The Border Crisis

[Kelly]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/10/us-usa-immigration-obama-perry-idUSKBN0FE2MH20140710

From my own personal point of view, it absolutely breaks my heart to see these young children and teenagers in a situation that is very scary I am sure for them.

I believe that this isn't necessarily something that THIS ADMINISTRATION did....it actually stems from Bush and a law he signed... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/u...ed-in-law-to-curb-child-trafficking.html?_r=1

I believe (and we are already seeing it) that Non-profit organizations, churches, etc can take very good care of these children. I would like to see the 3.7 billion go primarily for health care for these children. Get them well, get them proper immunization, etc.

BUT....IMO, we have to send them back.

The humanitarian way to handle future problems like this is to insure that they don't take the trip to begin with....

I understand that where they live is horrible, but it has been that way for years, in some areas decades. It is bad in Africa, it is bad in the Middle East, it is bad in parts of Asia...

Our system, education, welfare, health etc...cannot handle this. I'm not sure why this wasn't seen coming (I kind of believe it was, it was just ignored) but, it is a problem NOW, and these kiddos, unless they have family here that are legally here, need to be sent back home. Do it in a humane way, again, send them home "well", but they must go home.

It is hard, very hard for me to even say the words "send them home". But, reality has to be the tone here.

I also believe that National Guard should be sent immediately. I think that simple act by the President would FLING open the door to the immigration reform that he wants.

I hope that the 3.7 billion is ok'd, I hope that most of it is used for health care, and I hope that Mexico DOES SOMETHING.

THESE CHILDREN CANNOT MAKE THIS TRIP ANYMORE, it is the trip that is putting them in the most grave danger. It is funding coyotes and cartel, and it needs to be stopped.

As far as the President not going to the border. I was really hoping that he would change his mind. I don't see it as a political thing, I don't see it as a photo op, I see it as a good leader...hopefully he will change his mind.

I had family that were in law enforcement on the border. They finally had to move to Dallas because it was just too dangerous for them and their family. To think that unaccompanied children are moving through this area, scares me to death.

So to the three main things that seem to be all the media wants to talk about.

Is this Obama's Katrina? I don't think so, to compare the two is apples and oranges in many ways.

Should Obama visit the border? I would certainly like to see him do that, not for a photo op, but as our leader.

Should Congress pass the 3.7 billion asked for? YES, but I would have no problem with it coming from our Foreign Aid money.

But first and RIGHT NOW, we have to stop anymore from coming in. The fact that the numbers I'm hearing at this point are 150,00 by the end of the year, scares the hell out of me.

I think McCain's questions are excellent questions that need to be answered, and I agree....our representatives SHOULD be able to visit these holding areas, anytime, anywhere without hesitation.



I agree with all that McCain quotes the President as saying....I also agree with McCain in the last few minutes of this video. I do however understand that we should not be taking pictures of these children, they are due their privacy....but for a Congressman to be told that he/she cannot speak with those working in these facilities, nor speak with the children IS RIDICULOUS. I understand not allowing media, or "me" to go to one of these facilities and do that....but my Congressman sure as hell better be able to.

 

[herakles]

Question. IF this was again Bush's fault, why didn't we see more kids flooding the border then as opposed to now that the President can't get his Amnesty bill passed?

Also instead of housing them we should just ship them back or allow couples who can't have kids get adoption rights to the kids that came by themselves. IMO ANY parent who ships their kid (especially pre teen children) across thousands of miles should lose ALL parental rights cause they endangered their kid. They potentially exposed their children to horrible exploitation!

Imagine IF an American Parent made their kid sneak into Mexico or Central America. CPS would be on the parent like flies on crap and take that kid away!

Something HAS to be done here. I know plenty of people who immigrated legally after paying thousands of dollars only to see people who break the law given amnesty.

 

[Kelly]

Question. IF this was again Bush's fault, why didn't we see more kids flooding the border then as opposed to now that the President can't get his Amnesty bill passed?

Also instead of housing them we should just ship them back or allow couples who can't have kids get adoption rights to the kids that came by themselves. IMO ANY parent who ships their kid (especially pre teen children) across thousands of miles should lose ALL parental rights cause they endangered their kid. They potentially exposed their children to horrible exploitation!

Imagine IF an American Parent made their kid sneak into Mexico or Central America. CPS would be on the parent like flies on crap and take that kid away!

Something HAS to be done here. I know plenty of people who immigrated legally after paying thousands of dollars only to see people who break the law given amnesty.

