The Avengers The Captain America/Chris Evans Thread - Part 1

[metaphysician]

The instance (and Cap) I'm talking about is 616.
But yeah, I believe Ultimates Cap is stronger.
(I still prefer 616)

My own take goes something like this:

616- "Peak Human", which translates in terms of strength and durability to something under class 1. He's fast, but no faster than the other A list non-superhuman street level types.

Ultimate- Competitive with Spider-man for strength and durability, so roughly Class 10. Speed is greater than human, but I'm not 100% sure if he's really bullet time.

EMH- Somewhere roughly in between. Call it halfway; he seems outright superhuman, but not quite to the same extent as Ultimate. Class 5 maybe? Speed seems to be just peak human, though.

Movie- A little less than the EMH version, so far. Call him Class 3 in strength, and slightly greater than peak human in speed ( though that especially is tough to judge in live action versus not ).

 

[hafizbat]

My own take goes something like this:

616- "Peak Human", which translates in terms of strength and durability to something under class 1. He's fast, but no faster than the other A list non-superhuman street level types.

Ultimate- Competitive with Spider-man for strength and durability, so roughly Class 10. Speed is greater than human, but I'm not 100% sure if he's really bullet time.

EMH- Somewhere roughly in between. Call it halfway; he seems outright superhuman, but not quite to the same extent as Ultimate. Class 5 maybe? Speed seems to be just peak human, though.

Movie- A little less than the EMH version, so far. Call him Class 3 in strength, and slightly greater than peak human in speed ( though that especially is tough to judge in live action versus not ).

Is the 616 version, the "real" Captain America, really that weak? Well, weak as in compared to other metahumans? I just find that a little hard to believe, seeing as he hangs with the most dangerous and powerful heroes and villains. For a WWII soldier that level fits, but I just think that Cap should be a bit more "super", like EMH, for him to really "belong".

 

[captainrogers]

My own take goes something like this:

616- "Peak Human", which translates in terms of strength and durability to something under class 1. He's fast, but no faster than the other A list non-superhuman street level types.

Ultimate- Competitive with Spider-man for strength and durability, so roughly Class 10. Speed is greater than human, but I'm not 100% sure if he's really bullet time.

EMH- Somewhere roughly in between. Call it halfway; he seems outright superhuman, but not quite to the same extent as Ultimate. Class 5 maybe? Speed seems to be just peak human, though.

Movie- A little less than the EMH version, so far. Call him Class 3 in strength, and slightly greater than peak human in speed ( though that especially is tough to judge in live action versus not ).

616 is peak human. Peak.
Someone who devotes themselves to all in one category could MAYBE HOPE to achieve peak. 616 Cap seems to straddle/exceed what we assume that to be in ALL categories.
So I'd say he's faster. (especially if he's able to run as ridiculously fast as "1 mile in a little over a minute"... )

 

[metaphysician]

And yet he doesn't outperform guys like Black Panther.

He's not weak, no, he's just not superhumanly buff. He makes up for that by being the most skilled martial artist who doesn't delve into outright chi powers, having an indestructible shield, and being the best tactician on the planet by a fairly long margin.

 

[captainrogers]

And yet he doesn't outperform guys like Black Panther.

He's not weak, no, he's just not superhumanly buff. He makes up for that by being the most skilled martial artist who doesn't delve into outright chi powers, having an indestructible shield, and being the best tactician on the planet by a fairly long margin.

Panther is also enhanced.
(heart-shaped herb)
I think, tho, that Cap still edges him out in some categories.
They've never really gone full out against eachother.
(T'Chaka did beat Cap one on one back when he was just starting out, but Steve was still green, while That Panther was in his prime of experience and ability, so it was a fair win)

 

[captainrogers]

Is the 616 version, the "real" Captain America, really that weak? Well, weak as in compared to other metahumans? I just find that a little hard to believe, seeing as he hangs with the most dangerous and powerful heroes and villains. For a WWII soldier that level fits, but I just think that Cap should be a bit more "super", like EMH, for him to really "belong".

I think what balances him out is that he's perfection on all "human" levels.
THAT's what makes him all the more impressive when he's able to "hang" with foes who out power him on a regular basis.
Master Man was a WW2 foe that was basically a Nazi Superman.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Ryan Meinerding interview regarding the upgrade of Captain America's costume from The First Avenger into a more superhero look in The Avengers .

 

[Smashlilman]

I liked the Cap's Costume from the First Avenger for what it was but i think they did the right thing by trying to update. It needed to look more like his actual costume.

 

[irapogi]

I wanna see him do some super soldiery stuff. In TFA, he was like a tank. But now that his costume is easier to move in, I hope he does some cool acrobatic moves or something

According to some people who were at New York, there is quite a bit of parkour

 

[DCnightwing23]

TFA costume fit really well with the timeframe of TFA, in modern day it just would work. It definitely needed to be much more streamlined, but i think, and im sure Meinerding mentioned this in that interview, was in TFA he said they made him look like a tank. Well i think you definitely need to maintain that in some way with the Avengers suit, i think they almost made this suit too streamlined and lost that gritty tank-like strength that cap has while also bringing in the slicker, agile look.

