The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 54

[Poni_Boy]

Yes, and the movie Asgardians are not Gods. They are powerful alien beings perceived as Gods. We don't even know if movie Odin has the OdinForce as we know it, considering he is no where near being omnipotent. I mean, the guy has to engage lowly Frost Giants in battle. When Odin from the comics could literally snap his fingers and explode an entire army of them.

Very good point. Until we're told otherwise he doesn't have it.

Did anybody find it a bit of a mistake that Tony is calling Thor a "demi-god". That would imply that he is half human and half god/alien but we all know that he's just full god/alien.

Not a huge deal but it sort of bugged me.

You're about 6 pages late buckaroo

 

[craigdbfan]

So has anyone given a good explanation or are we just rolling with it?

 

[Poni_Boy]

steve.

they called it the steveforce.

i knew it! Damn you scuba steve!

 

[BigThor]

Gotcha. So according to Marvel: Odin-Force is the power that enables Odin to be the stongest of the Asgardian Gods. This power is near infinite and seems to allow Odin and later Thor to become almost invincible, and seems to allow them to rival the powers of the strongest beings in the universe but the limits of it's power are unknown.

Also, the origin of the Odin-Force prove that it is not Odin's inherent power but one he helped create:

Spoiler

The Odin force was first created when Odin and his two brothers Vili and Ve tried to take down Surtur after they had finished taking down The frost giant, Ymir. When they go there, they tell the fire people that they have come to learn the undiscovered. Odin asks Surtur if its true that he would one day destroy the nine worlds. Surtur answers him yes and explains how he shall do it using his Sword Of Doom and the Eternal flame. Odin remarks back "Wouldn't it be better it the flame was taken out and the sword broken?". Surtur then returns saying "The flame cannot be extinguished but they could try to break his sword". Surtur would then slam his fist on the ground as demons started to come from all corner then the brothers Vili and Ve would summon the raging storms of the arctic to stop the demons. It worked and started to freeze them.

Next the three brothers joined into one to battle Surtur. As the battle went on they found out they couldn't best Surtur so they made one final blow which broke Surtur's sword. Vili one of the brothers states it to be a victory while Odin simply says that he will come after them. Ve then would cut down the flame of destruction so that even if Surtur were to reforge his sword he could not kindle it with the flame so that the world wouldn't end. Odin then starts to run to the portal to the nine worlds then releases his brothers who aren't following. One of the brothers says that if they go Surtur shall follow, then suddenly as Surtur emerges from the brimstone lake, a blast would come knocking Odin out of the realm Muspelheim and knocked him out as well. When he had awoken, the entrance to the realm was gone and he had the combined powers of the his brothers which made the Odin Force, however he knew his brothers were dead.

Which means it's not his and his alone. Hence, not an inherent power.

You're preaching to the choir because I know all of this, Odin didn't stumble upon his brothers powers he woke up and had already required naturally it without him knowing.

 

[Poni_Boy]

So has anyone given a good explanation or are we just rolling with it?

Yes, simple: The Asgardians are not Gods in the MCU. Tony was ad libbing in his usual cocky manner.

 

[The Morningstar]

Seems to me that when his brothers died their powers went into Odin. So it's not his natural power.

 

[BigThor]

Very good point. Until we're told otherwise he doesn't have it.

So how did he know when the Frost Giants were attacking the vault, how did he strip Thor of all his power and place an engraved enchantment on Mjonlir with mere words?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Damn you scuba steve!

 

[Poni_Boy]

You're preaching to the choir because I know all of this, Odin didn't stumble upon his brothers powers he woke up and had already required naturally it without him knowing.

You're still not understanding, though. The Odin-Force is not Odin's inherent power. He can exist with or without it. Just like Thanos and the Gauntlet, Quasar and the Nega Bands, etc.

You say Odin is much more powerful than Thanos but refuse to acknowledge that he is so much more powerful BECAUSE of the Odin-Force. Has Odin ever fought Thanos without the use of the Odin-Force? Because that would be the only "fair" fight.

 

[craigdbfan]

Yes, simple: The Asgardians are not Gods in the MCU. Tony was ad libbing in his usual cocky manner.

I get that but that doesn't make it any more correct. Still wrong as he's full Asgardian (alien). It's not as if Odin conceived Thor with a human chick.

Not a huge deal but for those of us who are big mythology fans it will always be a mistake. One can always just kick it off by just assuming that Tony like you mentioned is just being comically ignorant as he doesn't seem to be a greek/norse mythology buff anyway. Not his area of expertise.

 

[BigThor]

Seems to me that when his brothers died their powers went into Odin. So it's not his natural power.

The "super soldier serum" is Steve's natural power, nor is Hulk's gamma radiated abilities but it's still HIS power since he received it naturally upon his brother's death.

You're still not understanding, though. The Odin-Force is not Odin's inherent power. He can exist with or without it. Just like Thanos and the Gauntlet, Quasar and the Nega Bands, etc.

You say Odin is much more powerful than Thanos but refuse to acknowledge that he is so much more powerful BECAUSE of the Odin-Force. Has Odin ever fought Thanos without the use of the Odin-Force? Because that would be the only "fair" fight.

