The BATSUIT Thread

[FunkMiller]

Now I'm curious; has it ever been detailed what specifically about Finger's suggestions translated directly to the final design? Cowl, cape, ears, etc. are very generic descriptors. You don't necessarily arrive to that original Batman design based solely on those terms.

Bob Kane’s ‘The Bat-man’ looked like this:

Everything else you know as Batman came from Finger.

 

[Travesty]

lol, oh boy....

 

[Jekecy]

Bob Kane’s ‘The Bat-man’ looked like this:

Spoiler

Everything else you know as Batman came from Finger.

Right, I got that part. My question is whether the specific design elements that ultimately made up the final suit were also constructed from Finger's imagination. I'm aware he recommended the changes, but did he dictate how those changes could/would look?

To liken it to the iPod and iPhone; Steve Jobs is credited as the father of those devices. But it was only through the hands and creative eye of Jony Ive (and his team) to make the final product.

 

[FunkMiller]

Right, I got that part. My question is whether the specific design elements that ultimately made up the final suit were also constructed from Finger's imagination. I'm aware he recommended the changes, but did he dictate how those changes could/would look?.

Well, I don’t know if dictate is the right word... Finger was too shy a man for that, but he came up with everything, and pretty much told Kane what to draw, yes.

Think of the relationship as Finger being the main creative force, and Kane as the artist who brought Finger’s ideas to life.

This is why Kane was such a gigantic a**hole. He basically rewrote history to claim he was the creative driving force behind Batman, when all he really did was think up the name, and bring Finger’s creations to life.

 

[Vaibow]

A lot of people praise Bats’ intro in BvS, but for me it’s always been marred by that incredibly awkward shot of him hidden on the wall. Once the shot is in focus, he looks uncomfortable and barely hanging on. How the suit was lit didn’t lend itself to the ‘creature of the night’ tone whatsoever. The following CG shot of him “crawling” on the ceiling was unconvincing too. Conceptually a compelling direction for Batman, but I thought the execution was way off.

Burton worked wonders on that suit. Especially seeing the BTS footage, it’s impressive how he weaved the restrictions into a flowing language of stillness for the character. The shot of Keaton seemingly floating across the staircase in Ace Chemicals is one of my favorite moments.

Good call on the ceiling crawl - it looked unconvincing even though cool - his Batman should have been about stealth, smoke bombs - I mean - why was he waiting for the cops? Anyways - he just looked too big and bulky to be pulling American ninja warrior stuff

 

[2kt09]

Good call on the ceiling crawl - it looked unconvincing even though cool - his Batman should have been about stealth, smoke bombs - I mean - why was he waiting for the cops? Anyways - he just looked too big and bulky to be pulling American ninja warrior stuff

I took that impossible escape as being what those kids or cops think they saw. Man..I just keep finding new parallels without ever having to watch the flick. This is mirroring Superman as this messiah to those flood victims.

 

[FunkMiller]

I took that impossible escape as being what those kids or cops think they saw. Man..I just keep finding new parallels without ever having to watch the flick. This is mirroring Superman as this messiah to those flood victims.

Imagery over narrative logic. Snyder’s biggest failing.

 

[2kt09]

Imagery over narrative logic. Snyder’s biggest failing.

what year is this?

 

[Vaibow]

Bob Kane’s ‘The Bat-man’ looked like this:

Everything else you know as Batman came from Finger.

Shark repellent??

 

[FunkMiller]

Shark repellent??

