Discussion in 'The Amazing Spider-Man' started by Thread Manager, Oct 31, 2012.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]388317[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]387337[/split]
I think you've pretty much said what I (and a lot of other people, apparently) have been thinking for awhile, but couldn't pinpoint exactly -- I knew I LIKED TASM best and that it felt the most right to me (though it is obviously not without its flaws, and quite a few of them), but thought SM2 was a better film as far as being more cohesive, grander in scale, handling multiple themes and character arcs, etc. But yeah, I wasn't too fond of quite a few characterizations in it save for JJJ and Harry, I think. And while I still think Ock was the best movie villain if I look at the whole package and don't think about the comics, when I do think of the comics, it kind of bugs me that he was pretty much the Lizard with Ock's power set. I say that as someone who's a fan of both in the comics, btw.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. When I watch films I try to seperate them from the source material, if I didn't, I'd have issues with a lot of movies I love. I've read all the Bourne books (the original 3 that is) and I love them, I also love the movies, though they're very, VERY different. Same with Jurassic Park.
SM2 is pretty much the same. It's a very well made movie, but not what I wanted out of a Spider-man movie. I never really liked the way PP/Spidey was handled, and I absolutely hated the way they potrayed MJ. And, like you, I never liked that Ock had an arc that should have belonged to Connors. I remember hearing that originally Raimi intended Lizard and Doc Ock to be in SM2, and it's easy to see that. He basically gave Ock the Lizard's arc.
Something has to be iconic when the movie as a whole won't be
now that´s kinda trolling
the movie is not perfect but i don´t get "Iconic as a whole" thing
tell me what is a movie is iconic as a whole?
How is it trolling? This film is no Spider-Man 2. This film is no The Dark Knight.
Show me anywhere where TAS-M has been hailed as the greatest CBM? If it never got that title, how in the world would it ever be iconic? ESPECIALLY when it deals with an origin that another film dealt with years ago that actually became iconic for the kind of trend it started.
I would agree that TASM didn't do anything iconic. And that's not a bad thing. There are tons of movies out there that I love that I wouldn't consider iconic, and there are some movies that I don't like that are.
But all you have to do is look at the influence TASM had on pop culture. With SM1, you had people parodying the upside down kiss within the first few months of it's release, and a Weird Al song to boot.
TASM wasn't iconic. At the same time, I still prefer it much more then any of the previous three films. I don't think Anno_Domini was trying to troll or bash on TASM when he said it wasn't iconic.
ok, is not hailed as one of the best CBM and is not an iconic movie because someone did that before ...but the "iconic" movies that you say are sequels
and how is "The Dark knight" iconic?, just curiosity
I think Speed Racer is one of the coolest movies I've ever seen, definitely one of the most inventive. I could watch it over and over and never get bored. But I don't think I'd call it iconic.
TASM is one of the best character-driven CBM's I've ever seen and that's really what I praise it for. It's not the best film I've ever seen, but it's the most honest Spider-Man movie I've ever seen and that's all I really wanted from it.
I am a little upset with how Sony handled it after seeing those deleted scenes.
We may be getting into semantics here, but I consider a film iconic if it's had a major impact on pop culture, and has scenes/lines that people will quote for years afterwards.
The "I think we're going to need a bigger boat" in Jaws.
The T-Rex escaping in Jurassic Park,
Indy shooting the swordsman in Raiders, etc.
I'd categoraize TDK in the "iconic" category, because Ledger's Joker has become iconic, along with his catchphrases "Wanna know how I got these scars?" Or "Why so serious" and (at least I think) will continue to be remembered for many years. That categorizes it as an iconic movie for me.
And again, I don't look at that as a bad thing. I would call Prestige an "iconic" movie either, but it's still one of my favorites.
Well I think Infinity answered the question on how TDK is considered iconic. Let alone, it's memorized as a CBM that literally changed things and this isn't a pun from one of Joker's lines as it's clearly the truth. Nolan's entire trilogy will be memorable, but out of those three films, it'll be The Dark Knight that is known as a very iconic film in the lines of Spider-Man 2, Superman: The Movie. And in regards to a film that started something, no other Spider-Man film period will be as iconic as the '02 film for really pushing the trend of all CBMs for the 21st century. I don't see anywhere where The Amazing Spider-Man will be known as very iconic or a film that started something as Superman: The Movie, Spider-Man, Batman Begins.
i agree with most of what you said
but how exactly The Dark Knight changed things? i get the Joker was very iconic
but what else?
What else? Lol. Crossing the lines in making a CBM feel more than just a CBM. By having more philosophical elements in a superhero film that was received very well and doing a better job at it then even Singer's X-Men films. I don't know how you can say TDK didn't change things with the genre as a whole.
TDK didn't really have any influence on comic book movies that came after. Name me one superhero flick that is like TDK since 2008 (TDKR not withstanding, obviously)? If anything, Batman Begins is the influential one, as the likes of Favreau, Gavin Hood (Wolverine director), and Marc Webb has name dropped it as influences. Begins also had an impact on Hollywood at large being the first successful reboot which now allows Hollywood to be very reboot happy. The only film that has been cited by its filmmakers as being influenced by TDK is Skyfall, which is not even a comic book film. JJ Abrams also cites TDK as an influence for his Star Trek sequel, which has yet to come out, and once again, isn't a comic book film.
Hmmm, there's nothing iconic about TDK. Pulp Fiction, that's iconic. There's nothing iconic about Joker(don't confuse the fact because a beloved actor died); Jules, that's iconic.
I think people are using the term very loosely. A number of actors could easyly pull off Joker...none could pull off Jules.
We're talking about two different things though. What's an iconic film, specifically a CBM, and what CBM out there started something. While TDK, to me, is an iconic film, you are correct with Batman Begins being the film that created a new trend of reboots as well as influence other directors, which I even mentioned already.
Nothing? Really? Let alone Ledger's Joker being a definitive villain as well as the now definitive take on the character, but the entire movie is a very iconic take in cinematic history.
I agree FOR ONE TIME ONLY with Anno.
I agree with Infinity9999x when he says about iconic having an influence on pop culture. That's how I see it.
Like the giant rock ball chasing Indiana Jones in the first movie. I've seen that represented in other midia so many times. Games, for example. Like Crash Bandicoot.
The Simpsons too. But instead of the ball, it was Homer.
I think I used the word iconic wrong, I meant memorable.
IMO, TASM is both the better film and better spidey film.
Why? It's mainly due to all the non spidey stuff in Spidey 2. The Pete/MJ scenes are borderline Star Wars prequal quality IMO, I didn't care much for Harry's torment in the film the way I should have been, the Ock stuuf (pre-tentacles) is ok, and the JJ stuff, whilst funny is not a movie saver.
TASM just gives me both an emotional ride as much as an action ride. Whilst it's not perfect, I get absolute joy (and near depression, in a good way) when watching it (and I've watched it so many times now lol).
I agree that TDK is the superior film to it.
TDK proved you can have a long, dark, intricate movie that takes itself as seriously as any crime drama, doesn't sacrifice its rich storyline to make itself more appealing AND still manages to make a bajilion dollars at the box-office.
I wonder what Nolan's take would've been on the Lizard. Not like "a realistic 'this could happen' Lizard" but if Nolan had made this movie, what would Connors/Lizard be like?