Overall the suit came out decent, im not hating on it as much now with what i've seen so far, so i definitely think there are things it can definitely improve upon

 

[The Morningstar]

The thing is, in live action, it's not really believable that a guy who is built like a linebacker, which comic book Cap is, can move around like an Olympic level gymnast. I think making him look more agile and slender was the way to go for live action.

In the comics seeing a guy who weighs like, 250 pounds doing triple front flips and jumping around like Spider-Man is ok. Live action I just don't think it would look right.

I think agility and speed are more important traits to Cap anyway. Obviously he still needs to be strong, but he doesn't need to built like a brick **** house. It can be explained away that he's still above normal strength by saying his muscles are denser and the fibers more tightly woven, no lactic acid build up etc.

 

[Xeno]

The thing is, in live action, it's not really believable that a guy who is built like a linebacker, which comic book Cap is, can move around like an Olympic level gymnast. I think making him look more agile and slender was the way to go for live action.

In the comics seeing a guy who weighs like, 250 pounds doing triple front flips and jumping around like Spider-Man is ok. Live action I just don't think it would look right.

I think agility and speed are more important traits to Cap anyway. Obviously he still needs to be strong, but he doesn't need to built like a brick **** house. It can be explained away that he's still above normal strength by saying his muscles are denser and the fibers more tightly woven, no lactic acid build up etc.

Bingo.


Oddly enough, when I read DCNightwing's post earlier I thought Evans is built more like a defensive back, a safety, than a linebacker. Safeties are smaller in build, yet extremely fast and able to bring down much larger players. In the Captain America suit he looks strong, but built for speed and endurance as well.

 

[The Morningstar]

Exactly. Seeing someone built like Urlacher running around doing flips all over the place would look a bit... silly, really. lol.

 

[Xeno]

Exactly. Seeing someone built like Urlacher running around doing flips all over the place would look a bit... silly, really. lol.

Yes. Anyone who's seen a safety or a corner bring down a massive fullback knows that size and strength don't necessarily correlate. They are also some of the fastest players on the field, they have to be in order to be able to chase down backs and wide receivers. The way Evans looks, it's believable that Cap can run 60 mph, perform acrobatics and take out bigger opponents, IMO.

 

[hafizbat]

I agree wholeheartedly, an NFL safety has the perfect physique IMO. They are one of the fastest on the field, only Wide Receivers are faster, and yet they can hit and tackle like linebackers. For Captain America, a Safety body is spot on. Linebackers sacrifice speed for power, while receivers and cornerbacks sacrifice mass for speed. This is ideal

 

[metaphysician]

Gotta agree there. Cap should not look like Ahnuld.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Definitely. I'd rather have Cap jumping all over the place than being a tank. We have Thor & Hulk as the tanks.

 

[TheVileOne]

The costume he had in TFA had limited mobility and it was hard for him to move around in and THAT'S not Captain America. Sorry.

Also it shows you that as I said, Evans was NEVER that big. He was wearing a big cumbersome costume designed to make him look big and good camera angles and makeup made him look bigger when he was shirtless.

 

[peterparker0077]

The costume he had in TFA had limited mobility and it was hard for him to move around in and THAT'S not Captain America. Sorry.

Also it shows you that as I said, Evans was NEVER that big. He was wearing a big cumbersome costume designed to make him look big and good camera angles and makeup made him look bigger when he was shirtless.

Not really true, Evans said he moved around fine in the TFA suit many times. The behind the scenes shows him doing a lot of moving around. They specially tailored the suit so that he could move easily.

 

[Savage]

Yeah, it wasn't exactly a Burton Batsuit or anything. He moved okay. The choreography of the action sequences just wasn't too ambitious.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Courtesy of Marvel_Freshman

 

[TheVileOne]

Not really true, Evans said he moved around fine in the TFA suit many times. The behind the scenes shows him doing a lot of moving around. They specially tailored the suit so that he could move easily.

Yes true. Straight from the horse's mouth when I spoke with him:

Chris Evans: They each have pros and cons. This, the first Cap costume, is very cumbersome. It's thick and it's bulky. It's tough to do fight sequences in. But the cowl, the helmet can come on and off at will. The current wardrobe is bit different. The suit is much more -- the range of motion is fantastic. You can really get some good sequences in. It's a little bit more form fitting. But the cowl, the cowl, the hood has some changes that make it a little bit more difficult to get it on and off.

 

[BigThor]

The thing is, in live action, it's not really believable that a guy who is built like a linebacker, which comic book Cap is, can move around like an Olympic level gymnast. I think making him look more agile and slender was the way to go for live action.

In the comics seeing a guy who weighs like, 250 pounds doing triple front flips and jumping around like Spider-Man is ok. Live action I just don't think it would look right.

I think agility and speed are more important traits to Cap anyway. Obviously he still needs to be strong, but he doesn't need to built like a brick **** house. It can be explained away that he's still above normal strength by saying his muscles are denser and the fibers more tightly woven, no lactic acid build up etc.

Definitely. I'd rather have Cap jumping all over the place than being a tank. We have Thor & Hulk as the tanks.

Agreed

 

[The Caped Knight]

Thanks to MF for the pic

 

[hafizbat]

I'm really glad that they went without the wing-ear things on Cap's helmet. I just really never liked those, they seem tacky and unnecessary. I think what they did, with the wing picture on the cowlmet is perfect. Does anybody actually like those wing-ear things? I hate em