Lol. That was 100% Semple Jnr’s work, I think

 

[Tasogare Sebei]

I *so* agree. The black makeup just takes me out, feeling increasingly anachronistic- particularly as technology moves forward. Spider-Man and Deadpool both have the eyes that define their signature looks, with full emotional expressiveness due to movement of the brow or lens or both. It’s crazy to me that Deadpool has functional white eyes but we don’t want that for Batman... especially considering his human eyes are almost never shown under the mask in the comics expressly because they look so silly. And purely from a tactical security standpoint, a thoroughly modern Batman would have to contend with scanners/cameras that could identify him by his eyes. I don’t love the voice scrambler, but I understand it. The eyes are similar. And while I’m a total nut for practical effects and costuming, this is one of the very few areas where I really feel CGI is superior and has caught up to its potential. The apes CGI is some of the best and most emotive I’ve ever seen - I gotta imagine Reeves could bring CGI enhancement to Batman’s costume in a way that would make it the most elegant, comic accurate and nuanced superhero suit currently on screen.

The special effects technology already exists to warrant an emotive Batman cowl. Combine CGI in certain filming sequences with comparable technology from the following videos and a comic accurate Batman cowl becomes reality. Notice the expressiveness in the brow ridge; it truly enhances the theatricality of the lenses.

 

[BattleAngel]

The special effects technology already exists to warrant an emotive Batman cowl. Combine CGI in certain filming sequences with comparable technology from the following video and a comic accurate Batman cowl becomes reality. Notice the expressiveness in the brow ridge; it truly enhances the theatricality of the lenses.

Yeah, it's really amazing. I always forget about this - this is from 2001, right? So like... the technology should most definitely be there now. Goblin shows plenty of emotional range there, and he's got fist-sized Christmas ornaments for eyes. With the Batman cowl, the actor's got his whole actual mouth and much smaller eyes - it's time for an emotive Batman cowl with the comic-accurate treatment of the eyes (retractable; fine). Anything else at this point is a glorified cosplay outfit as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Tasogare Sebei]

Yeah, it's really amazing. I always forget about this - this is from 2001, right? So like... the technology should most definitely be there now. Goblin shows plenty of emotional range there, and he's got fist-sized Christmas ornaments for eyes. With the Batman cowl, the actor's got his whole actual mouth and much smaller eyes - it's time for an emotive Batman cowl with the comic-accurate treatment of the eyes (retractable; fine). Anything else at this point is a glorified cosplay outfit as far as I'm concerned.[/QUOTE

The special effects technology dates back to 2002. The lense proportion from The Dark Knight or smaller should complement the technology now, assuming its advancement in the past sixteen years. Just look at cellphones as a parallel. The CGI effects already exists from the Demon Batman sequence in Batman Begins.

 

[Marvel united]

This also solves the "no emotion" problem that many argue the white eyes would present. You can have the white eyes + with an expressive Batman cowl and gave the most emotive Batman ever on film

 

[Tasogare Sebei]

This also solves the "no emotion" problem that many argue the white eyes would present. You can have the white eyes + with an expressive Batman cowl and gave the most emotive Batman ever on film

Imagine The Dark Night Joker interrogation scene with that kind of special effects integrated with CGI; use the former for the dialogue scenes and the latter for action sequences. We would have Batman the Animated Series incarnate.

 

[Marvel united]

Imagine The Dark Night Joker interrogation scene with that kind of special effects integrated with CGI; use the former for the dialogue scenes and the latter for action sequences. We would have Batman the Animated Series incarnate.

That would have been pretty awesome Ironically enough, that's one of the only scenes where the TDK suit looked good imo

 

[Vaibow]

How about batman just wear the cowl, but the face is cut out, he just has mo cap dots and the rest is filled in, so when he really uses his eyes and frowns etc, the dots pick it up perfectly and then they render in the cowl.

 

[Marvel united]

How about batman just wear the cowl, but the face is cut out, he just has mo cap dots and the rest is filled in, so when he really uses his eyes and frowns etc, the dots pick it up perfectly and then they render in the cowl.

View attachment 20779

This could work too. That's sort of what they do with Deadpool:



Mocap dots on the cowl itself for the eyes and brow movement

 

[Aximili86]

Ehh, really hope they don't do that CG-animated facial expressions crap here. It works with Deadpool, an intentionally-ridiculous broad comedy/parody, but it looks so cruddy with Spider-Man in the MCU.

