The Brave and the Bold News and Discussion Thread

[Invader Joker]

Him writing it wouldn't blow my mind but this scenario strikes me as extraordinarily unlikely.

My logic is that if he writes it he's then gonna want to direct it so it'd be pretty easy for him to fall into that rabbithole. I mean, he clearly has a Batman movie in him or at least something he wants to say with the character.

 

[C Prometheus]

Legacy being a huge hit makes him directing this scenario even less likely, I’d imagine the pressure becomes all about making a Legacy sequel happen as opposed to Gunn doing Peacemaker next.

That's certainly a valid point and I'd argue it's certainly the most likely scenario.

I do think though that there is still a chance that Safran and Zaslav end up looking at a successful Superman: Legacy and then pressuring Gunn to take over completely for The Brave and the Bold next in order to get the DCU Batman out there.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

My logic is that if he writes it he's then gonna want to direct it so it'd be pretty easy for him to fall into that rabbithole. I mean, he clearly has a Batman movie in him or at least something he wants to say with the character.

For sure, but he’s also probably locked into the Superman sequels if it’s a success and in theory still wants to direct Peacemaker. He can’t direct every major DC property.

 

[Invader Joker]

For sure, but he’s also probably locked into the Superman sequels if it’s a success and in theory still wants to direct Peacemaker. He can’t direct every major DC property.

Yeaaah but it's kinda different when it's quite literally his favorite comic character. And as for the Superman sequel thing... I mean... if it's a 2 year turnabout, he can go into the Superman sequel immediately after Brave and the Bold, and then Superman 2 would only be 4 years after Legacy. I mean Nolan did Prestige in-between Begins and TDK.

The part where it does become messier however is with the BaTB sequels lmao I also presume he's gonna want to direct an event crossover film at some point.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeaaah but it's kinda different when it's quite literally his favorite comic character. And as for the Superman sequel thing... I mean... if it's a 2 year turnabout, he can go into the Superman sequel immediately after Brave and the Bold, and then Superman 2 would only be 4 years after Legacy. I mean Nolan did Prestige in-between Begins and TDK.

The part where it does become messier however is with the BaTB sequels lmao I also presume he's gonna want to direct an event crossover film at some point.

He’ll do Justice League for sure is my guess.

 

[Invader Joker]

He’ll do Justice League for sure is my guess.

I mean I guess he could kill two birds with one stone and make the Superman and Brave and the Bold sequel a World's Finest crossover lmao

 

[Eddie Dean]

I don’t think WB will want to make a Batman Superman movie the sequel to a solo movie again

 

[emielaen]

I could see Muschietti getting the boot, but Gunn isn't gonna direct this.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

If Muschietti is off I wonder if it'll be another director with some wacky horror roots. My assumption as to why Muschietti got the is gig is, of course, in part the studios raging hard on for The Flash mixed with a lot of enthusiasm (presumably in part from Gunn himself) for his portrayal of Batman. I think a more specific reason though is that weird, unpleasant dark comedy undercurrent that The Flash has that seems very appealing to Gunn's sensibilities - I am guessing TB&TB is gonna have major PG-13 Kick-Ass energy.

None of that is a good thing, obviously, but I suspect it is the idea.

 

[WatchProtect]

Is there any reason to actually think Muschietti is out that I missed?

 

[Filmfreak]

The fact that The Flash is the biggest box office bomb in the history of WB and one of the biggest in Hollywood's history in general, which at the same time had a very lukewarm reception by both critics and audience alike, are sufficient reasons I believe.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeah, Flash is such an insane massive disaster that it is very possible that unless they really don't blame Muschietti for it behind the scenes (which is always possible, we don't know the internal politics and interpersonal relationships at the studio) they'll go in a different direction. It is insanely obvious IMO why he was picked in the first place both from a studio perspective and creative perspective (that creative perspective is a very bad one but it is 100% easy to see) but, again, if Flash had just underperformed I don't think they'd change course but it was such a monster bomb...

But, hey, still the guy who made the It movies and there is a big old Hawaii terrorizin', child groomin' scapegoat to be blamed. So who knows.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

I mean, The Flash fumbling hardly falls all on Muschietti's shoulders. The film has been through how many different directors and regimes at Warner Bros, going from a simple Flash/Cyborg team-up to this multiversal project that would reset things and start the new universe. That's not even getting into Ezra Miller's personal turmoil or Warners hyping up the film like it was the second coming of Superman.