I don't think that it is necessarily HIS FAULT that they came....I think that is more due to Obama's executive order....BUT, it is the law signed by Bush in 2008 that is making our ability to send them back a harder deal and it will take much longer unless we can amend that law. Obama can send National Guard troops NOW....that does not mean that our border will be totally closed, some will still get through....BUT, it is definitely something that would show the PARENTS, that we do not plan on this becoming an ongoing situation. That we plan to get these children here taken care of and sent back, and we do not plan on this kind of influx happening again.

I agree with you, I have several friends that have gone through our system legally, and yes it took lots of time and lots of money. IMO, we need to take care of both of those things. Make the process faster, and much cheaper, and get the lawyers totally out of the system.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Sending these kids back would be irresponsible at this point (and apparently, illegal). I also question the cost and logistics of such an operation, and the viability.

But the situation needs to be improved, they're living in what look like POR or internment camps right now.

The countries that shipped these kids off though, really should receive a bill.

 

[Kelly]

Sending these kids back would be irresponsible at this point (and apparently, illegal). I also question the cost and logistics of such an operation, and the viability.

But the situation needs to be improved, they're living in what look like POR or internment camps right now.

The countries that shipped these kids off though, really should receive a bill.

The amendment to the 2008 law would simply give these kids the same status as Canadian and Mexican kiddos that come over the border illegally. So, we could take them through our system much quicker. As of right now, it will take over 2 years....and lest than 50% of those that are here now will make it before the judge.

The small towns where they are sending these kids AT THE MOMENT...cannot handle this economically. And whoever in the administration who says that it won't cost these communities a dime (Sheila Jackson Lee has said this...) they lie.....they are looking at schools here in Houston that are no longer being used to house the kids. This is crazy, and if the number ends up at 150,000 by the end of the year like it is predicted......good grief.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Pragmatically speaking, I don't see many options. They can not be directly deported, without a lengthy legal process.

And can they even go back if they could just be sent home on the next plane? Their governments and families are clearly irresponsible if they sent them here in the first place.

If Obama really does give two ****s about these kids though he would be on the border right now.

 

[Kelly]

Pragmatically speaking, I don't see many options. They can not be directly deported, without a lengthy legal process.

And can they even go back if they could just be sent home on the next plane? Their governments and families are clearly irresponsible if they sent them here in the first place.

If Obama really does give two ****s about these kids though he would be on the border right now.

I don't know that we can judge these families under the same criteria that we live under. When you do that you are comparing a society that is still in many cases at Stage 1 of Civilization: Which is hunters and gatherers and only know how to "survive"....compared to us who are at Stage 6 Post Industrial/Information Age. The mentality is totally different.

I really don't know why he didn't go yesterday. He was about 200 miles from one of the detention centers? I don't understand it, and I don't understand his reasoning...he doesn't want it to be a photo op? Well hell what was that when he was playing pool day before yesterday with Colorado's governor????? I really don't get that....but that is so far away from the biggest problem.

We cannot keep these kids. School districts are already going into overdrive to get ready for them. I can assure you my district will get an influx of these kids.

 

[herakles]

Sending these kids back would be irresponsible at this point (and apparently, illegal). I also question the cost and logistics of such an operation, and the viability.

But the situation needs to be improved, they're living in what look like POR or internment camps right now.

The countries that shipped these kids off though, really should receive a bill.

Why is it irresponsible. It was their parents who sent them here while putting them in harms way. We would just put them on a plane back home after giving them medical care. I say we give the kids a choice stay here and their parents lose parental rights to them forever (child endangerment charge) and allow couples who can't have kids first dibs to adopt them or they get sent home to their parents while forever being banned to come back here legally!

 

[herakles]

Pragmatically speaking, I don't see many options. They can not be directly deported, without a lengthy legal process.

And can they even go back if they could just be sent home on the next plane? Their governments and families are clearly irresponsible if they sent them here in the first place.

If Obama really does give two ****s about these kids though he would be on the border right now.

I personally believe the Administration orchestrated this "crisis" to push the President's Amnesty agenda.

 

[Smashlilman]

I personally believe the Administration orchestrated this "crisis" to push the President's Amnesty agenda.

That makes no since. This crisis makes people less likely to support that bill.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's all part of his secret plot to destroy America.

 

[Kelly]

As I have said before, I do not think that this President has some plan under his sleeve.....I just think he has absolutely no clue what he is doing, and at this point is TOTALLY over his head.

I do think his executive order is what gave the go ahead that our borders are open for all, come on....I do not however think that he EVER THOUGHT something this would happen. And of course the law that Bush signed that pretty much is giving these people a chance to STAY and end up in a process that at the earliest will take over 2 years. So between these two Presidents, we have the perfect storm, called over 70,000 people from Central America now in our country within months...

