The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man General Discussion - - Part 21

[Gianakin_]

Exactly. And it's very funny that you specifically say "action indie", because let me see where else I've heard that... oh, yeah! Batman Begins!

Instead of giving Webb a chance to fullfil his vision in its entirety, they presented him with a script and he had to work with it. A shame. He could've done wonders with the appropriate amount of freedom.

 

[Nathan]

He definitely needs complete control. The human aspect was one of the things I enjoyed the most. Like the end, when Peter comes home, fakes that big, ass grin to make everything seem alright, while he's bloody and bruised all over. Then pulls off his back pack, and even that hurts, and then slowly pulls out the eggs he forgot to buy last time. They hug and he completely tired just says "I had a rough night...".

I just loved that part so much.

 

[Gianakin_]

Yup, the Webb factor. I'm telling you, his ideas and contributions are so pwerful to me, that I forgave the many and obvious flaws of the script and editing.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Exactly. And it's very funny that you specifically say "action indie", because let me see where else I've heard that... oh, yeah! Batman Begins!

Instead of giving Webb a chance to fulfill his vision in its entirety, they presented him with a script and he had to work with it. A shame. He could've done wonders with the appropriate amount of freedom.

Agreed. When you think about it, Marc really is the perfect choice for this movie. The way the first half plays out really illustrates that. But when the Lizard comes into the picture it feels like Sony was all like "Ok Marc, you got to do a little of your thing, now we will do our's"

 

[Gianakin_]

Yup. 2nd half is SM1-ish.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Yup, the Webb factor. I'm telling you, his ideas and contributions are so pwerful to me, that I forgave the many and obvious flaws of the script and editing.

Same here. Now that I look at the trailers again, it almost feels like that the first trailer was edited by Marc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL8ctUN1ZSI
and this trailer was edited by some Sony executive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpKPiHYJc54

Also, here's why I rated this movie 9.5: it's a rating as a Spider-man movie, not as an overall movie. As a movie overall it's like an 8. This will probably explain my feelings more:

Spider-Man 2: as a Spider-Man movie it's 7/10, but as a movie it's 9.5/10

After this movie, now that they have created really good and interesting versions of these characters and the universe, I wish that they will be also backed up with a brilliant script in the sequel

 

[Gianakin_]

I totally get your rating criteria. As Spidey movie I'd rate it 8, then. As a movie, I've rated it 7.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I totally get your rating criteria. As Spidey movie I'd rate it 8, then. As a movie, I've rated it 7.

Cool

also, call me crazy but I really think that the whole parents thing was Marc's decision like "hey, the mystery of their disappearance and their involvement with Oscorp can really make for a great story!" but then Sony was like "how about the spider bite wasn't an accident at all and it's connected to the parents? that will really shake up the origin a notch!"

 

[Gianakin_]

The Hulk origin idea reeks of Avi Arad.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The Hulk origin idea reeks of Avi Arad.

You know about the Hulk origin, I didn't feel it here the same way, Richard was working on genetic manipulation to improve some stuff, but didn't feel as convoluted and messed up as the Hulk story, he rather worked on spiders and hardly on his son

I really like how this is the first Spider-Man movie lacking the Damsel in Distress, I was afraid this would be a thing here with Gwen, really glad the Lizard just wanted something from the cabinet, and not "Oooh, Gwen, Peter will probably side with you and help you, you're my insurance." Gwen torching the Lizard is one of my favorite moments in the movie

 

[Gianakin_]

I don't care how it would've been handled, the idea takes away a lot from Peter. The Ultimate/TASM lack of randomness is borderline ok with me, but anything more purposeful than that ruins the character for me.

I also was glad to see we didn't get the damsel in distress in this one.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

The Hulk origin idea reeks of Avi Arad.

so true

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I don't care how it would've been handled, the idea takes away a lot from Peter. The Ultimate/TASM lack of randomness is borderline ok with me, but anything more purposeful than that ruins the character for me.

I also was glad to see we didn't get the damsel in distress in this one.

Agreed. Kinda glad that they cut that from the movie

which brings me to my theory, that they cut it because they at the last moment wanted to change direction, because they panicked from the test screening response

 

[Gianakin_]

One of the few cases where I'm glad their balls dropped off.

