The Aronofsky Draft

Discussion in 'The Wolverine' started by Alexei Belyakov, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Spider-Fan

    Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014 Champion

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    Wolverine is attracted to darkness, yes. But, that has limits IMO, and some of those ideas cross boundaries for me.
     
    #51
  2. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    Ah, man, Darren took him to some really dark places. The stuff on the train is morbid, but there are much darker moments for the man.

    There's a scene early on where a man burns incense in a dark room. In the background, a man tied to a chair is being brutally beaten and tortured by Shingen's men. The beating suddenly stops as the smoke of a cigar hits the bloodied man. WOLVERINE is revealed sitting on a chair directly in front of the man. He sucks on his cigar as the other men wipe the sweat off their brows. WOLVERINE tells the man "You know, bub, I don't think you're the brightest bulb. Everyone knows you need protection in this town. But not you, bub. And you had to go and make things worse. You told someone we don't like something about us. Something useful. Something to try to hurt the old man. Well, the old man didn't like that. Now you're gonna have to tell us something about them. Something that they don't want us to know. WOLVERINE stands up and says "When this cigar runs out, so does your life." He walks away and the screen fades to black as we hear the man's screams.
     
    #52
  3. craigdbfan

    craigdbfan Well-Known Member

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    There's such a thing as too much and most of the things you're describing meet that criteria.
     
    #53
  4. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    I think sadly, we're still at a point in the genre where any exploration of sexual undertones whether they're romantic or morbid, still remains taboo.

    The main reason for that of course being that studios target these films primarily at the kids, despite the fact that the true demographic for them begins with teenagers/young adults.

    The best example I can think of overtly safe writing in regards to sexuality is Branagh's Thor. In the MCU, Thor falls for Jane after 48 hours. In the real world that would never happen - and if it did, a one night stand would not be out of the question. But we know one night stands don't exist in the MCU. At least not after the studio abandoned the anti-safe approach Favreau delved into with Iron Man (Leslie Bibb's one night stand with RDJ) & Norton with TIH (Banner's inability to sleep with Betty due to his condition).

    Humans have sex. Sex has a vast amount of degrees.

    In order for this CBM genre to grow, characters need to start behaving more human. Sex is too big a part of the human psyche to completely ignore.

    The studios are slowly figuring it out though. BLACK SWAN made $330 Million worldwide, $107 in the U.S. alone with a $10 Million production cost, an R-rating and a lesbian sex scene.

    "Safe" no longer equates to more profit. The last Wolverine film was completely geared at children and look how that turned out.

    Some of the Marvel characters need to roam in a canvas free of restraint. Wolverine, The Punisher & Daredevil simply work better when brought down to our level.

    That's why I loved what Darren did with this story. He fiercely tackled the Wolverine legend & grounded it in the real world ten steps ahead of Nolan.
     
    #54
  5. BMM

    BMM Well-Known Member

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    From a differentiation stand point, I think it sounds brilliant. I'm hopeful the story that has taken its place is good too, though.
     
    #55
  6. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    You and me both. Truly transcendent stuff.
     
    #56
  7. Hunter Rider

    Hunter Rider Ronin

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    Oh man, so close to some transcendent adamantium rumpy. Oh well, give Dazza a honk on the horn and see if he fancies bringing Mighty Mouse to the screen for sexy times!
     
    #57
  8. craigdbfan

    craigdbfan Well-Known Member

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    X-Men Origins: Wolverine was indeed a steaming pile of filth with that said I wouldn't want Wolverine portrayed as this weird sexual deviant who's also a sadomasochistic to top it off. That's as bad as what they did to him in that candyland Tom Rothman plagued Origins film. Going to extremes in most cases always turns out badly and I think Mangold's Wolverine is reaching a middle ground where it won't be anywhere near as sterile as XO:W but nowhere near as demented as what you're describing either.

    There's already a puddle of blood in one of the shots with Silver Samurai so that already is a major step up from Wolverines last outing.

    Exploring a characters sexuality isn't a bad thing but Aronofsky as great of a director and writer he may be I do believe has had a couple of stumbles. I absolutely detested his Year One script. There was nothing transcendent about that other than being a complete desecration of the Batman mythology.

    While I like some things from the supposed Aronofsky Wolverine script you're describing, a lot of it feels really off base on who the character is and ventures into the unnecessary.
     