 

[summerteeth]

As I have said before, I do not think that this President has some plan under his sleeve.....I just think he has absolutely no clue what he is doing, and at this point is TOTALLY over his head.

I do think his executive order is what gave the go ahead that our borders are open for all, come on....I do not however think that he EVER THOUGHT something this would happen. And of course the law that Bush signed that pretty much is giving these people a chance to STAY and end up in a process that at the earliest will take over 2 years. So between these two Presidents, we have the perfect storm, called over 70,000 people from Central America now in our country within months...

That's what happens when you have two, two term Presidents in a row. Their mistakes start to piggyback on one another.

 

[Smashlilman]

The irony is that Border Security under Obama has improved and deportations are up. The reason this crisis is happening is because we actually caught all of these people and we don't have the money or resources allocated to deal with it.

When Obama took office he boosted the ImmiGration Enforcement budget so that when Immigration reform was on the table he could take the weak on Border Security argument off the table.

 

[Kelly]

The irony is that Border Security under Obama has improved and deportations are up. The reason this crisis is happening is because we actually caught all of these people and we don't have the money or resources allocated to deal with it.

When Obama took office he boosted the ImmiGration Enforcement budget so that when Immigration reform was on the table he could take the weak on Border Security argument off the table.

This report examines data from a collection of mostly unpublished internal Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and ICE statistics, to provide an alternative evaluation of the administration’s record on immigration enforcement that is based on raw statistics rather than pre-packaged press kits. These statistics show that, contrary to what is commonly believed, in fact immigration enforcement in the interior has slowed significantly in the last few years. ICE is arresting and removing noticeably fewer illegal aliens from the interior now than was the case five years ago, and even two years ago. Its focus has shifted away from interior enforcement in favor of processing aliens who are apprehended by the Border Patrol.

http://cis.org/ICE-Illegal-Immigrant-Deportations

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

As the national debate rages over what to do with the tens of thousands of Central American children who have flooded the U.S. border in recent months, one Marylander was brave enough to take a stand.

"NO ILLEAGLES HERE. NO UNDOCUMENTED DEMOCRATS," proclaim the all-caps black letters, letting all sickly birds of prey and vote-fraudsters-in-waiting know: your kind ain't welcome here.

The glorious, patriotic message appeared on the side of a former Army Reserve warehouse in Westminster, Maryland that's been named as a potential site for housing undocumented children.

According to the Washington Post, the response among local lawmakers was "swift and negative":

Del. Justin Ready (R-Carroll) asked if the undocumented children would have "undergone the proper health evaluations or background screenings." Carroll Commissioner Richard Rothschild told the Baltimore Sun that his county "will not become a repository for Obama's failed immigration policies."

...

Rep. Andy Harris (R-Md.), whose congressional district includes a slice of Carroll County, but not Westminster — had threatened to use his position on the House Appropriations Committee to block some funding to HHS if it used the military building. Harris's office was notified over the weekend that the location would not be used.

Shortly after its announcement as a candidate, the federal Department of Health and Human Services decided the facility was "not a viable option at this time." Who ever said old-fashioned activism doesn't work?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...89610a-0b89-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html

This pretty much sums up the mentality and education level of people on the right in regards to this situation

 

[Kelly]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...89610a-0b89-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html

This pretty much sums up the mentality and education level of people on the right in regards to this situation

Generalizations usually show a lacking as well...

 

[Marvolo]

Conservative Groups Protest Central American Children By Marching With Guns

The Wolverine Human Services center in Vassar is under consideration to house up to 120 of the children for four weeks at a time, where they would receive federally funded medical care and basic education until they could go through crowded immigration courts.

But the protesters, many of whom are not residents of Vassar, demonstrated against the possible housing.

Conservative groups protested the possible housing of Central American children in Vassar, Michigan, on Monday by marching through town, some with AR-15 rifles and handguns, according to The Detroit News.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5587681?utm_hp_ref=tw

Imo this is clear communication of a deadly threat against children. I dont care if the children arent american citizens. You dont imply that you will use guns against them. Every one of these fools should lose their gun ownership rights for a year at least. Cause if Im not mistake death threats to children may be a felony and felons lose their rights to own guns. Teach them a ****ing lesson. If we were talking about moving terrorists or deadly cartel to Michigan, sure, Id sympathize with the protestors, but we are talking about young children. Are the guns necessary!?

 

[Kelly]

Here's the story on it with pictures...

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2014/07/demonstrators_in_vassar_carry.html

 

[Figs]

Since I'm not in those areas where the kids are all being held and taken care of by our tax money, I'm wondering if they in fact are ALL kids? As in relatively young and innocent. Something tells me they aren't and certain sides of the media are just playing up the whole "for the children" angle.

