The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[AndrewGilkison]

Keaton's Batman was in Japan (he had that Japanese suit of armor in his house that Vale and Knox were looking at and he said "I bought it in Japan").

 

[cryptic name]

That sounds cool. But with Rob looking so introverted, I like the idea of him never leaving Gotham which would add to his feelings of isolation. Keaton had that vibe too. Like he’s been in Gotham for way too long. He’s been in prison for 20 years and he has no intention on escaping that prison.

I always had the impression Keaton travelled in at least a similar way to what we think of as the Batman origin. The whole “I bought it in Japan” scene reads that way to me.

 

[CondimentKing]

I definitely prefer for Pattinson Bruce to have been stuck in Gotham the whole time. We got the League stuff with Bale and it had such a present role there (and was great) but I want something different here and it would definitely fit with how they're portraying the character so far. This Batman will probably be more scrappy and resourceful, so him adapting and surviving in Gotham the whole time could add to that. It's more self-contained, focused and grounded - in this case, Bruce has more of a boots on the ground approach if he hasn't even left Gotham yet (and a stronger connection to the city). You could also play that angle for young naive and angry Bruce too.

I saw Keaton as worldly and well travelled due to his wealth re: the Japan thing but I can't imagine him being trained by the League or some other secret organization lol

 

[cryptic name]

The whole League thing is pretty specific to Begins.

 

[shauner111]

The league training Bruce was a Nolan thing, but it’s not so realistic if you think of Bruce leaving Gotham in his early 20’s only to return several years later pretty much at the same time that Bat thing appears. It’s less suspicious if Bruce always stayed put in Gotham. Just like it’s suspicious for Batman to fly a fancy jet.

I forgot about that Keaton line. He definitely could have went to Japan on a business trip. Rob doesn’t seem like the type to even do that as Bruce Wayne. He’s obsessed, pale from barely seeing the light of day (constant rain also helps). I’d be surprised if he ever left Gotham.

I don’t think we’re getting a beautiful mansion by the countryside with caves underneath. Even that is an escape from the city and it’s great don’t get me wrong. You can do isolation with that, Dracula style. But it’s more insane to have him living in the middle of the city where everything is easy to access and it’s a pure rat race. The business, his home life, the cave, it could be all be in the same building. And he spends more time in the tunnels by himself.

 

[FatRobin]

It's a bit difficult for me to believe that he can fight crime the way he does without ever leaving Gotham, and only by training with Alfred/by himself. But maybe that's just because I haven't seen it executed.

The league training Bruce was a Nolan thing, but it’s not so realistic if you think of Bruce leaving Gotham in his early 20’s only to return several years later pretty much at the same time that Bat thing appears. It’s less suspicious if Bruce always stayed put in Gotham. Just like it’s suspicious for Batman to fly a fancy jet.

You're right about this but it also made his fighting skills more believable. That plus the traveling the world and learning about criminal psychology thing.

 

[cryptic name]

I could make peace with Bruce never having left Gotham.
But on the subject of him returning and Batman appearing, I do like the idea that was going around last year that Reeves took some inspiration from Zero Year and Bruce was in Gotham for some time active as Batman before publicly making it known that Bruce Wayne had returned.

 

[J.Drangal]

To me, Keaton's Bruce Wayne saying he brought a battle armor from Japan, while standing in a large gallery featuring a whole bunch of other armor, pretty much confirms he's been exploring the whole world for training...

We're now very used to systematically seeing origin stories in comic book movies, but I really like how Batman 89' kept his character's early years a mystery. Plus, they cleverly chose some very visually striking armor that really sparks your imagination. I thought it worked great and actually served this iteration by giving it that, once again, mysterious aura.

On topic, I'm glad that Reeves version, like Burton's, will feature a Batman already in activity, right off the bat (lame pun intended). If Bale's Batman had Alfred, Rachel, and Lucius around him, I could very well see Pattinson being more of a loner, pretty much like Keaton was. I can picture him having trained all over the world, but without really finding any mentor. No Ducard, no Zatara, etc. Just years of silence, determination and learning. Only techniques, no guidance. A path that, once in Gotham again, will probably contribute to his struggle between being a vigilante, lost in his blind revenge, or a true justice guardian.

