The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man General Discussion & Speculation Thread - Part 5

[ShadowBoxer]

Personally I think it will go down like this: Peter gets his powers and initially uses them to fight crime, but in a reckless, more self-satisfying way. Doing it more for the fun and thrill of it rather out of any sense of moral obligation. So when he finally has enough of being bullied by Flash Thompson, he doesn't hesitate to beat the crap out of him and humiliate him for revenge. Uncle Ben gets on Peter's case about it, which makes him mad. As a result, he goes out that night with an attitude of carelessness, and decides not to bother stopping the robber who runs right past him.

The more I think about it, the more I think it works. In my opinion, it hits all the same beats as the original story. It actually seems more natural and subtle, as opposed to just saying 1) He gets his powers 2) He becomes a selfish jerk 3)He learns not to be a selfish jerk and becomes a superhero.

In this case, it's about him having to grow out of his immaturity. The power and responsibility theme still applies, in fact maybe even more strongly here than in the original story.

I actually like this idea.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Not really.

To me, it is a terrible idea. One of the things I like about Spider-Man's origin is that he doesn't even consider fighting crime until he has a good reason to do so. It makes the character feel much more realistic in that regard.

 

[Troy_Parker]

I consider having the ability to fight crime being the reason why he fights crime a good reason, but okay then. Seeing as how they've ditched the wrestling route, they had to fill in the gap somehow.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I consider having the ability to fight crime being the reason why he fights crime a good reason, but okay then. Seeing as how they've ditched the wrestling route, they had to fill in the gap somehow.

Just because Peter has the power to fight crime, doesn't mean he has a motivation to. Most people wouldn't fight crime just because they gained superpowers. They would seek to exploit those powers for personal gain in some fashion, just as Peter does initially in most origin stories. That's part of what makes Peter Parker relatable as a character. Having him fight crime before Uncle Ben dies dilutes what makes the character unique.

If they really had to ditch the wrestling route and replace it with something else, why not have Peter use his abilities to play sports, a la Ultimate Spider-Man?

 

[Michael Frost]

I understand that it might work from a motivation perspective and inner change perspective. Problem is that you folks forget this is a movie, where people watch things happen.

My point is, from a narrative perspective, having him fight crime because he wants to feel empowered only to switch to fighting crime because he realizes he has a responsability has a lot less impact in a VISUAL NARRATIVE than having a radical change from cheap wrestler and TV gigs to a full blown crimefighter.

The change depicted in the first is mainly inner. He changes his motivations but not what he's doing because he was already doing it before (even if it was clumsy or reckless). For an audience to truly grasp a change in behaviour, you need to really split the two behaviours apart by more than just inner turmoil. People need to see that change and it's not just as impactful if you just have him change the way he busts bad guys...

 

[Troy_Parker]

Just because Peter has the power to fight crime, doesn't mean he has a motivation to. Most people wouldn't fight crime just because they gained superpowers. They would seek to exploit those powers for personal gain in some fashion, just as Peter does initially in most origin stories. That's part of what makes Peter Parker relatable as a character. Having him fight crime before Uncle Ben dies dilutes what makes the character unique.

Mhm. The problem is that the wrestling route has already been done in Raimi's Spider-Man.

If they really had to ditch the wrestling route and replace it with something else, why not have Peter use his abilities to play sports, a la Ultimate Spider-Man?

Sports?

He wrestled in Ultimate Spider-Man.

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Just because Peter has the power to fight crime, doesn't mean he has a motivation to. Most people wouldn't fight crime just because they gained superpowers. They would seek to exploit those powers for personal gain in some fashion, just as Peter does initially in most origin stories. That's part of what makes Peter Parker relatable as a character. Having him fight crime before Uncle Ben dies dilutes what makes the character unique.

No, it really doesn't. There are TONS of reasons why Spider-Man is a unique character. It doesn't matter that he puts on a costume and starts fighting crime before Uncle Ben dies, it matters that he learns responsibility from Uncle Ben's death. The fact that he fights a couple of thugs and missuses his powers to get back in the face of the police shows a clear representation of how he is being irresponsible.

What matters is that he learns the lesson, it doesn't matter when. If he puts on the costume before Ben's death it will most certainly not dilute the experience.

If they really had to ditch the wrestling route and replace it with something else, why not have Peter use his abilities to play sports, a la Ultimate Spider-Man?

I'm pretty sure I saw a still of him dunking a basketball or something.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I understand that it might work from a motivation perspective and inner change perspective. Problem is that you folks forget this is a movie, where people watch things happen.