My wife and I argued about this a couple of nights back. She was saying that they are leaving their countries due to poor conditions. To which I brought up the fact that they're escaping to the wrong country. Our country's dollar is still weak and getting weaker over time, not to mention we owe money out the ass to other countries and the middle class is constantly getting closer and closer to lower class. Our politicians waste away our taxes and these "kids" think they're coming to paradise?? Sadly they don't realize that they are also a big part of the problem with our countries financial woes. The $$$$$ that goes into taking care of them, shelter and medical isn't something the US can afford right now.

 

[Schlosser85]

Why are we the world's orphanage?

Spending $$$ feeding and housing children from other countries while our own military veterans are homeless on the streets is a seriously misalignment of priorities.

We can't afford this. Them being children only makes a difference if we're gonna be dewy-eyed and sentimental instead of practical and responsible toward our own people.

 

[Kelly]

Well, if someone would read the 2008 law signed by Bush, they would find out that it ONLY is talking about unaccompanied children...not adults, and not children accompanied by an adult.

Seems to me that would cut the number down considerably. If they are an adult, or a child accompanied by an adult, they need to be sent back immediately. Seems so easy to just follow the law...

 

[Marvolo]

Since I'm not in those areas where the kids are all being held and taken care of by our tax money, I'm wondering if they in fact are ALL kids? As in relatively young and innocent. Something tells me they aren't and certain sides of the media are just playing up the whole "for the children" angle.

My wife and I argued about this a couple of nights back. She was saying that they are leaving their countries due to poor conditions. To which I brought up the fact that they're escaping to the wrong country. Our country's dollar is still weak and getting weaker over time, not to mention we owe money out the ass to other countries and the middle class is constantly getting closer and closer to lower class. Our politicians waste away our taxes and these "kids" think they're coming to paradise?? Sadly they don't realize that they are also a big part of the problem with our countries financial woes. The $$$$$ that goes into taking care of them, shelter and medical isn't something the US can afford right now.

You havent been keeping up with what the cartel is doing in the border towns in mexico have you? Our economic woes are nothing compared to the threats of daily beheadings and gruesome death. At least in America they have an opportunity. I dont blame parents. If I had children and had no other choice Id get my kids across the border as well. U.S. laws be damned.

And our country could afford this just fine. Just like it could afford to help veterans if it wasnt blowing so much money on a bloated military budget and other wasteful things.

Im fine with turning back adults, but we shouldnt be turning kids back especially kids in need of medical attention. If they must go back then they should be stabalized and their illnesses properly treated before they are sent back. Yes, I know the precedent that sets, but I really dont care. US doctors go all across the world giving medical care to impoverished people so why cant they do that for sick kids who come across the border?

And why exactly cant we at least allow these children to be adopted by US families?

 

[Kelly]

Because our country is not an adoption service to those that take the illegal pathway into our country.

Our immigration laws ARE THE easiest of anywhere in the world...and yet, when we want to follow those laws (ie: the 2008 law should be followed, more judges should be brought in to expedite the situation in an efficient and effective manner, or the law should be changed to make all parties equal, Canada, Mexico and the rest of the world).

Why should we chunk our rule of law? We are a sovereign nation, that has over decades lost the ability to take care of our borders, that needs to change.

 

[Marvolo]

Because our country is not an adoption service to those that take the illegal pathway into our country.

Our immigration laws ARE THE easiest of anywhere in the world...and yet, when we want to follow those laws (ie: the 2008 law should be followed, more judges should be brought in to expedite the situation in an efficient and effective manner, or the law should be changed to make all parties equal, Canada, Mexico and the rest of the world).

Why should we chunk our rule of law? We are a sovereign nation, that has over decades lost the ability to take care of our borders, that needs to change.

But if Americans want to adopt children from other countries they should be allowed to. Kids in need of help are kids in need of help regardless of nationality and regardless of whether their parents brought them or sent them here illegally. If an american family wants to step up and adopt the kid or kids I dont see the problem with it. Provided the adopters arent doing it for some less than honest reasons. I know its a complicated process that would require this country to get its head on straight, but there has to be a better way than shipping kids back across the border to die or suffer. This country has the capability to be too prosperous and has entirely too much land for me to believe that we cant handle this situation in a humane way thats safe for the kids.

As for our immigration processes, they are a convoluted nightmare of red tape. They may be easier than other countries but it doesnt change the fact that the system as it is is a nightmare. I fully agree things have got to change across the board. Unfortunately I doubt it will any time soon.