 

[CondimentKing]

Yeah, I like the mystique too. I don't need to know how this Batman became Batman at all including training (although I would love some sort of hallucinogenic flashback to when Bruce is holding the bell in his hand and looking at the bat in the manor in Year One as a replacement for the overdone parents murder scene), but a few nods that make it clear that he's never left Gotham could be interesting as points of conversation with Alfred.

 

[PepS]

If there is any truth in these leaks at all, it really does feel like Aronofsky and Miller’s Year One take was a real inspiration for this.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I don't like Bruce not leaving Gotham. That makes him more static as a character and makes him being Batman even less believable because... where did he learn how to fight like that? How is he able to be the World's Greatest Detective? You need to live a life if you are going to acquire all those skills. Staying in one city for all of your life isn't going to get you that.

I also don't want to go back to having him train with the League of Shadows. That was an invention of Batman Begins and I would rather not have a rehash of that. Just say he trained all over the world before he became Batman. We don't need to go into details if we aren't doing another origin story. But I hate the idea that he never left Gotham and stayed there until he became Batman.

 

[FatRobin]

I don't like Bruce not leaving Gotham. That makes him more static as a character and makes him being Batman even less believable because... where did he learn how to fight like that? How is he able to be the World's Greatest Detective? You need to live a life if you are going to acquire all those skills. Staying in one city for all of your life isn't going to get you that.

Unless they're taking inspiration from Earth One and have Bruce be incompetent, I guess.

 

[cryptic name]

Yeah, I like the mystique too. I don't need to know how this Batman became Batman at all including training (although I would love some sort of hallucinogenic flashback to when Bruce is holding the bell in his hand and looking at the bat in the manor in Year One as a replacement for the overdone parents murder scene), but a few nods that make it clear that he's never left Gotham could be interesting as points of conversation with Alfred.

That’s a cool idea. The presence of the scratches on Falcone’s cheek makes me think there’s going to be quite a bit of Year One that’s canon to this Batman so it’s not out of the question.

 

[shauner111]

Research + undercover work + living in a city like Gotham for 30 years is a good enough triple whammy for me. He doesn’t need to travel in order to be a great detective.

Alfred training Bruce himself or bringing in ppl to teach Bruce is also enough for me. This won’t just be a Batman Begins backstory.

 

[DeadlyWest]

Honestly I'd say just don't even really talk about the specifics of his training or where he went. As some have said, keep it mysterious. Allude to the fact that he has been trained, but don't say where, maybe say for how long. Leave it at that and it makes it an unknown as to what Bruce is capable of.

 

[J.Drangal]

I'll be honest, regarding Batman's origins, the only things I need are here:

I'm more interested in stories taking place in Gotham. I like to think of this city as its own mythological world, with all of these archetypal larger-than-life characters being trapped there, their tragedy and madness perpetually colliding.

 

[Invader Joker]

Unless they're taking inspiration from Earth One and have Bruce be incompetent, I guess.

Judging by how Bruce is the world's greatest detective on this one, seeing the beatdown he have to the thug and how he made his own gadgets, the Batmobile and batsuit I really doubt they are making him incompetent.

 

[cryptic name]

Could be way off base, but since the suit reveal my thought had been they were alluding to his travels and training with the small touches of samurai armor elements in his batsuit. A small show-don't-tell element that I like.

 

[TheVileOne]

Bruce Wayne disappearing for seven years and training with ninjas is hardly the definitive origin for his training.

I got the sense that Bruce Wayne had many different teachers in his youth who imparted different things to him.

I don't consider the Batman Begins version the definitely only version. It was just a streamlined version of it, just like making Ducard and Ra's al Ghul the same person and making Ra's into Bruce's teacher and mentor.

 

[shauner111]

I really don’t think he needs to train out of the country in order to be the Batman that we know. Gotham is a massive, eccentric, diverse city. And the Wayne’s are rich, they can bring the mentor to the student for ONE adaptation.