    #58
  9. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    I think you're overreacting to the position he's in during the scene.

    If you found yourself in a toxic relationship/rebound and you happen to kill for a living, how would you react to that predicament? You're not gonna kill Yukio for seducing a random woman and I seriously doubt you'd walk away (or look away).

    Witnessing public sex and enjoying it doesn't make you a sexual deviant or a sadist. It makes you heterosexual.

    All in all, the whole thing explores character & real themes. It reaffirms that Wolverine is in a bad place in his life & living in the real world.

    Captain America woulda ran from the train and probably vomited. But that's because he's from an era where sex in public, better yet lesbian sex in public - was completely unacceptable.

    This is Wolverine. Killer, animal, hero, warrior.
     
    #59
  10. SoNicRaDiATioN

    SoNicRaDiATioN Well-Known Member

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    Some of the most unimaginative people I've come across on the internet are comic fans. God forbid a director take a character places the fans have never seen before (or imagined). Everything in those scene discriptions is completely in step with what I can imagine the character doing in those circumstances. Especially when removed from the comic panels and filtered through the cinematic lens. Brought to life in a medium which demands so much more. And which should be aspired to.

    Here is something interesting Chris Claremont said of the comic genre some years ago "If you freeze a character into a certain set of perameters, usually for convenience - of other writers, of readers, of merchandisers, whatever - then before long that character runs the risk of becoming sterile. Writers and ultimately readers, may stop thinking of the character as a vital, real, three-dimensional being and instead come to percive him (or her) as an agglomeration of stock elements. Wind them up, turn them loose, and put them through their stock paces. Nothing changes, nothing grows."

    This can certainly be applied to the film genre. If people aren't willing (or allowed) to push the boundries, or to take creative chances, then the genre will get stale and irrelevant really quick. Cynicism will set in as the genre becomes nauseatingly predictable. Sooner or later it will have to evolve. Or it will die. Why not start now?
     
    #60
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  11. Alexei Belyakov

    Alexei Belyakov Well-Known Member

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    There's only one Shingen in Aronofsky's draft & that's [crime] Lord Shingen Yashida, Mariko & Kenuichio's father.

    No.

    Her only love is Wolverine.

    No, she never rejects Wolverine. They're a couple. Shingen tears them apart by marrying her off to Noburo as a gift to The Yakuza.

    He's a crime boss.

    The ninjas are The Hand. Wolverine trains with them & fights them.

    He's a bastard from start to finish.

    Nope.

    He absolutely loves Mariko, but cares about Yukio in a toxic way.

    She sleeps with him out of duty. Its not violent, just depressing.

    The main "good guy" after Wolverine is Ogun - the man who trains Wolverine. After him is Frank, a Yakuza boss who helps Wolverine fight Shingen. Next is Stick who's Ogun's second in command and spars with Wolverine during the training.
    We are 100% in agreement.

    The genre's gotta keep evolving. Nolan took it far, but there's plenty of room to go from there.
     
    #61
  12. Project862006

    Project862006 Well-Known Member

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    @SoNicRaDiATioN

    go read darren's year one script he made alfred a black mechanic named big al who didn't know or live with bruce and his parents

    dont talk to us about imagination unless you want characters and mythology disrespected
     
    #62
  13. Spider-Fan

    Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014 Champion

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    I disagree as I don't see Wolverine doing that in those scenarios. I think better risks can be taken with Wolverine that are more in line with the character.
     
    #63
  14. danoyse

    danoyse Snikt. Stab. Repeat.

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    Exactly. It's not a matter of "not having imagination" because you don't like where Aronofsky was supposedly taking this. Not liking it is not liking it. I feel he was taking it from one extreme - Origins, which was the horribly watered down version of the character in a movie that barely fit in with the movies it was supposed to be a prequel to, and such a bad prequel that it didn't even explain where his own name came from - to an extreme R-rated movie that takes the character into this demented sadomasochistic realm that I don't think it needs either.

    And that's not a matter of not understanding the character, it's a matter of just not liking how it was going to be told.
     
    #64
  15. def28

    def28 Well-Known Member

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    This happens in the comics as well as film all the time. Its nothing new, especaily with this franchise. Some will dig it and agree with the change, others not so much. Nothing really wrong with that.
     
    #65
  16. BoredGuy

    BoredGuy Chairman of the Bored

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    I'm all for original ideas, but like others said above, I don't feel some of those scenes would be right for Logan.

