectations going into the next debate.

Obamas lead in polls following the debate has shrank, but its still held. The bleeding needs to be stopped, and that starts with Biden.
 
Personally, I want Ryan to lose big. I'd feel the same if he was a Dem, Libertarian, Green, or any other party. It's just like last election, as down as I was on McCain, and am on Romney, I like Palin, and Ryan far less. Aside from definitely not being a fan of what little political record Ryan has, nor liking his biggest "achievement" the Ryan plan, I find him smug, and hypocritical (which I know most politicians are). It's just that his thing is cutting entitlements, but he lived on, and went to college because of social security. It may be petty, but I'd like to see him knocked down a peg, and gain some humility

I would say you have a solid point IF Ryan or Romney were opposed to ALL entitlements including those deemed a safety net. I think you know they aren't, but want to pretend they do out of political spite. Living on the survivors benefit of SS is vastly different than being third generation welfare families becuase you know you can just have a few kids and sign up for the freebies.
 
I would say you have a solid point IF Ryan or Romney were opposed to ALL entitlements including those deemed a safety net. I think you know they aren't, but want to pretend they do out of political spite. Living on the survivors benefit of SS is vastly different than being third generation welfare families becuase you know you can just have a few kids and sign up for the freebies.

Political spite? Am I running against him for office? Did he run over my dog? There's a difference from wanting to see someone you see as being hypocrital getting a reality check, and...well political "spite". You talk like Ryan is only going after the "bad" entitlement programs....Or like I view Welfare, and Social Security as being the same program...No offense meant, but either you're reading into things I didn't say, or I didn't explain well enough (which would be my bad).

This just kinda confuses me, because the tone makes me think you think Ryan doesn't want to touch Social Security. Actually Ryan has pushed to privatize Social Security as well, in a similar manner that to what Bush wanted (that was shot down in flames). Ryan's made much of his career about changing entitlement, and other government run programs that benefit middle, and lower income house holds. In most cases it ends up being shown that the changes put a larger burden on the beneficiaries. So yes, I find it hypocritical that a man who was able to eat, and go to college because of Social Security would want to diminish it, and then go on to nearly wipe out things like Medicare, and Medicade.

However I'm not dissing him for receiving it, nor SS survivors benefits, I'm glad it helped him. It just confuses me why someone who benefited from something in a life changing, positive way, would want to fundamentally alter, or dismantle it.
 
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Ryan is just going to absolutely smash Biden.
 
They'll both do fine. Won't matter since the numbers will plummet compared to the first debate. It's up against NFL and MLB games and, let's face it, this is about Obama v. Romney.
 
Biden isn't a whip...he's the fun grandpa. Ryan is going to run circles around Biden. You know Obama fugged up when MSNBC and the left are looking to Biden to turn things around.
 
Ryan is just going to absolutely smash Biden.
Hardly. Go watch Biden's old C-SPAN videos, he's great in debates. He's never been very good before crowds, or when giving a structured speech (so bad, in fact, he plagiarized a speech). Ryan is very sheepish though, and precisely the kind of person Biden used to rip apart in the Halls of Congress.
 
Yeah, Biden is a better debater than Obama, but Biden has a huge problem with putting his foot in his mouth....a lot. And Ryan is a very intelligent person as well.
Not in debates though. The gaffes are mostly to the press and in front of crowds, in debates he's pretty much a different person. During the torture hearings for example.
 
A lot of people underestimated Romney's debating skills,and they'll do the same with Ryan.
 
I personally do not expect either side to do all that well. Democrats will say Biden won. Republicans will say Ryan won. Independents will be turned off by both due to the attack dog nature of the modern VP position.
 
Not in debates though. The gaffes are mostly to the press and in front of crowds, in debates he's pretty much a different person. During the torture hearings for example.

But Bidden has never had this much pressure on him before. The campaign that has derided him as a buffoon now depends on him to stop the bleeding and this time, he won't be debating a ******.
 
Hardly. Go watch Biden's old C-SPAN videos, he's great in debates. He's never been very good before crowds, or when giving a structured speech (so bad, in fact, he plagiarized a speech). Ryan is very sheepish though, and precisely the kind of person Biden used to rip apart in the Halls of Congress.

