The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 28

[Alexei Belyakov]

The easiest way of knowing how safe the most recent MCU movies have been, is to watch one of them & then watch TDK, X2, First Class, X-Men or SM2 right after. You immediately see just how uninspired these films are. When I hear people defend Cap & deem it the best of the bunch, I just can't help but think of the scene where "Bucky dies". What a terrible scene that was. Or pretty much every scene Red Skull was in. So much ham there that I was reminded of Dominic West's Jigsaw. Finally the "triple-ending". Kids running around with fake shields, Cap waking up & closing the film with "I had a date" & then an after-the-credits scene with the guy hitting a punching bag. I enjoyed Thor despite its-uber light content, I survived IM2 through Rourke & Rockwell's presence alone, & I loved Iron Man. But Cap? Wow. I still can't believe they would make such an incomplete movie. Such a strong first act wasted on a film with a mediocre second act & a non-existing third act. There's no safer MCU movie than Cap.

 

[marcvader]

I said essentially the same thing but because I'm a new poster people jumped my back about it?

haha

Anyway, I agree too Spider-Who is essentially agreeing with my perspective.

Shoot, you're lucky ShadowlordX and Dragonator aren't around at the moment. Lol

 

[DyeLorean]

OMG! Watch this!!!

[YT]http://youtu.be/2aLgdMz0p5Y[/YT]

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Wrong way to start out ... sure DC has only primarily put out Batman and Superman movies (with good reason, technology wasn't there to do Green Lantern till recently) and Batman and Superman are literally 2 of the absolute elite 3 in terms of best and most widely known comic book characters. You can't fault them for that. The other characters on the DC roster just don't matter as much. I feel Marvel's roster is deeper, but DC has the best of the bunch in terms of richness of mythology and story telling with Batman. Superman not far behind has had some very good movies, all he needs is to be re-adpated for modern audiences, which looks to be a done deal with "Man of Steel"

It's not about quantity of characters, or quantity of average or slightly above average movies.

To me it's about QUALITY. If it's just quality coming from two characters, who cares as long as it's good?

Superman: TM, Superman II, Batman '89, and Batman Returns paved the way for the comic book film genre. They are innovative.

Batman Begins reached the pinnacle of story telling for the comic book genre.

The Dark Knight eclipsed even it's genre limitations and shattered the glass ceiling for comic book movies to be taken seriously by film snobs.

And hopefully, and if I were a betting man would be sure bets ... The Dark Knight Rises, and Man of Steel look to be massive hits as well.

You're also forgetting very memorable performances such as:

Nicholson's Joker
Pfieffer's Catwoman
Devito's Penguin
Hackman's Luthor

and even given the times, and though it is kind of corny to watch today ...

Terrence Stamp's General Zod was brillaint.

No, trust me, I truly appreciate what has transpired thus far with DC, Batman, and Superman. I haven't forgotten actors like Stamp and Michelle but most of youth today have yet to see Superman 1-3 and Batman & Batman Returns.

I feel the same way on every point you stated, but I think that DC needs to expand further with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Flash and Green Lantern (in my opinion, they are just as important to the DC as Batman and Superman are -- the formation of The Justice League). I realize it's not DC's fault, WB owns the rights to these characters, but things need to be done. DC has to push WB harder.

 

[D'Evils]

The easiest way of knowing how safe the most recent MCU movies have been, is to watch one of them & then watch TDK, X2, First Class, X-Men or SM2 right after. You immediately see just how uninspired these films are. When I hear people defend Cap & deem it the best of the bunch, I just can't help but think of the scene where "Bucky dies". What a terrible scene that was. Or pretty much every scene Red Skull was in. So much ham there that I was reminded of Dominic West's Jigsaw. Finally the "triple-ending". Kids running around with fake shields, Cap waking up & closing the film with "I had a date" & then an after-the-credits scene with the guy hitting a punching bag. I enjoyed Thor despite its-uber light content, I survived IM2 through Rourke & Rockwell's presence alone, & I loved Iron Man. But Cap? Wow. I still can't believe they would make such an incomplete movie. Such a strong first act wasted on a film with a mediocre second act & a non-existing third act. There's no safer MCU movie than Cap.

Absolutely.

You can tell how un-inspired, and "by the numbers" the MCU films have been. Like I said, cookie cutters looking to dig on the biggest bucks.