 

[Nathan]

I wasn't following the Movie too closely, so I didn't know they changed the Origin and would have had Peter's Father experimenting on him. Reading this article, I'm so glad that concept got axed.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

@Gianakin_ nice reference

Now that we got this script talk going, I might as well mention the lizard as well: A cool design made specifically to show emotion, while the lizard's part of the script had no emotional resonance what so ever

here's a screen cap of the lizard, one of the best faces accomplished by his Rhys' motion capture:

Spoiler

if they just would've developed Connors/Lizard as a deeper character, I would praise the choice to use motion cap, but with what they did here script-wise, I would've rather had the crazy looking beast lizard. That would've made me feel a little better

 

[Gianakin_]

Agreed.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

It may seem like I'm totally hating this movie now, but I'm totally not. Actually, I prefer this universe and these characters over the Raimi-verse stuff. Like you said, it's just the script that holds this movie down

If they will shape up for the sequel and use these characters in a way that they deserve to be used, I will totally forgive this movie's faults. In fact, I would probably like it a whole lot more. The next movie really needs to be The Dark Knight of Spider-Man movies, otherwise I will be praying that they'll just give the rights back to Marvel

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

@Gianakin_ nice reference

Now that we got this script talk going, I might as well mention the lizard as well: A cool design made specifically to show emotion, while the lizard's part of the script had no emotional resonance what so ever

here's a screen cap of the lizard, one of the best faces accomplished by his Rhys' motion capture:

Spoiler

if they just would've developed Connors/Lizard as a deeper character, I would praise the choice to use motion cap, but with what they did here script-wise, I would've rather had the crazy looking beast lizard. That would've made me feel a little better

Thats what I've been saying. Last week some guy posted some Lizard concept art that got axed. Why !? Some of those designs looked a whole lot cooler than what we got. He was really the savage, brutish and beast-like lizard in those concepts. And yes, he had a snout.

People say they went with this Lizard so that the actors emotions could show through ! With the script we got there was absolutely no need for us to be reminded of Connors when he was in Lizard mode so why not go full beast ?

Use Connors as a man and his family to get our emotional involvement and make us care for him. But when he's the Lizard, let him be the Lizard. Look up those scrapped concepts for yourself, you'll find we got the short end of the stick with this Lizard.

 

[spider-neil]

It may seem like I'm totally hating this movie now, but I'm totally not. Actually, I prefer this universe and these characters over the Raimi-verse stuff. Like you said, it's just the script that holds this movie down

If they will shape up for the sequel and use these characters in a way that they deserve to be used, I will totally forgive this movie's faults. In fact, I would probably like it a whole lot more. The next movie really needs to be The Dark Knight of Spider-Man movies, otherwise I will be praying that they'll just give the rights back to Marvel

A lot of this movie was set up, the next movie we need some pay off.

 

[Gianakin_]

There's one piece of concept art that depicts him as more animalistc, but with a half-snout. Perfect combination of beast and a face human enough to emote.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

There's one piece of concept art that depicts him as more animalistc, but with a half-snout. Perfect combination of beast and a face human enough to emote.

I know what design you mean, but nah... I actually prefer the movie design over that concept

these were my favorite concepts:

Spoiler

not only you could've had fights with the completely beast Lizard, but you could've had a battle with the half human, half lizard Connors (made mainly by prosthetics) with Connors saying some menacing dialogue and the scene could also drive the story

 

[Gianakin_]

Middle one's great, albeit a bit on the fish side. The other 2 could've been really scary had they been chosen.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Middle one's great, albeit a bit on the fish side. The other 2 could've been really scary had they been chosen.

That's also one thing... one guy (don't remember who it was) said that Spider-Man is like the McDonalds of superheroes, it has to be good to everyone. Sony probably didn't want to scare kids with the lizard too much, so that's why the lizard isn't scary.

In the end, even with the traits of the design that was used, with a few tweaks the lizard still could've been really creepy I feel. In fact, in the movie there are a few moments where he almost is, but doesn't quite reach the creepy factor

 

[Gianakin_]

The only moment I can think of is when he's screaming as he opens the canisters with the gas and starts spreading it.