Ant-Man The best way that Marvel can fix this

[Ragnaroknroll]

Captain Marvel, both male and female have had their comics canceled several time. Black Panther has a patchy record too.

I'm not sure why you're so hard up for an Ant-Man cancelation. I've explained to you several times why it would be foolish, and how Marvel would be flushing millions, breaking pay or play contracts (Michael Douglas would get paid even if this film was canceled).

Ant-Man, unlike Captain Marvel, is his own concept. He has a unique power set, his own set of solo villains, a love interest, a supporting characters. He's far better suited for a big screen solo film than Danvers (supporting character who was upgraded to Generic flying superhero through convoluted plot contrivances and fights leftover Captain America and Iron Man villains) or Black Panther (who has roughly Cap's powers, Tony Stark's inventive genius, and Thor-esque royalty issues/ battles for the throne.) While Black Panther does offer an exotic location / his own rogues gallery, so much about him feels familiar.

The test reel shows how innovative Ant-Man can be.

You make some really good points Kang and have brightened my optimism a little for this film. I remember Stan Lee saying that he was never really happy with Ant-Man and always felt it was a missed opportunity. I know it's a totally different premise than what we may eventually see in the upcoming film but I really enjoyed the way Hank and Janet were portrayed in Avengers EMH.

I really hope Marvel doesn't rush this movie. They have a stellar cast that is just too good to squander. If they are so dead set on a release date they may scare away any serious directing talent.

 

[The Question]

Apparently from what I've seen,the big thing he thinks marvel's masterstroke was so far,is IM3's Mandarin.

It's certainly up there, it was pretty great.

Which was promptly overridden in a One Shot (to fan delight everywhere) he still refuses to acknowledge as canonical.

1: It wasn't to every fan's delight.

2: I acknowledge it as canonical. At no point have I ever refused to acknowledge the One Shot as canonical. I just didn't like it.

And that's all you really need to know to see where The Question comes from on the topic.

Where would you say that is, exactly?

 

[Rorschach2012]

Delay the film. Make Hank and Janet the stars.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Where would you say that is, exactly?

I think his point is that you thinking one of Marvel Studios' best films was one of their best films is somehow ridiculous.

 

[DA_Champion]

The Mandarin switch was one of the few good parts of IM3.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This isn't the Iron Man 3 forum guys. Talk about Ant-Man.

 

[Endeavor]

I have a possible fix (I've been lurking for a long time but haven't really read every idea in this thread so forgive me if it's been brought up):

mid credits scene:
Douglas' Pym is seen in some isolated lab communicating with an unseen entity over a high tech device of some sort.
He mentions something about being able avert the threat that Cross presented to his position, but not yet being able to accomplish his main objective.
As he speaks the camera pans around the room and in some dark corner you see two pods with dim blinking lights, then the camera pans to the opposite end of the lab where a door opens and "Hope" walks in. She walks over to "Pym" and stands behind him, in time to hear the voice communicating with him bark out orders to "continue the search for the artifact, no more delays". The communication cuts off, then "Hope" walks over to one of the pods and cleans the glass with one had, so as to be able to see what's inside, then smirks as she is faced with her own likeness, frozen in suspended animation.
She turns around to look at "Pym" and as she does her features begin to fluidly change into a green pointy eared alien. When Pym looks back he's already completed his transformation to his true alien self.
Intro - The Skrulls

Yeah I know it's corny and whatever, and there might be more than a few legal hurdles to jump through, but I would love to see something like this happen.

 

[Mike Murdock]

That makes no sense and doesn't solve any of the complaints unless you want to argue this Hank Pym was always a Skrull (i.e., there is no Hank Pym). Otherwise, you still have Hank Pym as someone too old to become an Avenger.

Seriously, I'm not sure what your solution is solving.

 

[fixxxer]

I don't think there's anything needs fixing at this point. *shrugs*

 

[Hellion]

I don't think there's anything needs fixing at this point. *shrugs*

I'm with fixxxer for the time being.

 

[Endeavor]

That makes no sense and doesn't solve any of the complaints unless you want to argue this Hank Pym was always a Skrull (i.e., there is no Hank Pym). Otherwise, you still have Hank Pym as someone too old to become an Avenger.

Seriously, I'm not sure what your solution is solving.

Hank Pym is one of the people in the 2 pods, in suspended animation. The Skrull has been posing as him for decades. When he comes out of the pod he'd be young, and able to become an Avenger. The 'artifact' I was envisioning would be one of the Infinity stones, which Pym hid in the past and that's why the Skrulls came after him to begin with, and it would tie this story in with the already running Inf Stones thread in the rest of the MCU.

 

[cph9fa]

Count me among those that doesn't think there's anything that needs fixing.