    You said it's not torture, just molestation.. which is still a crime
    It's psychological and emotional torture
    for wolverine to watch yukio basically rape an innocent woman is in no way heroic.

    I'm all for exploring sexuality and his violence, and other adult ideas.
    But knowing Aronofsky's history with such subjects in his films, I think it would've come off too demented and uncomfortable.

    Wolverine has the animal in him, but above all, he's still a hero.
     
    #66
  17. gkokujin

    gkokujin Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea.

    too bad it wont make it to the screen as Aronofsky intended.
     
    #67
  18. Whiskey Tango

    Whiskey Tango Well-Known Member

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    she molests some chick but it's ok because she doesn't harm her? wtf
     
    #68
  19. Infinity9999x

    Infinity9999x Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I see what you're saying. The problem at least for me is that I think it's out of place in THIS particular story. Wolverine during his spy days, pre weapon x op, when he was a killer who enjoyed killing, I could see that scene working. However the Japanese storyline is past that. This is the type of scene that should have been in the origins movie.
     
    #69
  20. Great Mind(s)

    Great Mind(s) Broken

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    He wasn't even a killer who enjoyed killing in that movie.
     
    #70
  21. Infinity9999x

    Infinity9999x Well-Known Member

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    I know, that's the point. That period of time was when wolverine was really a bad guy. He killed because it was his job and a part of him enjoyed it. The movie should have had scenes like the one described.
     
    #71
  22. SoNicRaDiATioN

    SoNicRaDiATioN Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading that script awhile back, and hating it. A bad Batman script doesn't mean we'll get a bad Wolverine one....

    I don't see Wolverine or the mythology being disrespected in those scene discriptions.

    That's fair enough. I think it's in his nature to do those things under those circumstances. Everything in those discriptions read "Wolverine" to me.

    I understand this and agree to some extent. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. And my comment about "not having imagination" wasn't aimed at anyone in particular on this thread, it's more of an overall frustration I've had with comic fans for awhile now. More often than not they are too literal-minded when it comes to comic adaptations. Maybe I'm too open-minded in this respect. I had no problems whatsoever with Peter and MJ having sex on top of the Brooklyn Bridge in Cameron's script. It seemed well within the scope of possibility to me that they would have sex (and in places no one else could). I have similar feelings to the real world dimensions of Aronofsky's treatment.

    If you don't explore these characters on film beyond the panels from which they originate, then it's a disservice to the genre imo.
     
    #72
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  23. marvelrobbins

    marvelrobbins Well-Known Member

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    If anything the crappy Batman year One script may have been more frank Miler than
    Aronofsky which I kinda suspect after hearing details from his rewrite on The Wolverine.

    I have no problem with the sexual stuff I am hearing from that draft.Just like In amazing spider-man series I am hoping they have Peter and Gwen having sex before she Is killed.
    I prefer Michelle Pfeiffer's catwoman over anne hathaway's In part because Nolan
    downplayed the dominatrix overtunes to Catwoman.
     
    #73
  24. def28

    def28 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with that being "a disservice to the genre". Thats a bit much. What goes inbetween the panels can be a good thing or bad. Most want a faithful representation, as would anyone watching a novel adaption. Since this film is based on a particular stroyline most want this film as close as possible but theres about 40 years of material exploring Wolverine in the comics. One movie is not gonna go beyond that. And moving away from the panels has not made Wolverine a better character so far. Even with 4 movies they havnt came close to reaching his potential imo. It needs to try and grab the essence of why the character works in this story and setting as much as possible.

    I personally wouldnt mind seeing Aronfskys take. The dudes a master story teller, and I have faith in anything he does. I really want a more adult approach to the character. But adding a harsher take with more sex and violence wont appeal to everyone.
     
    #74
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  25. SoNicRaDiATioN

    SoNicRaDiATioN Well-Known Member

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    I want a faithful representation as well, I don't think those scenes are unfaithful. It captures elements, or spirit of the character that we've seen through the 40 years of storylines.

    When I say "explore beyond the panels" I don't mean changing the core of the character as developed in the comics, but to expand the canvas for Wolverine's characteristics to exist in. There are things to be inferred.

    I agree that Wolverine hasn't come close to his potential yet on screen, but feel that some of these scene descriptions go a long way into capturing the essence of why the character works in this particular story.

    I agree completely.
     
    #75

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