The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[I Am The Knight]

looks like a cell phone photo

A Batselfie, maybe?

 

[DKDetective]

Reminder all, although we may discuss leaked content here you cannot post anything that has been leaked and may be copyrighted or pirated. The Hype can get in serious trouble as a result.

C. Lee is not as forgiving as I am.

 

[TheVileOne]

A lot of people slept on Haunted Knight.

I love Haunted Knight, but those are mostly good little short stories.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Reminder all, although we may discuss leaked content here you cannot post anything that has been leaked and may be copyrighted or pirated. The Hype can get in serious trouble as a result.

C. Lee is not as forgiving as I am.

What did I miss? Lol

 

[shauner111]

Should we assume No More Lies was a fake too? It’s the same guy as this fake leak.

 

[thebatfan5194]

Should we assume No More Lies was a fake too? It’s the same guy as this fake leak.

Didn’t the No More Lies thing get copyright claimed by WB though? That would make it legit right?

 

[souvlaki]

Might be a bit controversial to say on a comic book forum, but BTAS is the definitive Batman for me. Anything that possibly inspired it would interest me greatly. I also don't mind a lot of the silver age cheese. The 60s/70s run of Spider-man comics are my favorite.

I don't think this is controversial at all. BTAS is the definitive interpretation for a lot of people that grew up in the 90's. Even when they adapted directly from the source material (Laughing Fish, The Demon's Head, etc.) they managed to improve upon the original story which is no small feat. I still prefer most of the origin stories from BTAS over their comic book counterparts.

That being said, if you haven't already done so, Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers' 70's run ("Strange Apparitions" tpb that was previously mentioned) is a must read. BTAS probably lifted more from their run than any others.

 

[DKDetective]

I don't think this is controversial at all. BTAS is the definitive interpretation for a lot of people that grew up in the 90's. Even when they adapted directly from the source material (Laughing Fish, The Demon's Head, etc.) they managed to improve upon the original story which is no small feat. I still prefer most of the origin stories from BTAS over their comic book counterparts.

That being said, if you haven't already done so, Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers' 70's run ("Strange Apparitions" tpb that was previously mentioned) is a must read. BTAS probably lifted more from their run than any others.

Yep, BTAS is very special and I think it will be one of the most timeless interpretations of Batman given the wonderful combination of past, present, and future technology the show's aesthetic combined.

I have no idea why DC refused to re-issue Strange Apparitions. It has been out of print for 20 years now. You would think given its huge influence on popular adaptations like Batman 89 and BTAS, DC would realize it would sell really pretty well. I've been trying to find a copy in decent condition, but the prices are astronomical on Amazon.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Englehart was meant to appear at a convention in my city that met the same fate as every other potential source of pleasure this year. I was gutted, I wanted to see if I could get him to go into his conspiracy theories about Christopher Nolan plagiarizing him.

 

[shauner111]

How do you plagiarize when you’re adapting? Lol wut

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Ahahah oh my God. Steve Englehart has a digital bootleg of his Batman comics on his website presumably out of... spite? What a strange man.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

How do you plagiarize when you’re adapting? Lol wut

The Dark Knight movie

Homeboy's a character.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah... love Englehart as a writer, but the similarities are coincidences at best.

 

[shauner111]

Even if they’re not coincidences, it’s hilarious that he thinks a film is the equivalent of somebody making another comic book and ripping him off.

 

[shauner111]

Before **** explodes here on Saturday...

i really wanna talk about that leak that Wayne Manor is at the center of Gotham this time, with tunnels around the city that Batman uses to drive his batmobile in & out of. It’s likely a fake but I find that so interesting to feature that in a new movie.

 

[souvlaki]

Yeah, I love Englehart but that article he wrote is really stretching. Pretty sure either Christopher Nolan or David Goyer have sited the Englehart/Rogers run as a major influence on their interpretation of Batman. Not sure what else he'd expect outside an acknowledgment of their influence, even if they lifted parts of his story intentionally.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I've never heard that and don't really see any Englehart influence. Nolan's trilogy draws a ton from O'Neil, but while Goyer and maybe Jonathan have likely read Steve's work I'd be shocked if Nolan was more than passingly aware of his existence.

'89 on the other hand is very Englehart-esque. Especially the earlier (better) drafts of the screenplay.

 

[BatLobster]

To be completely fair, while I think Englehart's accusations are misguided...it does speak to a larger issue. Which is that the comic book writers who create the source material that then gets mined for these billion dollar movies get jack squat for it. It's a bit messed up.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

To be completely fair, while I think Englehart's accusations are misguided...it does speak to a larger issue. Which is that the comic book writers who create the source material that then gets mined for these billion dollar movies get jack squat for it. It's a bit messed up.

