The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - - - - - Part 14

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[Shikamaru]

Well the GA are kinda irreverent if a villain is top-teir IMO. More popular or well-known sure but Ra's is definitely top tier over Catwoman and Two-Face, the public not knowing about him doesn't really change that. The Joker is Batmans "rival" and Ra's his "greatest enemy" kinda like Green Goblin and Doc Ock to Spidey. At least in my eyes.

The Joker is and always will be Batman's greatest enemy. Though I wouldn't consider Ra's to be a rival to Batman, he is closer to being that than the Joker is since he has a certain level of respect for Batman despite being his enemy.

 

[SpideyFan866]

PEOPLE!

Get back on subject. Stop talking about Batman.

That or take it to the Batman threads.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

And yet when you(one person as well) say Ra's isn't top pier, we should believe you? Lol.

Well the GA are kinda irreverent if a villain is top-teir IMO. More popular or well-known sure but Ra's is definitely top tier over Catwoman and Two-Face, the public not knowing about him doesn't really change that. The Joker is Batmans "rival" and Ra's his "greatest enemy" kinda like Green Goblin and Doc Ock to Spidey. At least in my eyes.

I don't think you pay much attention to the comics at all unfortunately. RA'S is always ranked pretty damn high on villain lists

sigh...


Anno and Doc Ock, you realize this is completely irrelevant after my realization that what spideyboy meant by "top-tier" is not popularity but rather "threat-level"

So Anno, your bringing up some random top ten article from some random website a large percentage of us have probably never heard of is less of a legitimate point in our discussion but more of a "Hey pr0xy! Look how i can prove you wrong!"

I agree Ra's is one of Batman's greatest villains, but a couple hours ago I assumed spideyboy was referring to how they can hold their own movie due to their popularity, memorability, and aesthetics. Which is obviously irrelevant anyway, considering Ra's was successfully able to hold his own movie (Batman Begins) and Two-Face wasn't (Batman Forever). Lizard was (ASM) and Venom wasn't (SM3).

 

[Doc Ock]

The Joker is and always will be Batman's greatest enemy. Though I wouldn't consider Ra's to be a rival to Batman, he is closer to being that than the Joker is since he has a certain level of respect for Batman despite being his enemy.

Well I'm trying to term it a certain way. By rival I don't mean being equal but their main enemy. Like Superman to Lex Luthor, with more dangerous or higher level villains like Brainiac/Darkseid to deal with as well. I consider Ra's higher level than the Joker because usually when he is involved something serious to is usually going on compared to what Joker would be doing, not saying what the Joker is doing isnt as serious as Ra's but its different. Like its always hard to choose for Spidey but Green Goblin would be his rival or main enemy and Doc Ock would be the higher level or "greatest enemy" as I labeled it. Greatest enemy was a wrong term to use. Another example I could think of is Baron Zemo being being Cap's main enemy and Red Skull being the "greatest" or higher level threat.

 

[Doc Ock]

PEOPLE!

Get back on subject. Stop talking about Batman.

That or take it to the Batman threads.

Sorry.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

This is frustrating anyway. Considering this conversation is based on a rumor that inspired spideyboy to call me small-minded based on an opinion of mine that was practically commonplace less than a year ago.

Spider-Man 3 had too many villains. They were not given the screentime or respect they deserved.

I don't want ASM2 to have too many villains in order to avoid the same problem. Done.

 

[SymbioticToxin]

Scratch that, already happened.

 

[Shikamaru]

Well I'm trying to term it a certain way. By rival I don't mean being equal but their main enemy. Like Superman to Lex Luthor, with more dangerous or higher level villains like Brainiac/Darkseid to deal with as well. I consider Ra's higher level than the Joker because usually when he is involved something serious to is usually going on compared to what Joker would be doing, not saying what the Joker is doing isnt as serious as Ra's but its different. Like its always hard to choose for Spidey but Green Goblin would be his rival or main enemy and Doc Ock would be the higher level or "greatest enemy" as I labeled it. Greatest enemy was a wrong term to use. Another example I could think of is Baron Zemo being being Cap's main enemy and Red Skull being the "greatest" or higher level threat.

