The Amazing Spider-Man 2 General Discussion - - Part 86

Discussion in 'The Amazing Spider-Man 2' started by Thread Manager, Jan 20, 2015.

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  1. Thread Manager

    Thread Manager Moderator

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    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]486145[/split]
     
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  2. Thread Manager

    Thread Manager Moderator

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    This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]485127[/split]
     
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  3. spideyboy_1111

    spideyboy_1111 Young Avenger

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    I thought they did a decent job at taking advantage of new york. What do you want them to do? Hokily show landmarks constantly?
     
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  4. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    I think you also missed what I was saying. I mention that they show off some NYC landmarks and that was fine. But there was no "New York feel" to the movie. It could have easily been filmed mostly in LA and you wouldn't know the difference. And the studio would have probably saved some money with it's production budget.
     
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  5. Leenie

    Leenie Well-Known Member

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    I definitely prefer how New York was done in the Raimi movies. It felt like a city with personality (which is something that NYC is full of!). And to see Spider-Man inspire many of the people in New York to help each other is something I've always liked from the Raimi films, especially during the train scene. The seemingly jaded nature of New Yorkers get affected when they realize who Spider-Man really is ("He's just a ... Kid. No older than my son."), and then they stand up for him. It's a classic superhero trope for the hero to inspire others to do good, and I'm glad that there was some of that in these movies.

    While I have no issues with how New York itself was portrayed in TASM1 (in fact, I liked how the city looked in TASM1, now that I think about it), TASM2's New York felt like a parade. "Oh, Spider-Man's here! Let's all watch him do his thing and cheer!" instead of "Thank goodness Spider-Man is here to fight that dangerous bad guy who could kill every one of us! Let's get out of here!" And those barricades that appear out of nowhere ... Oh my goodness, it was so laughable.
     
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  6. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    My goodness, this is so beautiful... I could not have described it in a better way.

    I thought NYC was "fine" in TASM1. I know a good portion of the film took place in Queens, not Manhattan, but overall the it felt like the movie was closed up in a box. You could sort of feel that it was imprisoned by studio walls (a lot of it was filmed in studio lots I think). But it was a lot better than TASM2. Seriously, what the hell is with those barricades? It's like these superhero battles have become so common in NYC that people now line up to go watch them. Ridiculous.

    In Raimi's movies, it was more like, "OH GOSH! Look, it's Spider-Man! He's amazing! He's saving somebody!" In TASM2 it's like, "Okay people, you know the drill. Line up and stand behind the barricade..."
     
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  7. spideyboy_1111

    spideyboy_1111 Young Avenger

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    And i disagree with that as someone who use to frequent there. It felt more indie, local new york than the typical psa for nyc vacations.

    One thing web always got right was the cinematography
     
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  8. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    I think the Times Square set they built looked really good, but I think the whole thing was wasted. They could have done a really good fight scene but instead it was just some talking followed by destruction. Could have been so much cooler.
     
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  9. spideyboy_1111

    spideyboy_1111 Young Avenger

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    Oh i agree with that... it should have been the final battle rather than the power plant
     
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  10. Daltonio

    Daltonio Avi Arad's Sidekick

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    Has anyone checked out the audio commentary for this film? How is it?

    I haven't watched it yet, but I was thinking about it tonight.
     
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  11. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    I was very surprised when I found out Marc Webb didn't do the audio commentary for the film. I wonder if that was done on purpose.
     
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  12. Daltonio

    Daltonio Avi Arad's Sidekick

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    He didn't?!? :wow: That sucks. :csad:

    He did the commentary for the deleted scenes at least. Do you know who did the movie commentary then?
     
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  13. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I was very disappointed by his lack of commentary. I know the studio didn't really give him much say in the film it's possible they didn't want him to come in and talk about it.

    I think the audio commentary was by Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach.
     
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  14. spiderman2

    spiderman2 Well-Known Member

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    I have only watched it with the commentary once but I thought web did do it? I wish AG was in the commentary to.
     
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  15. Mirals

    Mirals Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the commentary is made by :
    - the 2 producers: Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach
    - and 2 of the writers: Alex Kurtzmann and Jeff Pinker

    When you hear Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach in the audio commentary, you can clearly see that those 2 guys completly imposed things to Marc Webb. It's pretty sad. They had lots of control on Marc Webb's work.

    I made a recap of the most interesting bits of the audio commentary, so If you are interested I can re-post it.
     
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  16. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    Webb did the commentary for the deleted scenes, not the film.

    Exactly why they hired an inexperienced director.

    Sure, I'd like to see that. :)
     
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  17. craigdbfan

    craigdbfan Well-Known Member

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    Ugh Avi Arad...
     
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  18. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    It really does feel like Marc Webb is the director in name only. I mean he does have some say in the creative process and is responsible for some of the film's faults but I never got the feeling that "this is a Marc Webb film." TASM1 at least felt like it came from the same director as (500) Days of Summer.
     
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  19. Mirals

    Mirals Well-Known Member

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    No problem, :)


    Here's what I think are the most interesting things of this audio commentary :yay: Enjoy:

    - Filmmakers wanted to start this sequel with the same type of scene as the begining of TASM1, but this time from parents point of view.
    The goal was to answer the questions left unresolved in the first movie.

    - The story of the parents is highly inspired, while different, of Rosenbergs story, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.

    - With this movie, they wanted to do a story about the evolution of a young Peter, a teenager, to a more mature Peter adulthood - a young adult.

    - The first shot of the film showing Spider-Man with his new suit, is to make it clear that since the end of TASM1, Peter accepted his alter ego Spider-Man and became a symbol for the entire city.

    - The costume change was made ​​"by popular demand".
    In other words, it’s thanks to the fans, who did not appreciate the previous costume.
    Producerswere concerned of these remarks and wanted the character to please the broadest public.

    - Paul Giamatti announced on tv its desire to play Rhino in a Spider-Man film. "We aim to please" say producers. That's why Paul Giamatti was casted.

    - Buster Keaton homage, created by Andrew Garfield and "Cal"(?)

    -The dog that which is in one of the scenes where Gwen join her friends is the real dog of Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone.

    - "I was cleaning chemeny". That line was an improv by Andrew. His original line was "I was gardening ... I was ... potatoes".

    - Alex regrets here :
    “Is placing Peter's drive to know more about his parents, a little bit more in the foreground of the first act.
    Because he feels like right around here, you are starting to king of feel like you're wanting to know what he is doing other than just maintaining. How to show Peter in denial.”

    - The writers wanted to play on the idea that Tante May "had a strong suspicion that Peter was Spider-Man. Aunt May is in that gray area. She looks at him like she's waiting for him to tell her. But she is also smart enough not to confront him with it."

    - Matt (producer): “One of the radical idea in the film is to posit that Harry was the Green Goblin, and not Norman.”

    - They knew that kill Norman Osborn would be a controversial choice.
    Alex(writer): "That being said ... Maybe he's not really dead. We're sort of keeping the lights on."
    "There may be a scene we didn't show anybody. There might be. There might be a scene...There might be reason to see another one."
    Matt(producer): “Yeah.”

    - "The sins of the fathers." :
    Harry has a parallel to Peter's story with Mysterious myhtic father figures who ultimately were never there for their sons.
    Matt also add that they wanted to put that "sins of the father" title for the last movie. They thought movie would have get attention with that kind of title.

    - The electro eels idea comes from the Spectacular Spider-Man animated serie.

    - Felicity Jones's character was NOT named Felecia in the script. It was like an on-the-day change. Somebody at the studio made that suggestion to call her Felicia. As a nod to the comic AND an option.


    - The audition for Harry Osborn, Dan Dehaan, was based on the scene where Peter visits Harry for the first time, after having learned about Norman's death. They hadn't been friends since they were children together. It's a re-contextualisation of their characters relationship

    - Deleted scene ("weird, creepy scene"):
    Flashback / Peter parents' funeral scene where, at the wake of Peter's parents.
    Peter was sort of this lonely child in this room of adults, and he snuck off to his dad's study and he walked Harry and Harry said ...
    They started playing chess and it was kind of a metaphor of these boys connecting and finding each other.
    Their relation ship had all been about going to their father's labs. Watching their dads' work, their dads' experiment.
    And then in the doorway, you saw Norman at the beginning of his degenerative disease, holding on his cane, watching the boys

    Comment of Alex(writer): "Do we really need this to tell the story? Do we really need to tell all that back-story? ..."


    - Rock skipping (river) scene was longer in the first cut.

    - Max at the Morgue :
    “This scene has been edited multiple times.”
    "This was a much longer scene.(...) You get to that place where you need what you need. And so that will be on DVD extras."

    - Phosphorent "Zong for Zula" music was added by Marc Webb. This music existed in EVERY single version of the film.
    "This is that real (500) Days of Summer Marc Webb" add Matt Tomalch.
    That particular scene was about 4 minutes longer in the first cut.

    - Harry phones Peter scene :
    "that was Marc Webb's idea that Peter nabs up there. He's a spider."

    - Harry and Peter at Oscorp:
    Matt: "This was another scene that was reams longer that it ended up being."
    Alex: "Yes, there was a lot of information."
    Matt: "Not only was it this scene, but there was a thread in the script that started way back at the water, not the High Line, about how, after Richard disappeared Norman had continued to spy on Peter and Aunt May ... Thinking that perhaps
    -- Because they hadn't found evidence of Richard's death in the water -- that maybe Richard would have tried to reach out to Peter. And it sort of kept alive this idea of the intrigue of the Osborns and of Oscopr, that ultimately we found, and I think correctly, wasn't really necessary to the telling of the story."

    "We did a bunch of different takes of the final beat here [“Don't turn your back on me!” line].
    And in some of them it was a menacing moment that we ended the scene on where Harry was threatening him (Peter) and saying like, you know, "Find him for me.".
    And there was something off-putting about it.
    You felt like it didn't motivate Peter to do what he was about to do. And so we used this take where he sort of reaches out to him [...]."

    - Peter and Gwen in the Oscorp closet :
    In the first version of the movie, that scene wasn't there. “It was out of the movie.”
    “It was out just as a matter of length and it's not necessary to tell the story, but emotionally, the two of them together is the heart of the movie, and without this scene you really felt that loss."

    - Scene with Peter and Aunt May in Peters' room :
    “There was several versions of that scene as well.
    And ultimately, what led to the scene you're watching was Sally. [...]
    At different times, this scene was in and out of the movie, in different sort of length."
    "Marc Webb fought for this, he really did."


    - Oxford acceptance scene:
    Alex: Originally he (Peter) had a whole sort of -- He came clean with her and said, "I love you."
    It was a whole thing ... And Matt ... At some point in the process, somebody-- You said (Matt) "What if he just doesn't say it?". And the what was great about that was ...
    Matt: We got to hold it back for later.
    Alex: You hold it back, so he says it on the bridge and then it's more meaningful.

    "He (Andrew) did 30 different improvs of that moment. All of which were great."

    - Peter angry in his room:
    You realize in the process in this moment here, the --
    There's a version of this scene which was cut against --
    Which was much angrier and cut against more angry, aggressive music.
    And played completely differently, and it really played against what was happening here."

    - The train thing was Marc Webbs' idea.

    - Train scene:
    “There was a longer section we cut, I think correctly about the nature of the science...
    The nature of the virus that Richard had, you know, basically locked the blood work to his DNA and that some of the tests that he had done enhanced the disease cells in people who had the disease.
    But it also enhanced healthy cells in people who were healthy...Which explained one of them was gonna become a goblin, and one of them was gonna become Spider-Man.
    And ultimately it was just one of those things that we didn’t really need to tell the story.”

    "But it was interesting because we went back and forth and back and forth... about how much information for plot's sake you needed ...
    and what the scene really needed to be about. And what the scene really needed to be about for Peter Parker was the revelation "My father loved me." and that he wasn't a spy."

    - The battery on Electro's head was Marc Webb's idea to set up the fact that he could be overloaded

    - Goblin transformation:
    Alex: There was a whole sequence that we ended up cutting out of the movie... again, for the momentum of it all where the Goblin, like, blew up the base, first the basement and then the ground floor of Oscorp.
    And it was an awesome sequence. It was super cool. And it was one of those things that you have to measure out.
    There is sot much happening in the third act ... And there is so much action in it, that a certain point, I think we all are sensitive to when does the audience begin to turn off to too much happening ?
    And so we ended up cutting, but it was a great sequence."

    "There's a shot coming up here"
    Matt " It was actually the first appearance of him on the glider, and the truth is , it slightly stepped on the reveal of him later.
    And we felt very strongly that you didn't wanna telegraph that. You know what I mean ?

    "This was also one of those scenes that had to be modulated a lot.
    When we first saw it, it was really pretty horrific...And terrifying, and beautiful the way Marc had designed it. But it was, you know, the stuff of nightmares.
    And so we had to dial it back to -- You know, and experiment with it."

    - Electro's head on building was something Marc Webb designed himself, way before the shooting of the movie.



    Any thoughts ? :woot:
     
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  20. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    Very cool, thanks for posting. Great stuff.. :)
     
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  21. W/ Great Power

    W/ Great Power Uncle Ben

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    This is just a small excerpt, but on multiple occasions during their commentary, you really get the idea that they were legitimately confused about what to do with some of these scenes, and which story they wanted to tell.

    That's what happens when you try to fit so many things in one small package.
     
    #21
  22. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    They're just making things up as they go along it seems. There's no plan for the franchise and that's why Sony isn't fit to be producing Spider-Man movies.
     
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  23. Mirals

    Mirals Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad it interests you, and I'm happy to share those bits with you and people who do't have the bluray with the audio commentary.

    Now, I have to say that TASM2 is still my favorite Spider-Man film. But it's far from being perfect, yes.
    But I'm convinced that in the beginning this sequel was supposed to be bigger, greater. Why ? Because I fully trust Andrew Garfield. Let me explain : When he said that the script was beautiful, really great and then changed his mind after the movie came out ... I immediatly understood that something went wrong again because of the studio during pre/post-production.
    We all know that now.
    Spider-Man isn't safe in the hands of SONY PICTURES. Because of Producers and tentpoles, who have too much power, and wants to overshadow the director and butcher the script.

    "There's no plan for the franchise and that's why Sony isn't fit to be producing Spider-Man movies. "
    And you're absolutly right Spider2099.
     
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  24. Spider2099

    Spider2099 Well-Known Member

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    I really wonder what the script was like before the studio interfered. Heck, I really want to take a look at the original draft by James Vanderbilt.
     
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  25. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Well-Known Member

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    If not for Andrew Garfield and Webb ruining the franchise, this might not have happened.

    So thanks are owed I suppose.
     
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