The Brave and the Bold News and Discussion Thread

[Invader Joker]

Yep. It is always possible he doesn't wind up helming it but I really feel like people are overestimating the likelihood he gets fired from it because they don't want him to direct it. Given some of Gunn's comments about Muschietti being involved way back when you have to assume he's been involved in the development of this project from day one and they're happy with him on it so far - I highly, highly doubt he just got hired for it.

Why do you keep assuming that Gunn would have complete power over this situation? Even I, who do buy the fact that he's being given a lot of free reign by only reporting to Zaslav, don't really see a scenario where Zaslav cust-cotting "would tax write-off my own sons" penny pincher would have any sort of loyalty to Muschietti or be happy with him at the helm after this disaster.

It's genuinely like you live in this completely alternate reality where suddenly execs are these really loyal human beings when they've never been.

 

[Eddie Dean]

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I really don't think they saw it being this bad. Maybe they believed the Deadline 70 million opening estimate which would have somewhat given them a way to break even or get a good chunk of their money back (after all, that was the industry's estimate) I don't think they foresaw the B Cinemascore and the under 60 million opening.

Also I don't get this notion that studio execs are these incredibly loyal human beings when it's kinda obvious they're not. They'd probably imprison their own mother if she lost them 200 million dollars and tarnished their brand. There's been countless examples of directors getting ditched over even less regardless of how much a studio hyped them up prior.

They're not, but we also have literally no idea if they're going to blame Muschietti and not the hundred other factors that went into The Flash being a huge cluster****. On a project like this the director is not God, he is not the be all end all of it, he is a hired gun doing what the studio told him to do - he is not inherently singularly responsible for the movie.

It's entirely possible the perception at the studio will be "Well this project was ****ed from day one because of Ezra Miller, audience disinterest in the DC brand given our last three movies have now bombed, a poor plan by the previous regime etc." rather than "Yeah Andy Muschietti personally ruined everything and it is all his fault".

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Why do you keep assuming that Gunn would have complete power over this situation? Even I, who do buy the fact that he's being given a lot of free reign by only reporting to Zaslav, don't really see a scenario where Zaslav cust-cotting "would tax write-off my own sons" penny pincher would have any sort of loyalty to Muschietti or be happy with him at the helm after this disaster.

I have never once assumed Gunn had complete power over the situation. I simply think that on a massive industrial undertaking clearly beset by a sequence of highly complex problems it goes beyond one singular person being held responsible. Frankly, I also think they'd blame Ezra Miller far more than Muschietti.

 

[Invader Joker]

They're not, but we also have literally no idea if they're going to blame Muschietti and not the hundred other factors that went into The Flash being a huge cluster****. On a project like this the director is not God, he is not the be all end all of it, he is a hired gun doing what the studio told him to do - he is not inherently singularly responsible for the movie.

It's entirely possible the perception at the studio will be "Well this project was ****ed from day one because of Ezra Miller, audience disinterest in the DC brand given our last three movies have now bombed, a poor plan by the previous regime etc." rather than "Yeah Andy Muschietti personally ruined everything and it is all his fault".

We do have an idea because it's what every single studio has done in the past with directors on the face of a B Cinemascore. I literally listed last page what has happened with directors every single time, without fail, a film has received a B Cinemascore. Muschietti would be able to overcome a lot of things; maybe a weak opening, maybe bad publicity over its release. But a B Cinemascore is not something he can overcome because it is the absolute best measurement of an audience's enjoyment of the film. It is the one measurement that these studios care about the most, even above RT, metacritic, etc.

You think those projects didn't go through development hell? You think those projects were completely the director's baby? It doesn't matter. With a failure of this magnitude heads roll off and execs are not empathetic people. It is gonna be put on Muschietti because why the **** wouldn't they put on him.

I have never once assumed Gunn had complete power over the situation. I simply think that on a massive industrial undertaking clearly beset by a sequence of highly complex problems it goes beyond one singular person being held responsible. Frankly, I also think they'd blame Ezra Miller far more than Muschietti.

Ezra would to blame for the poor box office opening and the incredibly bizarre male skew for The Flash, not for the B Cinemascore and terrible legs. B Cinemascore polls people that already paid 20 bucks to see the movie on opening night (meaning they can't care about Ezra that much) and they still thought the movie sucked.

And frankly, I do think the notion that you can't blame the reception of a movie on its director is absolutely ridiculous, especially because at no point does it even seem like the studio control over him was too overbearing on anything except for the very ending.

 

[Eddie Dean]

 

[TheScarecrow]

Why do you keep assuming that Gunn would have complete power over this situation? Even I, who do buy the fact that he's being given a lot of free reign by only reporting to Zaslav, don't really see a scenario where Zaslav cust-cotting "would tax write-off my own sons" penny pincher would have any sort of loyalty to Muschietti or be happy with him at the helm after this disaster.

It's genuinely like you live in this completely alternate reality where suddenly execs are these really loyal human beings when they've never been.

I think you’re the one in an alternate reality!

This constant skittishness has been DC’s problem for a decade. Much work and much thought will have gone into Muschietti getting the gig.

Frankly, I’ll lose all respect for Zaslav, Gunn and Safran if Muschietti is sacked. It will be a signal that nothing has changed and no one knows what they’re doing.

I didn’t even love the Flash.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Why do you keep assuming that Gunn would have complete power over this situation? Even I, who do buy the fact that he's being given a lot of free reign by only reporting to Zaslav, don't really see a scenario where Zaslav cust-cotting "would tax write-off my own sons" penny pincher would have any sort of loyalty to Muschietti or be happy with him at the helm after this disaster.