Captain America was so BLAND I walked out w/ my girlfriend on intial viewing.

I didn't see it again in full until a later date with some buddies of mine who wanted to go. How about a conflict resolution with the film's MAIN protagonist that is so ant-climactic, that it's literally one giant commercial for another movie.

In the middle of a bout with the film's villian, suddenly he's teleported to Loki / Thor's domain?

Huh? What?

That's really how you're going to end the movie? Like I said, the title character's credibility is lost when you shoe horn an agenda for another movie into the film.

I would've done something radically different with Captain America.

I would've tried to make an actual original and interesting story, with themes, social commentary, etc.

What is the modern concept of America and how it is drastically different from that of the 40's?

I'd have Captain in his 40's element, then have him smack dab in modern times in a conflict of our own generation's Vietnam, the "war on terror" in Afghanistan and Iraq and I would deal with dilemma Steve Roger's would face with his old world, original American values and what he percieves to be right and wrong, and see the fish out of water tale in an interesting setting, that is relatable.

It would actually take risks, and could potentially have high reward. An actual entertaining and potentially thought provoking film.

Is TDK just about Batman / Joker / Gotham City? No.

Is X2 simply about Wolverine / Cyclops / Magneto and Mutants? No.

There is sub text and depth.

Instead, we get the "comic accuracy" and the results is COMPLETELY bland to me.

 

[D'Evils]

but I feel that DC needs to expand further with Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern.

Why though? Just because comic book movies are being spewed out by studios a plenty? I heard they may be making an "Ant Man" movie or whatever.



Talk about overkill.

If a character isn't popular enough, or with a richness of a mythology to make a movie, let alone a franchise ...

Why force it, and risk utter failure?

Green Lantern failed because of complete lack of enthusiasm from the film makers and audiences alike.

Green Lantern as a character is pretty hard to take seriously, even on the surface, so it was fighting a tremendous up hill battle.

 

[Crimson King]

Why though? Just because comic book movies are being spewed out by studios a plenty? I heard they may be making an "Ant Man" movie or whatever.



Talk about overkill.

If a character isn't popular enough, or with a richness of a mythology to make a movie, let alone a franchise ...

Why force it, and risk utter failure?

Green Lantern failed because of complete lack of enthusiasm from the film makers and audiences alike.

Green Lantern as a character is pretty hard to take seriously, even on the surface, so it was fighting a tremendous up hill battle.

Wait, do you want movies to take risks or not? If you're going to create a film universe, why confine it to two or three characters? There are hundreds of stories to tell with dozens and dozens of great characters. Thank god Marvel producers don't have your short-sightedness. I hope DC doesn't either.

 

[T"Challa]

Well, cool..that your opinion. And you're in the minority. U walked out of Cap, people at the theatre i was gave an applause. Sure its cool that movies like X2 gave some social commentary and had underlying themes but thats not for every movie out there. Cap is essentially a throwback "good guy giving the bad guy whats coming to him" movie...and u know what? It was fun as hell. i enjoyed the crap out of it, and so did plenty of others.

 

[Adamantium Man]

Green Lantern failed because of complete lack of enthusiasm from the film makers and audiences alike.

Audiences can't be expected to have enthusiasm for a movie if they don't know jack about the hero. Green Lantern failed because it was a bad movie. (It can even be debated whether the film makers were enthusiastic about the flick.)

Anyway, how 'bout them Avengers?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Why though? Just because comic book movies are being spewed out by studios a plenty? I heard they may be making an "Ant Man" movie or whatever.



Talk about overkill.

If a character isn't popular enough, or with a richness of a mythology to make a movie, let alone a franchise ...

Why force it, and risk utter failure?

Green Lantern failed because of complete lack of enthusiasm from the film makers and audiences alike.

Green Lantern as a character is pretty hard to take seriously, even on the surface, so it was fighting a tremendous up hill battle.

Well considering that WB wants a JLA film, I suppose it's necessary to introduce these characters. Although it's been hinted that WB executives want to forgo origin stories and just green light the JLA project, I oppose it.

Green Lantern is a great character to unveil on the big screen (and can be taken seriously) but the studio clearly did not learn from Marvel's mistakes. They chose the wrong approach, script, cast (except for Mark Strong) and director. Of course it was going fail...