The whole Skrull idea just sounds terribly contrived to "undo" the entire premise of the film, much like the infamous "it was all a dream" plot (which I think some people have actually invoked to explain away IM3, ugh). I don't think Marvel needs to start attacking the integrity of their own films like that.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, it would completely undermine the point of the film.

Do the Skrulls put people in suspended animation in the comics? Kidnap and replace, sure, but have them not age for decades?

 

[cph9fa]

Yeah, it would completely undermine the point of the film.

Do the Skrulls put people in suspended animation in the comics? Kidnap and replace, sure, but have them not age for decades?

I don't think so. Besides, in the MCU, the whole "man out of time" plot is really Cap & Bucky's schtick.

 

[Human Torch]

I've pretty much given up on this film.Maybe it can be salvaged to my satisfaction,but I think the dye is cast.

Thanks again,Edgar.

 

[Endeavor]

Yeah, it would completely undermine the point of the film.

Do the Skrulls put people in suspended animation in the comics? Kidnap and replace, sure, but have them not age for decades?

How does it undermine the point of the film?

Skrull Pym would be acting like the real Pym would, in order to avoid suspicion. The story would've probably gone the same way if Hank was an old and washed up superhero.

Whether the Skrulls have placed ppl in suspended animation or not in the comics is irrelevant (they have by the way). They're an advanced alien race, so they'd have the technology. If they need to keep Pym alive and nearby (not off world) to further torture him and question him if need be, then the best way is to keep him in suspended animation. This would reduce the possibility of an escape.

You may not like it because you are in the same camp as Wright in that you prefer for Pym to be set aside so that Lang can completely replace him as not only Ant-Man but also an Avenger... But that doesn't mean this idea is completely ridiculous or outside the realm of possibilities. It does after all have a similar precedent in the books, and it would allow for everybody to come out happy in the end: Lang lovers will have his movie and him running around as Ant-Man; Pym-philes will still have a chance to see him, in his prime, join the Avengers.

 

[Vincanws]

I've pretty much given up on this film.Maybe it can be salvaged to my satisfaction,but I think the dye is cast.

Thanks again,Edgar.

Gosh, you are a glass half empty type eh?

 

[kaijunexus]

After thinking about it, I think this film is going to be about fathers and daughters more than anything else.

Hank and Scott both have daughters that are integral to their characters and arcs. There's no way they won't heavily explore the dichotomy of those two relationships.

 

[The Question]

I've pretty much given up on this film.Maybe it can be salvaged to my satisfaction,but I think the dye is cast.

Thanks again,Edgar.

Yes, I really don't think they'll attempt to salvage the film from the unforgivable state of "having made some changes from the thing they're adapting from."

Truly, that is the worst thing a movie can do.

 

[Mike Murdock]

How does it undermine the point of the film?

The film is about passing the torch, writing the wrongs of the past, finding redemption in the next generation, and getting one last chance to be a hero. Evil Skrull Pym would do none of those things. That's how it undermines the point of the film.

Skrull Pym would be acting like the real Pym would, in order to avoid suspicion. The story would've probably gone the same way if Hank was an old and washed up superhero.

The plot would follow the same notes but the message would be completely different. It's possible to make very subtle changes and completely change the story, even if everything that follows is exactly the same.

You may not like it because you are in the same camp as Wright in that you prefer for Pym to be set aside so that Lang can completely replace him as not only Ant-Man but also an Avenger...

I don't particularly care one way or the other. But I recognize that this is a dramatic change to the story and its themes. I just think, if you're going to do that, just write a different story. Simple as that.

 

[Sockie]

Making Pym into a Skrull would be like having the Avengers movie end with it turning out all of the Avengers except, say, Iron Man are Skrulls, and the real characters never actually teamed up at all. It would be atrocious.

 

[Mysteryman]

It will be fine.'
But no on Evil Skrull Pym.

 

[Guard82]

The Skrull idea would be stupid and pointless, and would serve no purpose in telling the story of either Pym or Lang.

I don't think they need to do anything else with the film at this point except produce it as it is currently written. The more I hear about it, the more interesting and intriguing it sounds, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

[Human Torch]

Yes, I really don't think they'll attempt to salvage the film from the unforgivable state of "having made some changes from the thing they're adapting from."

Truly, that is the worst thing a movie can do.

At this rate,Fox's FF reboot that's being lambasted will have more in common with the source material than a Marvel Studio Ant Man film.Who'd have thought?

 

[The Question]

At this rate,Fox's FF reboot that's being lambasted will have more in common with the source material than a Marvel Studio Ant Man film.Who'd have thought?

Funny how that has absolutely nothing to do with the film's actual quality. It's almost like narrow definitions of what constitutes being "true" to the source material are restrictive, arbitrary, and entirely useless.