SilentWarriorZ
lemonidas
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2013
- Messages
- 537
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 11
it seems as if like shield has found all seven dragonballs and wished him back .
It's not that I'm worried how he gets brought back, it's that he's brought back at all. It cheapens the initial drama and makes it so any death from here on out is automatically a "well, they'll be brought back somehow" moment. I don't like it. If you do, that's fine.
It only cheapens the initial drama if it doesn't come with drama of it's own. I'd agree with you if there were zero consequences to Coulson being brought back. While we haven't seen them yet, I'm positive that there will be consequences once we find out what the story is, both from the ominous sounding "he can never know" and from the fact that in every Joss Whedon project where he's resurrected a dead character, there were huge consequences that came as a result of the character coming back. Angel, Darla, and Buffy all had intense psychological trauma that came as a result of dying and coming back to life, and Spike was trapped as a ghost and teetering on the edge of being sucked into hell for half a season, and we later found out he was brought back to be used as a pawn by a major villain who proceeded to dick him around for several episodes.
Love him or hate him, in Whedon's works both death and resurrection have a lot of weight to them, I don't think it will be any different in the case of Coulson. Wether he's an android or a clone who's been programmed to think he's Coulson or he's Coulson brought back to life through some method he would find morally offensive, there will be serious **** hitting the fan when he find out what the score is.
You make some good points, but it doesn't address my initial concern, which is that deaths in the story you're telling will cease to have as much weight if we know that it can be undone later. It doesn't matter (to me) that the character comes back with a lot of emotional trauma. It still means that the next time someone "dies" in the universe, it will lack as much drama as it could have had.
I think that will only be the case if it A) Happens all the time, and B) is treated like it's no big deal. If it only happens once (which it only has so far) and is treated like a HUGE deal (which I'm sure it will be for all of the reasons I stated above) then I think we'll be fine.
We know someone is going to die in either A2 or A3. It's inevitable. What's going to be the thought we all have at that point? "They may not really be dead."
The reason we have that thought is because of Coulson. That's why I don't like it. It automatically makes you shrug off any future death in the series.
1: The notion of "they may not really be dead" is never a shrug around here, is a tsunami of feverish, desperate, half crazed theories to stem the unthinkable, ungodly notion that a character we like might not be in the next movie.
2: It would be that way wether Coulson was brought back or not. We're comic book nerds, we're not all that smart.
3: Again, Coulson being back won't cause anyone to shrug off anything if his coming back is both unique and a monumentally huge deal with serious consequences.
Plus, if it DOES turn out that the Coulson on TV isn't really Coulson, just a clone or an LMD who THINKS he's Coulson, then they didn't bring Coulson back anyway, they just created a new related character with a whole lot of angst.
Just because we, as comic book fans, are used to it doesn't make it right. Apply what we're used to in a movie that isn't comic-oriented. What would audiences think if people in Breaking Bad or Dexter suddenly sprang back from the dead, whether they were explained away as faking their death or clones or whatever. It would absolutely cause any future deaths on those shows to be met with suspicion. That's not what you want.
a) Neither BB nor Dexter belong to genres where miracles, magic, and science fiction are a part of the everyday process. So yeah, people would definitely balk at "I'm not *really* dead....I got better" moments in those shows. Marvel belongs to the superhero genre, where resurrection is as common as farts at a chili cook-off. Anybody who's miffed or mystified or mixed up by somebody coming back from the dead in a comic book or comic-book movie universe really knows nothing about the genre at all.
b) As The Question keeps pointing out: Coulson is the *only* resurrection in the MCU so far. And it's being treated with great gravity, mystery, and weight. And it might not even turn out to be an actual resurrection at all, but something else.
So don't freak out. Again, nobody's handing out "get out of death free" cards anywhere, nor will audiences perceive it that way.
Just because we, as comic book fans, are used to it doesn't make it right.
Apply what we're used to in a movie that isn't comic-oriented. What would audiences think if people in Breaking Bad or Dexter suddenly sprang back from the dead, whether they were explained away as faking their death or clones or whatever. It would absolutely cause any future deaths on those shows to be met with suspicion. That's not what you want.
I didn't say that. I'm saying that comic book fans are naturally more inclined to think that way than non comic book fans.
Well, Breaking Bad or Dexter are bad examples, what with them having no sci-fi or fantasy elements to them.
And I completely disagree with you there. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a perfect example. But Angel and Buffy died and came back to life on that show, and it didn't diminish future character deaths because they were handled the right way. It depends entirely on how you do it. If you treat characters coming back as no big deal and do it all the time, the yes, you're right. If it's rare and treated as a huge event, then you don't have that problem. Right now, in the MCU, it's rare and being treated as a huge event, so I don't think it's going to spoil audiences at all.
I addressed the BB and Dexter thing in my reply to Sam.
I appreciate that Whedon takes his character deaths seriously. I've listened to his comments on Coulson's death. I still disagree with the decision, especially since it boiled down to bringing back a character just because he liked the actor portraying the character rather than it being necessary for future stories. It complicates things more than it helps to make those future stories better.
Did Angel coming back in Buffy season 3 cheapen Tara's death, or Anya's death, no. Did Spike coming back in Angel season 5 cheapen Cordelia's death, or Doyle's death, or the unbelievably sad event that was Fred's death, no. Did Angel coming back, or Buffy coming back, or Spike coming back have consequences, yes and they led to some pretty dark stuff. I see no reason why Whedon wouldn't do the same to Coulson. The more that Whedon likes a character, the more he makes them suffer, its kind of his thing.
Its probably my fault for just starting a series that finished like 5 years ago haha
You're not alone, I just started watching Buffy only a few days ago.
What if nobody dies, but instead gets severely injured? Wouldn't that be more interesting?
I haven't finished Angel, this crushed me.
Its probably my fault for just starting a series that finished like 5 years ago haha
You're not alone, I just started watching Buffy only a few days ago.
Glad to see both shows are getting some new fans t:yeah finished that now I'm on Angel, I'm a big fan now.
Samuel L. Jackson: "I dont think we begin shooting [The Avengers: Age of Ultron] before March of next year. I know were shooting in London, that James Spader is Ultron and going to be the bad guy, and that we added Ms. [Elizabeth] Olsen, but I dont know what shes doing, if shes on the inside or the outside. I havent seen a script."