Didn't Starlin get paid more for KG Beast in BvS than he did for Thanos?

 

[TheVileOne]

To be completely fair, while I think Englehart's accusations are misguided...it does speak to a larger issue. Which is that the comic book writers who create the source material that then gets mined for these billion dollar movies get jack squat for it. It's a bit messed up.

I agree, but that's more of a systemic, institutional issue for the industry. Writers and artists for major publishers are mostly doing freelance work, and all their creations become the property of the publishers. Also, they're not unionized.

Also, if you think about it, what the founding fathers of Batman did by blatantly ripping off and plagiarizing the Shadow, and there's documented evidence that Batman stories were whole cloth plagiarizing The Shadow, were far more egregious. Because that's actual plagiarism.

What happened with Dark Knight isn't really plagiarism unless Christopher Nolan, Jonathan Nolan, and David Goyer are all passing off the work off as their own, and Dark Knight is recognized as a DC Comics adaptation.

 

[TheVileOne]

Didn't Starlin get paid more for KG Beast in BvS than he did for Thanos?

I don't know what the situation is now, but I recall reading during the years of Kirby's family being in legal conflict with Marvel Entertainment that DC Comics had a better royalty program that compensated certain creators for their contributions and characters. But then I also remember reading that Siegel and Schuster were also destitute when they died.

 

[BatLobster]

I agree, but that's more of a systemic, institutional issue for the industry. Writers and artists for major publishers are mostly doing freelance work, and all their creations become the property of the publishers. Also, they're not unionized.

Also, if you think about it, what the founding fathers of Batman did by blatantly ripping off and plagiarizing the Shadow, and there's documented evidence that Batman stories were whole cloth plagiarizing The Shadow, were far more egregious. Because that's actual plagiarism.

What happened with Dark Knight isn't really plagiarism unless Christopher Nolan, Jonathan Nolan, and David Goyer are all passing off the work off as their own, and Dark Knight is recognized as a DC Comics adaptation.

Oh I completely agree with all of that too. Definitely a systematic issue. The filmmakers aren't at fault at all. The comics industry was simply not set up to anticipate how much value the stories would ultimately have.

 

[TheVileOne]

Oh I completely agree with all of that too. Definitely a systematic issue. The filmmakers aren't at fault at all. The comics industry was simply not set up to anticipate how much value the stories would ultimately have.

This is probably a tough pill for people to swallow, and I admit some of this is hindsight, but there is also an issue with the creators not having enough awareness to advocate for themselves and their work and basically not getting everything in writing. IMHO there is some responsibility for the creators giving their major work to the big companies and submitting to the publishers owning all their ideas and creations.

When TMNT creators Eastman and Laird were shopping TMNT around, they remained the owners of the IP, so they got a piece of everything that happened over the years as long as they owned it. Granted, they did it this way because of what happened to people like Jack Kirby and others.

 

[BatLobster]

This is probably a tough pill for people to swallow, and I admit some of this is hindsight, but there is also an issue with the creators not having enough awareness to advocate for themselves and their work and basically not getting everything in writing. IMHO there is some responsibility for the creators giving their major work to the big companies and submitting to the publishers owning all their ideas and creations.

When TMNT creators Eastman and Laird were shopping TMNT around, they remained the owners of the IP, so they got a piece of everything that happened over the years as long as they owned it. Granted, they did it this way because of what happened to people like Jack Kirby and others.

I also agree. It's a complex issue. It's not fair and ideally it would be different, but it's also not a black and white issue where you can just say they were intentionally screwed over and it's as simple as that. It's a lot of things. Nobody could've foreseen the whole industry that would arise from comic book characters when things were just starting out. The writers would've really had to organize effectively, but that's easy to say in hindsight. And sadly, even at the height of their pop culture relevance, comics are still a dwindling medium, so the writers seemingly don't have a ton of power.

Good example with Eastman and Laird. I think you can also point to George Lucas having the foresight to secure the merchandizing rights to Star Wars as a precedent for that one too.

 

[weezerspider]

I also agree. It's a complex issue. It's not fair and ideally it would be different, but it's also not a black and white issue where you can just say they were intentionally screwed over and it's as simple as that. It's a lot of things. Nobody could've foreseen the whole industry that would arise from comic book characters when things were just starting out. The writers would've really had to organize effectively, but that's easy to say in hindsight. And sadly, even at the height of their pop culture relevance, comics are still a dwindling medium, so the writers seemingly don't have a ton of power.

Good example with Eastman and Laird. I think you can also point to George Lucas having the foresight to secure the merchandizing rights to Star Wars as a precedent for that one too.

He’s become a punching bag in his later years due to the prequels, but Lucas was a genius and a pioneer and I hope this fact isn’t eventually lost because he made some bad movies as an older guy.