But given all of that, it's a miracle that the film is out at all. That doesn't excuse its box office performance, of course, but I wouldn't hold The Flash entirely against Muschietti.

 

[Invader Joker]

I mean, The Flash fumbling hardly falls all on Muschietti's shoulders.

The fact the movie was bad and looked bad does. Again: You can blame the opening weekend on Ezra, the DCEU, whatever. But the quality of the movie and the visuals, which Muschietti was directly in charge off (and let's not go over this fairytale that "Oh poor Muschietti he suffered from pressure by higher ups and they meddled with his artistic vision", BS. Muschietti was boasting about how the film was his in the entire press tour. He's given zero indication he was blindsided or done wrong in any way) you can absolutely blame on him and its subsequent effect with the B Cinemascore and the widespread rejection by audiences that lead it to have the absolute worst legs of any DC film in existence.

I'm kinda tired of this trend of constantly defending directors whenever a bad movie turns out bad—sometimes directors just do **** jobs. No one spent more time working on The Flash than Muschietti, and he was still the one that delivered the worst visuals of any blockbuster in the last few years. He was still the one that gave the movie its schizophrenic tone which you can blame on him since it was the same in IT Chapter 2.

Yeah, Flash is such an insane massive disaster that it is very possible that unless they really don't blame Muschietti for it behind the scenes (which is always possible, we don't know the internal politics and interpersonal relationships at the studio) they'll go in a different direction. It is insanely obvious IMO why he was picked in the first place both from a studio perspective and creative perspective (that creative perspective is a very bad one but it is 100% easy to see) but, again, if Flash had just underperformed I don't think they'd change course but it was such a monster bomb...

But, hey, still the guy who made the It movies and there is a big old Hawaii terrorizin', child groomin' scapegoat to be blamed. So who knows.

The same exact reasons he was picked is the same exact reasons he should and will get the boot. He's replaceable, he has nothing to offer, he's a journeyman with no vision or creative instincts. You can find 15 other guys like him that'd do a better job. Both IT Chapter 2 and The Flash have proven that he's a studio puppet, yes, but he's an extremely bad and unreliable one. No company will want to take another 200 million dollar gamble on him.

 

[Invader Joker]

Is there any reason to actually think Muschietti is out that I missed?

Directors with huge bombs like the one The Flash was tend to lose big projects and get a massive career downgrade afterwards. WBD is not gonna put the director of their biggest bomb in history in charge of their new Batman.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The fact the movie was bad and looked bad does. Again: You can blame the opening weekend on Ezra, the DCEU, whatever. But the quality of the movie and the visuals, which Muschietti was directly in charge off (and let's not go over this fairytale that "Oh poor Muschietti he suffered from pressure by higher ups and they meddled with his artistic vision", BS. Muschietti was boasting about how the film was his in the entire press tour. He's given zero indication he was blindsided or done wrong in any way) you can absolutely blame on him and its subsequent effect with the B Cinemascore and the widespread rejection by audiences that lead it to have the absolute worst legs of any DC film in existence.

I'm kinda tired of this trend of constantly defending directors whenever a bad movie turns out bad—sometimes directors just do **** jobs. No one spent more time working on The Flash than Muschietti, and he was still the one that delivered the worst visuals of any blockbuster in the last few years. He was still the one that gave the movie its schizophrenic tone which you can blame on him since it was the same in IT Chapter 2.


The same exact reasons he was picked is the same exact reasons he should and will get the boot. He's replaceable, he has nothing to offer, he's a journeyman with no vision or creative instincts. You can find 15 other guys like him that'd do a better job. Both IT Chapter 2 and The Flash have proven that he's a studio puppet, yes, but he's an extremely bad and unreliable one. No company will want to take another 200 million dollar gamble on him.

So, this is secondary to whether or not they part ways but Muschietti totally has a distinct style and voice - I really dislike that voice but there’s a ton of stylistic overlap between It Chapter Two and The Flash. Flash is many (mostly bad) things but generic is not one of them and I can completely see why Gunn especially vibes with his style.

 

[Invader Joker]

So, this is secondary to whether or not they part ways but Muschietti totally has a distinct style and voice - I really dislike that voice but there’s a ton of stylistic overlap between It Chapter Two and The Flash. Flash is many (mostly bad) things but generic is not one of them and I can completely see why Gunn especially vibes with his style.