Thanos also aguments himself regularly with technology and biological enhancements, so is that fair?

 

[BigThor]

Double post

 

[Poni_Boy]

So how did he know when the Frost Giants were attacking the vault, how did he strip Thor of all his power and place an engraved enchantment on Mjonlir with mere words?

Because they chose to show that he's very powerful. Also he's the King of Asgard. Loki's power was upped when he ascended to the throne. Doesn't mean Loki had the Odin-Force.

What I'm saying is, unless there is mention of the Odin-Force in the MCU it doesn't exist. Same goes for everything else that isn't mentioned.

 

[BigThor]

Because they chose to show that he's very powerful. Also he's the King of Asgard. Loki's power was upped when he ascended to the throne. Doesn't mean Loki had the Odin-Force.

What I'm saying is, unless there is mention of the Odin-Force in the MCU it doesn't exist. Same goes for everything else that isn't mentioned.

Loki's power was not upped when ascended to the throne, where are you getting this from?

 

[Poni_Boy]

I get that but that doesn't make it any more correct. Still wrong as he's full Asgardian (alien). It's not as if Odin conceived Thor with a human chick.

Not a huge deal but for those of us who are big mythology fans it will always be a mistake. One can always just kick it off by just assuming that Tony like you mentioned is just being comically ignorant as he doesn't seem to be a greek/norse mythology buff anyway. Not his area of expertise.

Yes it's correct because in the MCU Asgardians do not equal Gods. They are powerful aliens from an alternate dimension. Not Gods.

Norse mythology has nothing to do with it. This is MCU mythology. Meaning, they are right in how they present their story.

 

[BigThor]

I get that but that doesn't make it any more correct. Still wrong as he's full Asgardian (alien). It's not as if Odin conceived Thor with a human chick.

Not a huge deal but for those of us who are big mythology fans it will always be a mistake. One can always just kick it off by just assuming that Tony like you mentioned is just being comically ignorant as he doesn't seem to be a greek/norse mythology buff anyway. Not his area of expertise.

Exactly

 

[The Morningstar]

The "super soldier serum" is Steve's natural power, nor is Hulk's gamma radiated abilities but it's still HIS power since he received it naturally upon his brother's death.

Those things are not natural. Natural is a power that is inherent to their being. That they are born with. That they naturally have.

If Odin's brothers didn't die he wouldn't have the OdinForce. So it's not a natural part of his being, it was gifted to him.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Loki's power was not upped when ascended to the throne, where are you getting this from?

From the fact that he was able to wield Odin's spear that only the King of Asgard is able to use. That, in and of itself, means that Loki became more powerful when he became King of Asgard. Doesn't mean he knew how to use that power correctly to stop Thor from whopping him.

 

[BigThor]

From the fact that he was able to wield Odin's spear that only the King of Asgard is able to use. That, in and of itself, means that Loki became more powerful when he became King of Asgard. Doesn't mean he knew how to use that power correctly to stop Thor from whopping him.

Nah, Gungnir doesn't have an enchanment on it so pretty much anyone can use it.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Those things are not natural. Natural is a power that is inherent to their being. That they are born with. That they naturally have.

If Odin's brothers didn't die he wouldn't have the OdinForce. So it's not a natural part of his being, it was gifted to him.

How is this hard to understand?

 

[BigThor]

Those things are not natural. Natural is a power that is inherent to their being. That they are born with. That they naturally have.

If Odin's brothers didn't die he wouldn't have the OdinForce. So it's not a natural part of his being, it was gifted to him.

How is this hard to understand?

Just because it's not natural doesn't mean it's not his, just like Cap and Hulk's abilities not being natural doesn't mean it's not theirs.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Just because it's not natural doesn't mean it's not his, just like Cap and Hulk's abilities not being natural doesn't mean it's not theirs.

Nobody said it's NOT Odin's power. We're saying it's not his inherent power. Thor has the inherent power to manipulate lightning. He was born with it.

 

[Mattallica]

You call it "overly defensive", I call it "having an opinion that's not in the majority".....

.

Wow this sounds like the same kind of crap i got from this guy when i posted a theory awhile back, whats funny is i was the one that got the heat as he was the most well respected member here or some such label, sounds like someone needs to change their screen name maybe "Big Baby" or in the Sopranos vein "Big *****"

 

[The Morningstar]

Now you're just completely changing the argument. So you admit the OdinForce isn't Odin's natural power? The OdinForce is just as much an augmentation or tool as the IG or HotU is to Thanos. It's just that he was given it, instead of acquiring it.

 

[bonzob2000]

It's not a mistake. Tony Stark isn't the official MCU continuity definer. He's riffing, based on what he himself knows as a character. And I think he primarily uses the term because it sounds better in context of his headcount to use a three syllable description than a one syllable one. It's more about the rhythm of the language than anything else.

We comic fans can get awfully pedantic sometimes. In that same scene, I remember when there was argument as to why Stark said "we have a hulk," instead of "we have a Thor." How about because the former is alliterative and hilarious, and the latter sounds completely idiotic? Do you really think Stark cares about relative power levels or origins?