In that case, you are right. Ra's is the only villain out of all the big Batman villains that operates globally as opposed to just in Gotham.

However, I would argue the Green Goblin is Spidey's biggest threat as opposed to Doc Ock. Doc Ock is the most common villain that Spider-Man battles out of all the big villains but the Green Goblin is by far Spider-Man's biggest threat. On top of being a danger to Peter's life in every way possible and has messed with Peter on so many occasions, he is also one of the most powerful businessmen in the country and even gave Tony Stark and the Avengers a run for their money (not that Ock hasn't). If you look at the history of the Spider-Man comics, the Green Goblin isn't there much in comparison to a lot of the other villains but whenever he is there, it is always a big deal and is a huge level of threat. To my knowledge, it is the only exception in comics in which the a superhero's archenemy does not have the highest number of battles with the superhero compared to the other enemies but is still the archenemy nonetheless.

 

[Doc Ock]

This is frustrating anyway. Considering this conversation is based on a rumor that inspired spideyboy to call me small-minded based on an opinion of mine that was practically commonplace less than a year ago.

Spider-Man 3 had too many villains. They were not given the screentime or respect they deserved.

I don't want ASM2 to have too many villains in order to avoid the same problem. Done.

I think it already appears like ASM2 is going to have several villains, but I don't think it will be a repeat of SM3. But I think Rhino won't be a main part of the film.

However, I would argue the Green Goblin is Spidey's biggest threat as opposed to Doc Ock. Doc Ock is the most common villain that Spider-Man battles out of all the big villains but the Green Goblin is by far Spider-Man's biggest threat. On top of being a danger to Peter's life in every way possible and has messed with Peter on so many occasions, he is also one of the most powerful businessmen in the country and even gave Tony Stark and the Avengers a run for their money (not that Ock hasn't). If you look at the history of the Spider-Man comics, the Green Goblin isn't there much in comparison to a lot of the other villains but whenever he is there, it is always a big deal and is a huge level of threat. To my knowledge, it is the only exception in comics in which the a superhero's archenemy does not have the highest number of battles with the superhero compared to the other enemies but is still the archenemy nonetheless.

Yeah I always have difficulty choosing between if GG or Ock is the biggest threat because I always feel like they are swapping places often. GG is usually big news though, but Doc Ock has done some big surprises in the past as well. But Norman Osborn's power and knowledge of Peter Parker does make him the biggest threat, most of the time.

 

[Repulsor Blast]

i highly doubt we will see a goblin vs. spider-man fight in this movie. they'd be blowing their wad before tasm3 even began filming.

also, do you think foxx would be cool with playing second fiddle to chris cooper in the third act?

if gwen does die in this movie, then that makes goblin more likely i suppose, but that itself does not mean we will see him and spidey battle. another possibility, sure to be unpopular, is that electro kills her, but does so via norman's direct influence somehow.

ps. seven webheads is pissed off at Ror, lol.

 

[Anno_Domini]

sigh...


Anno and Doc Ock, you realize this is completely irrelevant after my realization that what spideyboy meant by "top-tier" is not popularity but rather "threat-level"

So Anno, your bringing up some random top ten article from some random website a large percentage of us have probably never heard of is less of a legitimate point in our discussion but more of a "Hey pr0xy! Look how i can prove you wrong!"

I would be absolutely shocked that people are not aware of Newsarama. Sorry if you've never heard of it? But it's not some random article. The site is known of creating many articles, such as top CBMs, worst CBMs, worst villains, etc. As well as the list holds true, at least regarding the top/big five villains in Batman's rogue gallery.

But you are referring to popularity, okay, fair enough. I didn't read that bit of what exactly the type of "tier" you're referring to. I am glad you are actually referring to popularity though and not straight up the greatest threats to Batman, since obviously Ra's al Ghul fits in THAT top tier.

I agree Ra's is one of Batman's greatest villains, but a couple hours ago I assumed spideyboy was referring to how they can hold their own movie due to their popularity, memorability, and aesthetics. Which is obviously irrelevant anyway, considering Ra's was successfully able to hold his own movie (Batman Begins) and Two-Face wasn't (Batman Forever). Lizard was (ASM) and Venom wasn't (SM3).