He couldn't even not stumble through his DNC speech a couple of weeks ago. He was awful. How do you bomb TelePrompter speeches? Nobody is great at unrehearsed debates but bad at TelePrompter speeches...because then what's the point of the prompter? Biden nowadays is a gaffe machine. He's the folksy old grandpa. I don't think he will help Obama in the polls at all. Nobody looks to Biden as the crutch for Obama like they did Ryan to reinvigorate a boring Romney.
 
I have no idea what should be made of this debate.

-Obama clings to a tiny lead, but has totally lost momentum. A strong performance from Biden would help slow the Romney momentum.

-On the other hand, Obama has the benefits of both puny expectations AND small lead heading into the next debate - a pretty good set up for him. Should Biden kill it, it could just heighten the expectations for O in round 2 with Mitt, which would be a bad thing for his campaign.

-Biden could ignore Romney, and debate Ryan for who Ryan is. The chances, however, of undecideds loving Biden enough to vote for O seem low, while the chances of a gaffe by Biden will be higher if he goes full on attack mode.

-Biden could debate Romney, and act is Ryan and Romney are the same person. This could slow Romneys momentum if done effectively.

And make no mistake - Joe Biden is a world class insult hurler. He is a top form attack dog who tends overbite or bite the wrong person on occasion. IF Biden can connect, it could do a lot of good. The potential is just there for gaffes, and too strong of a performance may rob Obama of the very low expecs he has going into the next debate.

-Finally, does anyone REALLY care about this debate?

I'm having a hard time figuring out the best strategy for the obama campaign. But I think this is my final conclusion: This is probably the best, and final, time they can publicly use all of Romneys gaffes against him. It may be awkward if Obama uses the 47%, food stamp President, etc remarks against him. We know Ryan will come out attacking the President, and we know Romney will too. This may be the best time for the Democrats to really return to fire. Because Biden is NOT the sitting President, it is more acceptable for him to use the attacks. Because Romney is not there in person, it will be less awkward. IF Biden goes HARD and overwhelms - which he can, Biden has it in him to seem very angry, old wise man esque - it is certainly possible that Ryan will get overwhelmed and MESS UP, or say something bad.

Ideally for the Dems
-Ryan will become overwhelmed and say something incorrect - be it contradicting the recent moderate mitt or making a full blown gaffe of some sort
-The idea that Romney is an out of touch flip flopping elitist will replanted in the brains of peoples heads
-Romneys momentum will be stopped
-The Presidents expectations wont increase.

So thats the way I see it. If I am Joe Biden, I am -almost- acting like Paul Ryan is not there. I am talking to the American people instead of him, AND I am talking about Mitt Romney instead of him. And I am basically repeating Bill Clinton's DNC speech, but adding in a bit more **** talk. Biden himself is so polarizing that he can frankly probably get away with it, because anybody who will really get upset would never have voted for O anyway. Undecided will either listen to him and agree, or think the same thing they thought of him before & remain undecided.
 
But I thought you said Obama won the debate. The PROFESSOR pwNeD the Salesman :woot:

It shouldn't matter if Biden wins or not, since Obama won the debate, no?
 
He couldn't even not stumble through his DNC speech a couple of weeks ago. He was awful. How do you bomb TelePrompter speeches? Nobody is great at unrehearsed debates but bad at TelePrompter speeches...because then what's the point of the prompter? Biden nowadays is a gaffe machine. He's the folksy old grandpa. I don't think he will help Obama in the polls at all. Nobody looks to Biden as the crutch for Obama like they did Ryan to reinvigorate a boring Romney.

Thats not true. Teleprompter were not always the most people thing. Biden practically served with Thomas Jefferson, he has been around FOREVER. He knows the game. He is better off the cuff, town hall style than using teleprompters. He s clearly less comfortable. If there is ONE THING Biden do, it is talk trash.

Dont count him out yet.
 
But I thought you said Obama won the debate. The PROFESSOR pwNeD the Salesman :woot:

It shouldn't matter if Biden wins or not, since Obama won the debate, no?

I didnt say Obama won the debate. I did think he was more substantive than the uber vague Mitt, but it was clear he was getting crushed.
 
Crushed by the awesomeness of his win, over Romney? :woot:
 
I don't think anyone can really predict this debate. That is why I am looking forward to it.
 
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Great my roommate didn't pay the cable bill so now I'm gonna miss the debate tonight. Was really looking forward to it too
 
I'm really looking forward to this debate. The VP debates are usually more aggressive.
 

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