It's genuinely like you live in this completely alternate reality where suddenly execs are these really loyal human beings when they've never been.

I never said this.

 

[Invader Joker]

I think you’re the one in an alternate reality!

This constant skittishness has been DC’s problem for a decade. Much work and much thought will have gone into Muschietti getting the gig.

Has it? The reason we're in this mess in the first place is because WB decided to stick with Zack Snyder even after MoS.

 

[TMP98]

What's gonna happen if Muschietti casts Lee Pace? Are we back onboard?

 

[Invader Joker]

What's gonna happen if Muschietti casts Lee Pace? Are we back onboard?

Even if he directs it's not gonna be him who casts Batman.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Has it? The reason we're in this mess in the first place is because WB decided to stick with Zack Snyder even after MoS.

You said in your other post he had all of his creative freedom stripped away. Can’t have it both ways. He can’t be an example someone being ditched post B Cinemascore and also an example of sticking with someone.

The truth is Zack was sacked because he was given a job by the studio to produce a fun Justice League film, and was giving them a four hour, dour flick condensed to fit the mould the studio wanted.

Zack Snyder’s issue goes beyond cinemascore. It’s his inability to deliver a film on time, on budget and in accordance with his brief.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Even if he directs it's not gonna be him who casts Batman.

Yeah, on this we can agree. I'll be way more excited to see this Batman in a future Justice League movie that I would imagine Gunn will probably direct.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

You said in your other post he had all of his creative freedom stripped away. Can’t have it both ways. He can’t be an example someone being ditched post B Cinemascore and also an example of sticking with someone.

The truth is Zack was sacked because he was given a job by the studio to produce a fun Justice League film, and was giving them a four hour, dour flick condensed to fit the mould the studio wanted.

Zack Snyder’s issue goes beyond cinemascore. It’s his inability to deliver a film on time, on budget and in accordance with his brief.

This. Snyder is a terrible team player. That isn't a judgment, I find it kinda endearing even though he's an awful filmmaker and a dick, but it is a significant factor in him getting booted.

 

[Invader Joker]

You said in your other post he had all of his creative freedom stripped away. Can’t have it both ways. He can’t be an example someone being ditched post B Cinemascore and also an example of sticking with someone.

The truth is Zack was sacked because he was given a job by the studio to produce a fun Justice League film, and was giving them a four hour, dour flick condensed to fit the mould the studio wanted.

Zack Snyder’s issue goes beyond cinemascore. It’s his inability to deliver a film on time, on budget and in accordance with his brief.

I never said it was a mistake to ditch him after that lol

I think the "it's a mistake to back-track" argument only holds merit if you're really deep into an idea already, but in the case of Brave and the Bold it doesn't even have a screenwriter attached so the movie is literally nothing at this point. It'd have zero impact except increasing the chances of being a better movie to replace Muschietti. If Brave and the Bold was already deep in pre-production maybe it'd hold some water but right now he's incredibly easy to replace. Would be very surprised if he even has a treatment.

 

[Boom]

I guess we'll see. Either way, not a particularly exciting choice. Bring on casting.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, on this we can agree. I'll be way more excited to see this Batman in a future Justice League movie that I would imagine Gunn will probably direct.

I hadn’t given any thought to the prospect of Gunn directing more films after getting Superman Legacy on the road but it makes sense he might want to take control of the big one. Pretty exciting to imagine now. Really wishing this DCU gets off on the right foot. I don’t think there are too many chances left with the GA.

 

[solidsnake86]

Andy is staying on to direct. WBD and Gunn had these numbers internally and something was up the second Andy disclosed the cage cameo.

Gunn above all will likely have to be involved in some capacity regading the script if this moves forward.

 

[Invader Joker]

Andy is staying on to direct. WBD and Gunn had these numbers internally and something was up the second Andy disclosed the cage cameo.

Gunn above all will likely have to be involved in some capacity regading the script if this moves forward.

No way they did lol. The trades themselves had the industry projections at 70 million. They didn't see it going this bad, nor did they see the B cinemascore coming.
And the script was the least of The Flash's issues. Most of the criticisms of that film can be traced back to Muschietti.

 

[samsnee]

They were definitely premature to announce him directing. He might still make a good Batman movie but Flash reviews don’t give me confidence.

 

[Iceman]

They were definitely premature to announce him directing. He might still make a good Batman movie but Flash reviews don’t give me confidence.

Just pointless announcing anything till the results are in.

 

[Filmfreak]

I'm surprised Disney didn't offer him a Star Wars movie.

 

[Frodo]

Even before The Flash, I was hoping they would go with a director who hadn't done a Batman related project as opposed to Muschietti.

I was hoping they would get a filmmaker with a clean slate when approaching the character.

So the pick of Muschietti doesn't excite me .

 

[emc5466]

The B CinemaScore is usually the kiss of death. The last Batman director that got a B CinemaScore was Tim Burton in 1992 for Batman Returns and he was fired a year later. Will an embattled cutthroat like Zaslav trust Muschietti again with a $200m budget and the crown jewel of the studio? I have my doubts.

 

[spideyfan77]

Havent seen flash but know all about it. Never cared for Muschietti directing batman at all judging on the flash trailers and leaked clips.

However, now hearing about the details for the lasso of truth scene…….stunned they are giving batman to him. Awful.