My point is, from a narrative perspective, having him fight crime because he wants to feel empowered only to switch to fighting crime because he realizes he has a responsability has a lot less impact in a VISUAL NARRATIVE than having a radical change from cheap wrestler and TV gigs to a full blown crimefighter.

The change depicted in the first is mainly inner. He changes his motivations but not what he's doing because he was already doing it before (even if it was clumsy or reckless). For an audience to truly grasp a change in behaviour, you need to really split the two behaviours apart by more than just inner turmoil. People need to see that change and it's not just as impactful if you just have him change the way he busts bad guys...

I completely agree.

Mhm. The problem is that the wrestling route has already been done in Raimi's Spider-Man.

You're missing the point. I didn't say, "he should wrestle", I said that he should use his powers for personal gain at first.

Sports?

He wrestled in Ultimate Spider-Man.

Didn't he play basketball or something as well in USM?

No, it really doesn't. There are TONS of reasons why Spider-Man is a unique character. It doesn't matter that he puts on a costume and starts fighting crime before Uncle Ben dies, it matters that he learns responsibility from Uncle Ben's death. The fact that he fights a couple of thugs and missuses his powers to get back in the face of the police shows a clear representation of how he is being irresponsible.

What matters is that he learns the lesson, it doesn't matter when. If he puts on the costume before Ben's death it will most certainly not dilute the experience.

But having Spider-Man fight crime before Uncle Ben's death undermines the lesson of irresponsibility, if not outright invalidates it. He's already using his powers in ways that help others.

I mean, the whole point of the origin is that Uncle Ben dies because he chooses not to stop the burglar when he had the chance. How does that work now?

 

[Nathan]

I mean, the whole point of the origin is that Uncle Ben dies because he chooses not to stop the burglar when he had the chance. How does that work now?

Still works pretty much the same. Say he uses crime fighting as an outlet for his daily life frustration. He doesn't do it out of the goodness of his heart. He does it because he can and to get an ego boost. He's reckless, he is called a menace, he'll go "Screw you guys, handle this **** yourself." Then he let's that one criminal go that will eventually kill Uncle Ben, and he learns "With great power, comes great responsibility."

 

[Troy_Parker]

You're missing the point. I didn't say, "he should wrestle", I said that he should use his powers for personal gain at first.

I don't really think there are many ways to do that outside of wrestling/showman career.

Didn't he play basketball or something as well in USM?

Probably at school or something, but not for money/personal gain which is what we're talking about right now.

 

[Troy_Parker]

I mean, the whole point of the origin is that Uncle Ben dies because he chooses not to stop the burglar when he had the chance. How does that work now?

Lol, they reshot Ben's death scene. Someone's (who looks like the thug who kills Ben in the set pics) running from a store (guessing he's stolen something) and the owner is chasing after him and is asking somebody to stop him. Peter looks and keeps walking. A few steps later, Peter hears gunshots.

Same thing, my friend.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Still works pretty much the same. Say he uses crime fighting as an outlet for his daily life frustration. He doesn't do it out of the goodness of his heart. He does it because he can and to get an ego boost. He's reckless, he is called a menace, he'll go "Screw you guys, handle this **** yourself." Then he let's that one criminal go that will eventually kill Uncle Ben, and he learns "With great power, comes great responsibility."

So Peter Parker uses his powers irresponsibly to fight crime, then his Uncle Ben dies and he learns to use his powers responsibly to fight crime?

I don't really think there are many ways to do that outside of wrestling/showman career.

There are more ways for Peter to be a showman than just wrestling. Like TV shows, for example.

Probably at school or something, but not for money/personal gain which is what we're talking about right now.

So? Have him play sports professionally.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

So? Have him play sports professionally.

Maybe in the next reboot mate

 

[Scarlettess]

You're missing the point. I didn't say, "he should wrestle", I said that he should use his powers for personal gain at first.

Getting revenge is personal gain. Also realistically someone who was getting picked on as much as Parker it is completely understandable that the first thing they'd want to do is get back at them, and beat the **** out of them, that need not be limited to the very people who bullied him, but everyone who is a bully.

I also think your forgetting one thing, Peter was always a good person through and through, so why wouldn't he want to go and stop other people being humiliated and bullied the way he was? Sounds like Peter Parker to me.

 

[Troy_Parker]

There are more ways for Peter to be a showman than just wrestling. Like TV shows, for example.

So Peter finds an ad somewhere, maybe online or in a newspaper realises that he can use his powers to make money?

Hmm... sounds awfully familiar.

So? Have him play sports professionally.

Spider-Man or Peter Parker?

Both are horrible ideas. Not to mention Peter suddenly being great at sports overnight might come under questioning.

 

[Nathan]

We have to take the other story elements into account. He wants to know what happened to his parents, goes to Oscorp and seeks out Connors. With that, I doubt he has any time at all, to go and gain fame and fortune. It's one thing to have nightly trips around town, and another to pursue a Sports/TV career. That's basically abandoning his goal to find out more about his parents.

 

[Troy_Parker]

We have to take the other story elements into account. He wants to know what happened to his parents, goes to Oscorp and seeks out Connors. With that, I doubt he has any time at all, to go and gain fame and fortune. It's one thing to have nightly trips around town, and another to pursue a Sports/TV career. That's basically abandoning his goal to find out more about his parents.

Sorry, what were you saying? t:

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Sorry, what were you saying? t:

Reminds me of a back-up feature in ASM annual 5

 

[GuestStar2004]

this film has to be different from the last trilogy so expect alot of differences so it doesnt just look like a repeat

i know many wont be happy if they dont see the wrestling match and stuff but think of the critics and general public who will complain that they seen it all already

 

[DyeLorean]

I'm sorry, but everytime I see Scarlettess' avatar I can't help but see Spider-Man getting a hot massage from the Lizard.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Is 'EW' applicable to this image?

 

[Michael Frost]

Getting revenge is personal gain. Also realistically someone who was getting picked on as much as Parker it is completely understandable that the first thing they'd want to do is get back at them, and beat the **** out of them, that need not be limited to the very people who bullied him, but everyone who is a bully.

This is all inner turmoil. People would just see him fight crime before and then, after the uncle dies, he fights some more crime. Except in a "responsible" manner now

I also think your forgetting one thing, Peter was always a good person through and through, so why wouldn't he want to go and stop other people being humiliated and bullied the way he was? Sounds like Peter Parker to me.

You just answered your own question there.

It does not sound like Parker at all to become a bully himself. That's a massive departure from the character's personality. If you're paying any attention to his attitude after he gets the powers, he still gets picked on by bullies and preserves the passive/victim angle.

Parker is not Magneto. He does not get back at the people who once harmed him now that he can. Speaking of which, there's an actual Spidey villain that represents the polar opposite of exactly this kind of virtue from Peter. Know who it is? Doc Ock.

Doc Ock is the one who'd get back at the bullies. Not Peter.

 

[Godzilla2014]

This is all inner turmoil. People would just see him fight crime before and then, after the uncle dies, he fights some more crime. Except in a "responsible" manner now



You just answered your own question there.

It does not sound like Parker at all to become a bully himself. That's a massive departure from the character's personality. If you're paying any attention to his attitude after he gets the powers, he still gets picked on by bullies and preserves the passive/victim angle.

Parker is not Magneto. He does not get back at the people who once harmed him now that he can.

I completely agree.

 

[Scarlettess]

I'm sorry, but everytime I see Scarlettess' avatar I can't help but see Spider-Man getting a hot massage from the Lizard.

t: you know it to be true.

 

[Scarlettess]

This is all inner turmoil. People would just see him fight crime before and then, after the uncle dies, he fights some more crime. Except in a "responsible" manner now



You just answered your own question there.

It does not sound like Parker at all to become a bully himself. That's a massive departure from the character's personality. If you're paying any attention to his attitude after he gets the powers, he still gets picked on by bullies and preserves the passive/victim angle.

Parker is not Magneto. He does not get back at the people who once harmed him now that he can. Speaking of which, there's an actual Spidey villain that represents the polar opposite of exactly this kind of virtue from Peter. Know who it is? Doc Ock.

Doc Ock is the one who'd get back at the bullies. Not Peter.

I was actually thinking about that right after I posted it, knew a comment would be had about it. Still even good people make mistakes, which is exactly what Parker did when he let the robber get away, and is exactly what he'll do in the movie, so in that retrospect, its the same as the origin in that he refused to stop a guy because he didn't believe it was his responsibility, that leads to his Uncle Ben getting killed.

For the fighting crime before his uncle dies, He not just being a bully for the sake of being a bully, he's stopping the bullies by given them a taste of their own medicine. Peter will still think hes doing right, even when he might not be pulling his punches or aware of how much damage he is causing. Then when no one apreciates him maybe he stops doing it altogether, then his Uncle dies.