It might be overkill, at which point, I suggest for DC and WB to take their time and release a JLA movie in the next decade.

Trust me, Ant-Man isn't going to get the green light.

 

[D'Evils]

Wait, do you want movies to take risks or not?

I want them to take risks worth taking.

Why is there a need for a "film universe"?

If you want to make a movie about the Avengers, just make it. If you want to make a film that tells the story of the JLA, just make it.

Do it without shorting the concept of the individual character's stories and integrity by blending all the characters together in cross pollination in their individual stories.

Just like comic books. What purpose does "continuity" serve? They are individual stories.

Why does there need to be an entire "film universe" with "continuity" blanketed across multiple films, when actors are gained and lost in roles, thus alienating parts of the audience? ... or maybe certain movies haven't been seen by audience members that compromise some larger movie.

Just tell the story you want to tell, without all the self referencing, in jokes, nods to everything else, etc.

It gets to be too much. The only people I've seen really get into that stuff is the hardcore fans of the characters anyway. What purpose at all did finding Thor's hammer in IM 2 serve THAT particular story?

None. What so ever.

 

[D'Evils]

Green Lantern failed because it was a bad movie. (It can even be debated whether the film makers were enthusiastic about the flick.)

That's what I said ...

 

[Adamantium Man]

I want them to take risks worth taking.

Why is there a need for a "film universe"?

If you want to make a movie about the Avengers, just make it. If you want to make a film that tells the story of the JLA, just make it.

Do it without shorting the concept of the individual character's stories and integrity by blending all the characters together in cross pollination in their individual stories.

Just like comic books. What purpose does "continuity" serve? They are individual stories.

Why does there need to be an entire "film universe" with "continuity" blanketed across multiple films, when actors are gained and lost in roles, thus alienating parts of the audience? ... or maybe certain movies haven't been seen by audience members that compromise some larger movie.

Just tell the story you want to tell, without all the self referencing, in jokes, nods to everything else, etc.

It gets to be too much. The only people I've seen really get into that stuff is the hardcore fans of the characters anyway. What purpose at all did finding Thor's hammer in IM 2 serve THAT particular story?

None. What so ever.

Except it is a new concept, one that hasn't been done before. Y'know, one of those "risk-taking" concepts that you seem to be so fond of. (And the number of Avengers trailer downloads seems to indicate that it's not just hardcore fans who think so.)

Oh, what the hell. Have fun bonding with Alexei. I'm off to bed.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

OMG! Watch this!!!

[YT]http://youtu.be/2aLgdMz0p5Y[/YT]

can't watch this....

 

[Flint Marko]

Some down right bad, but are disguised and glossed over by fans of the character merely because minute details correlate to their comic book counter part, or the look of the characters and films are ultra faithful, or production value is good.

I enjoy the thoughtful discussion you're bringing to the table, but this is the one thing I take issue with. As it's been stated, you are firmly in the minority. Most people, including critics, fans, and the GA, love these movies and what Marvel has done. So no, I don't think we're 'glossing over' anything.
What were your thoughts on Thor though?

 

[Crimson King]

It gets to be too much. The only people I've seen really get into that stuff is the hardcore fans of the characters anyway. What purpose at all did finding Thor's hammer in IM 2 serve THAT particular story?

None. What so ever.

You mean the after-credits scene? The one that took place after the movie? That one? That ruined IM2 for you?

Sorry, but there are WAY more people excited about these connected movies than there are people who aren't. We all get that you're in the latter group. Great. Let's move on.

 

[Quasimod0]

Complaining about red skull getting sucked into thor's world isnt a valid complaint. Villains get killed acciddentally on their own all the time in superhero stories. He wanted too much power and he ended up being defeated by it because he couldnt control it. The only difference is that when he was sucked into the portal, he went somewhere that mattered. To a place populated by other characters in the same film universe. For that i am grateful. I love having a shared universe

 

[DyeLorean]

can't watch this....

No?
Ok let's try again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2aLgdMz0p5Y
http://youtu.be/2aLgdMz0p5Y

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2aLgdMz0p5Y[/YT]

It's the sweded trailer from the Avengers. Very funny

 

[D'Evils]

You mean the after-credits scene? The one that took place after the movie? That one?

