The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - - - - - - Part 15

[SlamAdams]

I just think it's bizarre. Is this not what the script is for? Don't they plan these things down to the minutiae beforehand knowing what/who they'll need/won't need?

Just seems weird to completely cut a whole character and their sub story/plot because it "wasn't working" and "we want to focus on gwen and peter". Really? Did you not decide that before you started shooting?

Doesn't give me a ton of faith in the guy that he knows what he's doing (especially after TASM).

Clearly not, they decided in the other direction but then changed their mind. I don't know why or if "wasn't working" is the truth, but its not like this hasn't happened before in other movies. Tons of movies have alternate endings and WHOLE aspects that are changed because its not working. I mean, Mary Jane IS the replacement for Gwen Stacy. If they decide not to get rid of Gwen, it stands to reason that Mary Jane is gone. Plus this comes on the heels of the news that the next TWO sequels have release dates so I'm thinking it has to do with that. Webb or someone involved had a pitch for the next few installments.

It seems unfair at this point to declare it a mess just yet

 

[Picard Sisko]

It was IN the script, Webb deleted it at the last moment, making it feel too more than just me awkwardly chopped apart.

What exactly are you saying was IN the script?

 

[Picard Sisko]

Clearly not, they decided in the other direction and then changed their mind. I don't know why or if "wasn't working" is the truth, but its not like this hasn't happened before in other movies. Tons of movies have alternate endings and WHOLE aspects that are changed because its not working. I mean, Mary Jane IS the replacement for Gwen Stacy. If they decide not to get rid of Gwen, it stands to reason that Mary Jane is gone. Plus this comes on the heels of the news that the next TWO sequels have release dates so I'm thinking it has to do with that. Webb or someone involved had a pitch for the next few installments.

It seems unfair at this point to declare it a mess just yet

Agreed. Let's wait and see where they are going with this.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Clearly not, they decided in the other direction and then changed their mind. I don't know why or if "wasn't working" is the truth, but its not like this hasn't happened before in other movies. Tons of movies have alternate endings and WHOLE aspects that are changed because its not working. I mean, Mary Jane IS the replacement for Gwen Stacy. If they decide not to get rid of Gwen, it stands to reason that Mary Jane is gone. Plus this comes on the heels of the news that the next TWO sequels have release dates so I'm thinking it has to do with that. Webb or someone involved had a pitch for the next few installments.

It seems unfair at this point to declare it a mess just yet

Exactly and that kind of decision on a movie of this magnitude is incredibly rare. It shows that they went in without a concrete plan and makes me question if he has one.

As said, this has nothing to do with whether or not Gwen was going to die. When you have a death of a pivotal character that is so connected to the protagonist, you are going to have things leading into it. You are going to have his arc intrinsically linked into it so that that moment truly makes an impact on his life. It's not just the small thing you can suddenly get rid of. So, from the beginning -- whatever Gwen's fate was it'll remain the same. Because there are too many details throughout that deal with character and theme that lead into that one moment. That's not to say Gwen will live or die, rather the character's outcome would have to remain the same -- otherwise you're looking at MAJOR re-shooting and portions of the script having to be entirely re-worked. Possibly even inventing a new character arc for Peter.

 

[Alt-Josh]

Wow this is a dumb conversation. How about everyone agrees to disagree? There's really no point in getting so worked up about something we know so little about. Patience grasshopper.

 

[Ultimatehero]

What exactly are you saying was IN the script?

Focus. You're saying it was a failure of the script for not having the focus on Peter dealing with his parents all the way throughout, but it was there in the script all the way throughout. Webb just decided to cut those scenes for whatever reason making it seem like that portion entirely lost focus. No, the script? Was great. The way they destroyed it after that - not really. It's the director's fault, not the writer's.

Connors telling Peter about his biological father, not what happened to him. (Is this what you're having difficulty with? I'm unsure if I'm phrasing this in a way where everyone could get it. I understand it because I can be told about my biological parents, who I don't know, without ever being told what happened to them and the why).

 

[FN Spider-man]

Exactly people are always ready to jump the gun when we know next to nothing or why

 

[SlamAdams]

Exactly and that kind of decision on a movie of this magnitude is incredibly rare. It shows that they went in without a concrete plan and makes me question if he has one.

It just as easily suggests they had a concrete plan but it wasn't working or it wasn't satisfying

As said, this has nothing to do with whether or not Gwen was going to die. When you have a death of a pivotal character that is so connected to the protagonist, you are going to have things leading into it. You are going to have his arc intrinsically linked into it so that that moment truly makes an impact on his life. It's not just the small thing you can suddenly get rid of. So, from the beginning -- whatever Gwen's fate was it'll remain the same. Because there are too many details throughout that deal with character and theme that lead into that one moment. That's not to say Gwen will live or die, rather the character's outcome would have to remain the same -- otherwise you're looking at MAJOR re-shooting and portions of the script having to be entirely re-worked. Possibly even inventing a new character arc for Peter.

Or they shoot one scene of Peter saving her in the moment she was supposed to die, continue developing the relationship, and revisit the moment later on (if at all). It's not nearly as complicated as suggested

 

[SlamAdams]

Wow this is a dumb conversation. How about everyone agrees to disagree? There's really no point in getting so worked up about something we know so little about. Patience grasshopper.

Are you suggesting we stop discussing on a discussion board?

 

[Picard Sisko]

Exactly and that kind of decision on a movie of this magnitude is incredibly rare. It shows that they went in without a concrete plan and makes me question if he has one.