Ehhhh....both Two-Face and Venom could hold their own films. It's all about the writing.

 

[Venom'sDad]

This is frustrating anyway. Considering this conversation is based on a rumor that inspired spideyboy to call me small-minded based on an opinion of mine that was practically commonplace less than a year ago.

Spider-Man 3 had too many villains. They were not given the screentime or respect they deserved.

I don't want ASM2 to have too many villains in order to avoid the same problem. Done.

I think the difference between Raimi & Webb, as far as having multiple villains is concern; Raimi knows how to write & direct camp, not character development....Webb is more capable in developing character usage/character building, as well as story-telling.

 

[SpideyFan866]

This is frustrating anyway. Considering this conversation is based on a rumor that inspired spideyboy to call me small-minded based on an opinion of mine that was practically commonplace less than a year ago.

Spider-Man 3 had too many villains. They were not given the screentime or respect they deserved.

I don't want ASM2 to have too many villains in order to avoid the same problem. Done.

What is too many though?

Because this movie allegedly has 4 villains.

However, as I pointed out before, TDKR also had 4 of Batman's villains (Daggett, Scarecrow, Bane, Talia). BUT due to how they were used, only 2 got real focus as the "villains" of the film.
As far as character "importance" goes, we'll probably see a similar setup in ASM2.

Toomes likely won't be doing much of anything in this film and Goblin will likely appear at the very end.

So really, its still just the 2: Rhino and Electro.

Kinda like in TDKR. That had 4 Batman villains: Roland Daggett, Scarecrow, Bane, and Talia Al Ghul, but we know that the only 2 that really did much is Bane and Talia.


Rhino : Scarecrow

Toomes : Daggett

Electro : Bane

Goblin : Talia

 

[CashforStash]

What is too many though?

Because this movie allegedly has 4 villains.

However, as I pointed out before, TDKR also had 4 of Batman's villains (Daggett, Scarecrow, Bane, Talia). BUT due to how they were used, only 2 got real focus as the "villains" of the film.
As far as character "importance" goes, we'll probably see a similar setup in ASM2.

Electro will be the Bane of ASM2. Talia like GG and Rhino would be more of a dagget kind of role. Scarecrow was in TDKR for no more then 2 minutes.

When I say this, i know for a FACT that Electro is the main focus. But do not under estimate Rhino's presence either...

 

[SpideyFan866]

edit. nvm

 

[AF3619]

But what about Feore's character.........

as i mentioned before Feore will be the director of Ravencroft and secretly he provides Oscorp test subjects for experiments which could explain how Giamatti gain access to the Rhino suit when he failed to obtain the serum....then Feore tells him he can be free but if he gets him Spider-man for his client....(secretly Osborn)

 

[SpideyFan866]

as i mentioned before Feore will be the director of Ravencroft and secretly he provides Oscorp test subjects for experiments which could explain how Giamatti gain access to the Rhino suit when he failed to obtain the serum....then Feore tells him he can be free but if he gets him Spider-man for his client....(secretly Osborn)

Sounds likely.

 

[AF3619]

Sounds likely.

then he fails they leave him alone and Osborn goes to Harry and tells him to bring Peter home for Dinner or something then he gets his blood sample to is formula....and meanwhile Electro is in town he starts developing Osformula and in the end of the movie he finishes it

 

[CashforStash]

I think some people are getting sidetracked when thinking Electro will be "saved for the end".

Rhino is the meat of the villain side, while Electro is the bone.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Rhino and Electro will definitely be the focus. I really don't think that can be questioned at this point, regardless of who else could appear.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I think Goblin will fight Spider-Man after killing Gwen. Or at least I hope that happens.

 

[Spiderdevil]

So instead of 3 we have 4 villians now?

WTF is Webb upto!!

I always hated the idea of a sinister six,its too cartoony

Just 2 villians(electro and rhino) would have been fine

 

[Gamma Goliath]

We don't know if there are more than the already confirmed electro and rhino.