Do you actually believe Gunn likes Muschietti? I guess it's just speculation but I sincerely don't. More and more it seems obvious the whole exec PR line of "one of the best movies ever made" of The Flash was just something instructed for all WBD overheads to say by some marketing team. And I don't see him having opinions that cynical about movies as he's spouted and at the same time not seeing the glaring obvious issues of The Flash, especially the technical ones.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Do you actually believe Gunn likes Muschietti? I guess it's just speculation but I sincerely don't. More and more it seems obvious the whole exec PR line of "one of the best movies ever made" of The Flash was just something instructed for all WBD overheads to say by some marketing team.

Nah, Gunn was obviously overselling it but I think they genuinely believed they had a hit on their hands. I can totally see Gunn liking Flash a lot, it feels very up his alley.

 

[Invader Joker]

Nah, Gunn was obviously overselling it but I think they genuinely believed they had a hit on their hands. I can totally see Gunn liking Flash a lot, it feels very up his alley.

Eh, I don't because it's obvious he has a very marked disdain for incompetence and The Flash visuals are just the most clear example of complete incompetence on a director's part. Especially considering how his own work with VFX is a trillion times better. I don't see someone that has clearly spent so much time working on perfecting the technical aspects of his films, looking at how The Flash looked and thinking "perfect".

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Eh, I don't because it's obvious he has a very marked disdain for incompetence and The Flash visuals are just the most clear example of complete incompetence on a director's part. Especially considering how his own work with VFX is a trillion times better. I don't see someone that has clearly spent so much time working on perfecting the technical aspects of his films, looking at how The Flash looked and thinking "perfect".

Yep. And there’s more to movies than their visuals. I can think of so many narrative reasons Gunn would legit like it. Obviously none of us know, it’s just silly to think it’s unimaginable someone would like a movie because it has ugly visuals.

Muschietti was also clearly attached to Brave and the Bold as soon as Gunn came aboard. Gunn had been saying he’d be involved in the DCU from day one and it was always obvious what movie.

 

[Invader Joker]

Yep. And there’s more to movies than their visuals. I can think of so many narrative reasons Gunn would legit like it. Obviously none of us know, it’s just silly to think it’s unimaginable someone would like a movie because it has ugly visuals.

Muschietti was also clearly attached to Brave and the Bold as soon as Gunn came aboard. Gunn had been saying he’d be involved in the DCU from day one and it was always obvious what movie.

I mean he said that in the same exact press conference where he was talking about keeping Affleck as a director, finding a new role for Cavill, etc. It always struck me as more PR BS coming from him. Even the announcement felt like BS, seeing how he never even bothered tweeting it out on social media as he often does and neither did the Muschiettis post anything about it. Gunn just gave it to a trade and then radio silence which is uncharacteristic of him if he was really Muschietti's #1 fanboy.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I mean he said that in the same exact press conference where he was talking about keeping Affleck as a director, finding a new role for Cavill, etc. It always struck me as more PR BS coming from him. Even the announcement felt like BS, seeing how he never even bothered tweeting it out on social media as he often does and neither did the Muschiettis post anything about it. Gunn just gave it to a trade and then radio silence which is uncharacteristic of him if he was really Muschietti's #1 fanboy.

I don’t think he’s his number one fanboy, that’s hyperbole, but it being a fake announcement that he’s directing Brave and the Bold just feels like wishful thinking. Man who made multiple hits for the studio whose sensibility clearly lines up with Gunn who just made a movie the studio had a huge hard on for featuring Batman gets hired to make Batman movie. It’s not that complicated.

 

[Boom]

My understanding is The Flash is not doing well on HBO Max either.

I dunno. For a fledgling franchise trying to drum up excitement and engagement, signing on the guy that helmed one of the biggest box office bombs of all time is not ideal.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Other thing with the conspiracy theory: Why would Muschietti ever agree to be fake hired on a gig knowing he’ll be parting due to ‘creative differences’ which could be read as being fired later? What a humiliating ask of a director who was then massively in the studios good books.

Flash is a disaster but I really feel like there’s a lot of wishful thinking that the studio has better taste and judgment than they do.

 

[WatchProtect]

Directors with huge bombs like the one The Flash was tend to lose big projects and get a massive career downgrade afterwards. WBD is not gonna put the director of their biggest bomb in history in charge of their new Batman.

So It's just people guessing right?