As said, this has nothing to do with whether or not Gwen was going to die. When you have a death of a pivotal character that is so connected to the protagonist, you are going to have things leading into it. You are going to have his arc intrinsically linked into it so that that moment truly makes an impact on his life. It's not just the small thing you can suddenly get rid of. So, from the beginning -- whatever Gwen's fate was it'll remain the same. Because there are too many details throughout that deal with character and theme that lead into that one moment. That's not to say Gwen will live or die, rather the character's outcome would have to remain the same -- otherwise you're looking at MAJOR re-shooting and portions of the script having to be entirely re-worked. Possibly even inventing a new character arc for Peter.

I don't know why anyone thinks that Gwen's fate is going to change. If she was supposed to die, then she will. If it was planned for her to live on, then that's what's going to happen.

MJ being cut will most likely not affect the rest of the script, or at least it won't have any major impact on it. It won't change the character arc, and it won't change the other major events in the film either.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Are you suggesting we stop discussing on a discussion board?

No, I think he is suggesting that we change the topic of discussion.

 

[craigdbfan]

I don't know why anyone thinks that Gwen's fate is going to change. If she was supposed to die, then she will. If it was planned for her to live on, then that's what's going to happen.

MJ being cut will most likely not affect the rest of the script, or at least it won't have any major impact on it. It won't change the character arc, and it won't change the other major events in the film either.

Except for the part that there seemed to be a pretty big action piece she was involved in (the restaurant scene) and with her being scrapped I'm wondering what will happen to it.

 

[Ultimatehero]

It just as easily suggests they had a concrete plan but it wasn't working or it wasn't satisfying

Or they shoot one scene of Peter saving her in the moment she was supposed to die, continue developing the relationship, and revisit the moment later on (if at all). It's not nearly as complicated as suggested

On the first point we definitely agree. You don't cut something because it works, you cut something if it doesn't work. And something not working at this point - isn't exactly that good of an omen, at least to me.

The second is still looking at it as a death coming out of the blue. Because that would have meant in the script her death really had no impact on Peter at all other than, "oh, that's sad."

 

[GuestStar2004]

Look MJ clearly didn't have role in the plot, she was there so we knew she existed basically

Although the only thing I can think of that cutting her stuff may effect is gwens death, MJ was probably being set up for a bigger role in TASM3 but that's changed now it seems

But would it effect the story if they did have plans to kill gwen off but now changed it till the 3rd? It was most likely to happen at the end but they could change the ending, so it would bother some fans but if it was changed but I don't think we would ever find out as I doubt it would become public knowledge

Webb hasn't said she was gonna die so

 

[antsman41]

I'd rather have the friendship foundation created than; bam! Gwen's dead, enter next movie MJ and Peter falls in love.

 

[Alt-Josh]

Are you suggesting we stop discussing on a discussion board?

Fair enough. It's just silly to me that the same points are being made over and over again. And you're arguing about something we really have no idea about. But to each their own. Carry on. t:

 

[Picard Sisko]

Except for the part that there seemed to be a pretty big action piece she was involved in (the restaurant scene) and with her being scrapped I'm wondering what will happen to it.

Well it looked more like a "reaction" to a bigger fight scene, so it can probably be cut from the movie without much of a loss.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I don't know why anyone thinks that Gwen's fate is going to change. If she was supposed to die, then she will. If it was planned for her to live on, then that's what's going to happen.

Exactly, there are just too many elements that go into something like to have it poignant. If Gwen's death can be changed at a drop of a hat with Peter saving her -- then that means Peter's journey up to that moment and his one after that really wasn't anything since it has no impact on his life apparently other than, "oh, that's sad." When they kill Gwen, it's gonna leave repercussions and an impact.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I'd rather have the friendship foundation created than; bam! Gwen's dead, enter next movie MJ and Peter falls in love.

That's assuming Gwen actually dies in TASM2.

 

[SlamAdams]

On the first point we definitely agree. You don't cut something because it works, you cut something if it doesn't work. And something not working at this point - isn't exactly that good of an omen, at least to me.

I don't know why it is an omen at all. If it's not working, why NOT fix it. It seems like a WORSE idea to leave it in.

The second is still looking at it as a death coming out of the blue. Because that would have meant in the script her death really had no impact on Peter at all other than, "oh, that's sad."

But the death of a main character is probably the climax, and if it is the climax,than it was going to have more impact on future installments than THIS installment. With the news that 3 and 4 have release dates, that leads me to believe they thought of something big for the future and this decision is part of that.

 

[amazingly atiba]

wow

 

[GuestStar2004]

I'd rather have the friendship foundation created than; bam! Gwen's dead, enter next movie MJ and Peter falls in love.

Many reasons why Peter and MJ wouldn't fall in love that quickly after gwens death

 

[Ultimatehero]

Although the only thing I can think of that cutting her stuff may effect is gwens death, MJ was probably being set up for a bigger role in TASM3 but that's changed now it seems

Gwen's fate is the same as it was in the beginning. I have no idea what writer would give Gwen's death just the "oh, that's sad" treatment. It would be a life changing event for Peter that would leave an impact.

The easiest visual I can give of this is this --

You have a train barreling down a course ready for an on-coming collision since everything has been leading here....

Suddenly the train is on the tracks beside it and the collision doesn't happen. There is no change. It was just there. The character is the same as he was in the beginning.

Film's don't work that way.

Film is about CHANGE. That moment would come in about ten minutes before the ending. And you would see a shift in Peter.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I don't know why it is an omen at all. If it's not working, why NOT fix it. It seems like a WORSE idea to leave it in.

It's a good thing to fix it. I never said it wasn't. I just said to be this early in the game and already have something that doesn't work - doesn't really inspire confidence.

 

[amazingly atiba]

they have different angles to that shot they can easily edit her out