The cowl's eyes don't need to be expressive. Just leave it lense-less, you've got the eyes and you're got the mouth. Expression aplenty.

 

[Boom]

Giving Batman eyes similar to Deadpool's would be one of the worst decisions they could possibly make. In no realm of reality can it be taken seriously, which is why it literally only works for a character like Deadpool.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You see, I always give credit for the invention of something to the person who thought it up. I’m funny that way.

And do go and watch Batman And Bill. Also read Marc Tyler Nobleman’s book. It’ll show you just what a piece of **** Bob Kane actually was.



Tweaks????? Literally everything you know and love about Batman came from Bill Finger’s mind.

Finger didn’t have the ability to draw it. Kane did. Kane designed it. If you think up the idea for a flying car, but you can’t build one, did you design the car, or did the engineer who built the flying car design it?

Finger inspired Kane, no doubt. But, as we’ve seen over nearly 100 years of Batman at this point, even something as specific as saying “Make the costume black and gray, give him a batsymol and ears” can be executed a TON of different ways. The original look we're referencing is specifically Kane's design. Just as we say the Jim Lee drawn Batman is a Jim Lee design, even though all the elements in the design were, again, inspired by Kane.

This is how credit is given in the art world. It's a pointless argument to make, and one of the rare instances Finger wasn't screwed over by Kane.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Giving Batman eyes similar to Deadpool's would be one of the worst decisions they could possibly make. In no realm of reality can it be taken seriously, which is why it literally only works for a character like Deadpool.

I don't agree. Giving an actor white contacts so thei eyes still can emote, with a well designed cowl could look quite unsettling. There's a reason multiple horror films utilize this look with multiple ghosts/monsters.

 

[Boom]

I don't agree. Giving an actor white contacts so thei eyes still can emote, with a well designed cowl could look quite unsettling.

Except that's not what Deadpool does. They literally animate the eyes and brow of the mask, and it's cartoonish. I have zero desire to see that on a Batman cowl.

White contact lenses with black eye makeup is perfectly fine. Hard pass on the Deadpool route though.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I’ve never once credited Bill Finger with Bob Kane’s artwork. I’ve credited Bill Finger with inventing Batman’s entire costume. There’s a very big difference there.

You stated originally that it was Bill Finger's design. This is where people are disagreeing. It may seem like we're arguing semantics, but in terms of art credit, we're not.

Except that's not what Deadpool does. They literally animate the eyes and brow of the mask, and it's cartoonish. I have zero desire to see that on a Batman cowl.

White contact lenses with black eye makeup is perfectly fine. Hard pass on the Deadpool route though.

I'm sure you could do the CGI route in a way that doesn't look cartoony, but I would honestly prefer they keep it practical because...it's not hard to do practically. If anything, just use CGI to white out th actors eyes to make it look like they have white contact lenses (which I could see them doing since colored lenses can aggravate the eyes. Jim Carrey famously went through pain tolerance training to endure his yellow contacts for the Grinch).

 

[Boom]

You stated originally that it was Bill Finger's design. This is where people are disagreeing. It may seem like we're arguing semantics, but in terms of art credit, we're not.


I'm sure you could do the CGI route in a way that doesn't look cartoony, but I would honestly prefer they keep it practical because...it's not hard to do practically. If anything, just use CGI to white out th actors eyes to make it look like they have white contact lenses (which I could see them doing since colored lenses can aggravate the eyes. Jim Carrey famously went through pain tolerance training to endure his yellow contacts for the Grinch).

I'm in the "retractable lenses" camp. Best of both worlds. I'd say the only times he really could use lenses are fight sequences, some interrogations, and crime scene investigations (if you wanted the lenses to also act as HUDs).

I could maybe be talked into something similar to what they've done in Captain Marvel, but I want to see how well that was actually executed in the film itself.