It's on the reel of the film, it's part of that movie haha ... and that was just a for instance. The entire character of Black Widow and her screen time and scenes? Useless. Sam Jackson's Avenger's character spoon feeding Tony Stark and killing the momentum of the protagonist dealing with his issue on his own? Useless.

That ruined IM2 for you?

No, Iron Man 2 was ruined well before that ...

It was almost ruined in the opening scene with Vanko's over the top, laugh inducing screaming when his old ass father finally died.

t:

It quickly recovered with a very good scene when Tony has the Senate hearing, very much a Howard Hughes on steroids type moment, where something special seemed to be promised to us audiences members that could rival the first film

then fell completely off the cliff with the scene in the donut shop IE Avenger's Agenda, and the the brainless fight between Rhodey and Stark at the party, which rivaled the worst scenes of any comic book movie.

It's cool if you're excited for it. I understand. More important let's see how they EXECUTE the idea.

As I said, there is no gushing over Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, or Captain America.

Average or slightly above average responses. We'll see what happens with Avengers.

 

[T"Challa]

You mean the after-credits scene? The one that took place after the movie? That one? That ruined IM2 for you?

Sorry, but there are WAY more people excited about these connected movies than there are people who aren't. We all get that you're in the latter group. Great. Let's move on.

+1...Marvel has grossed over 2.2 billion off 5 movies grounded in this universe. They just destroyed a record for downloads in the past week for the Avengers. The movie that is supposed to be the crown jewel of this connected universe. From that, i say the general audience likes it just fine. You're allowed to dislike it but don't act like Marvel got this thing all wrong cuz everything points to the contrary

 

[DoomsdayApex]

@D'Evil's:

On second thought, perhaps a JLA film without prior origin stories is not that bad of an idea but the ratio unimaginably shifts from High Risk/High Reward to High Risk/Medium Reward.

The same could have been said about The Avengers if it were not for the origin individual films. Sure, a large portion of them haven't been stellar but they've brought attention and revenue.

 

[Flint Marko]

You're allowed to dislike it but don't act like Marvel got this thing all wrong cuz everything points to the contrary

Wonderfully said

 

[D'Evils]

@D'Evil's:

On second thought, perhaps a JLA film without prior origin stories is not that bad of an idea but the ratio unimaginably shifts from High Risk/High Reward to High Risk/Medium Reward.

The same could have been said about The Avengers if it were not for the origin individual films. Sure, a large portion of them haven't been stellar but they've brought attention and revenue.

I agree, my dude

 

[Crimson King]

It's on the reel of the film, it's part of that movie haha ... and that was just a for instance. The entire character of Black Widow and her screen time and scenes? Useless. Sam Jackson's Avenger's character spoon feeding Tony Stark and killing the momentum of the protagonist dealing with his issue on his own? Useless.


No, Iron Man 2 was ruined well before that ...

It was almost ruined in the opening scene with Vanko's over the top screaming when his old ass father finally died.

t:

It quickly recovered with a very good scene when Tony has the Senate hearing, very much a Howard Hughes on steroids type moment, where something special seemed to be promised to us audiences members that could rival the first film

then fell completely off the cliff with the scene in the donut shop IE Avenger's Agenda, and the the brainless fight between Rhodey and Stark at the party, which rivaled the worst scenes of any comic book movie.

It's cool if you're excited for it. I understand. More important let's see how they EXECUTE the idea.

As I said, there is no gushing over Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, or Captain America.

Average or slightly above average responses. We'll see what happens with Avengers.

Oh there's plenty of gushing over TIH, IM2, Thor and Cap. You just have to look beyond your own nose. I have my problems with each, but there's no arguing the fact that they succeeded more than they failed. IM2 is largely considered the weakest MCU movie and it fared much better than the likes of a host of other CBMs, critically and financially.

Also, if you think the IM/War Machine fight in Tony's home was one of the worst in comic movies, I'm not sure we have much else to talk about.

 

[THE MR. TERRIFIC]

No?
Ok let's try again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2aLgdMz0p5Y
http://youtu.be/2aLgdMz0p5Y

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2aLgdMz0p5Y[/YT]

It's the sweded trailer from the Avengers. Very funny

LOL! I was gonna post this but you beat me to it. My favorite part is when Loki throws Tony out the window and lands on the car in Caps uniform like WTF? LOL! That confused me in the real trailer as well!