Yes Bruce could have left Gotham for a shorter amount of time. Or Alfred was one skilled mofo in this and trained Bruce, set him on the path until Bruce took it further by studying like a madman. Physical and mental preparation on home turf. That’s what I would do if i was making my own Batman story. Trying different angles with a similar outcome is what makes it fresh for a writer.

Also, I’m sure he’s a good detective but becomes better by the end of the film thanks to Edward. Battinson is obviously going through growing pains here and it’s quite obvious that he’s not exactly looking at “the other perspective” yet. Riddler will teach him to not be so tunnel vision. So why is it so hard to believe that Bruce Wayne was different than Bale’s in that...he never left Gotham...he never cared much about trying to see the point of view of the criminal mind. All he cares about is vengeance for what HE went through and probably a very basic “I’m gonna stop these criminals from hurting ppl in my city”. That’s not enough Bruce. That’s what this movie is about. So I totally buy him staying in Gotham like some obsessive lunatic who never wants to sleep incase he misses something in his city.

 

[TheVileOne]

I really don’t think he needs to train out of the country in order to be the Batman that we know. Gotham is a massive, eccentric, diverse city. And the Wayne’s are rich, they can bring the mentor to the student for ONE adaptation.

Yes Bruce could have left Gotham for a shorter amount of time. Or Alfred was one skilled mofo in this and trained Bruce, set him on the path until Bruce took it further by studying like a madman. Physical and mental preparation on home turf. That’s what I would do if i was making my own Batman story. Trying different angles with a similar outcome is what makes it fresh for a writer.

Also, I’m sure he’s a good detective but becomes better by the end of the film thanks to Edward. Battinson is obviously going through growing pains here and it’s quite obvious that he’s not exactly looking at “the other perspective” yet. Riddler will teach him to not be so tunnel vision. So why is it so hard to believe that Bruce Wayne was different than Bale’s in that...he never left Gotham...he never cared much about trying to see the point of view of the criminal mind. All he cares about is vengeance for what HE went through and probably a very basic “I’m gonna stop these criminals from hurting ppl in my city”. That’s not enough Bruce. That’s what this movie is about. So I totally buy him staying in Gotham like some obsessive lunatic who never wants to sleep incase he misses something in his city.

Who is to say a young billionaire never went outside the country?

 

[BatLobster]

The whole League thing is pretty specific to Begins.

Don't forget that Arkham Origins commercial



But yeah, I'm agnostic on the training/origin front. I like the more epic scope it gives the story if Bruce leaves Gotham for a period of time and I do like the idea of Bruce Wayne of being a worldly guy with a lot of knowledge of different cultures, but I could also see that not being a necessary component for this rough around the edges version of the character.

 

[Neno_Kos]

Bruce Wayne disappearing for seven years and training with ninjas is hardly the definitive origin for his training.

I got the sense that Bruce Wayne had many different teachers in his youth who imparted different things to him.

I don't consider the Batman Begins version the definitely only version. It was just a streamlined version of it, just like making Ducard and Ra's al Ghul the same person and making Ra's into Bruce's teacher and mentor.

Bruce Wayne as rich man could have had all training he wanted in his home if he wanted it. All under persona of young rich playboy learning at least basic martial art skills for fun in spare of his time. He could have many different teachers over years.

This also doesnt blow his cover of someone suspecting him he would go at night dressed as Bat fight crime. I dont prefer it but it can work. I still like Bruce traveling world at some point, take experience of different cultures and skills, ofcourse all again under cover of being rich playboy who doesnt have anything else to do but enjoy life.

 

[TheVileOne]

Bruce Wayne as rich man could have had all training he wanted in his home if he wanted it. All under persona of young rich playboy learning at least basic martial art skills for fun in spare of his time. He could have many different teachers over years.

This also doesnt blow his cover of someone suspecting him he would go at night dressed as Bat fight crime. I dont prefer it but it can work. I still like Bruce traveling world at some point, take experience of different cultures and skills, ofcourse all again under cover of being rich playboy who doesnt have anything else to do but enjoy life.

Sure but he also could've gone on on a bunch of segmented training sabbaticals over multiple years at different times too.

 

[FatRobin]

The leak someone mentioned in the general thread: