Civil War The Captain America: Civil War News & Speculation Thread TAG SPOILERS! - Part 25

[hafizbat]

I don't think Iron Man was under powered. If the Mandarin could give him a good fight in IM3, Cap definitely should. Add in the situation they were in, and I found the fight very believable.

 

[Octoberist]

1) He has beaten Iron Man when Iron man suit was compromised a bit, Am I right? Im not sure.

2) I'm trying to say that if Iron Man wanted to, he could kill Bucky in 5 seconds. So there are two reasons - he wanted him alive, but I doubt that....second - They just underpowered IM so cap could win in his own movie...Which slightly bothers me..... That's all. If you compare IM from Avengers or even AOU or IM1...he would never lose battle with Cap in those movies.

It's an issue like im the comics too, depending on the story.

 

[Ninjablade]

I remember back in 2012, I was at a Stan Lee Q&A and someone asked him who he thought would win between The Avengers and X-Men since the AVX book was just starting. His answer was

"My opinion doesn't really matter because at the end of the day it's up to the writers. We can discuss power levels and stuff, but when it comes down to it, it all depends on what the writer thinks will best benefit the story they're trying to tell. As long as they're being respectful to the characters they're writing and the story is good, it shouldn't matter"

He went on to say who he would have win if he were writing it (his answer being neither- they wouldn't be fighting in the first place). So anytime I think of who should win in a fight for movies, I think of that.

I personally didn't feel Stark was under-powered or disrespected so I have no problems with Steve's win.

 

[Logan0327]

Whats My Name!!!

 

[AnneFan]

I remember back in 2012, I was at a Stan Lee Q&A and someone asked him who he thought would win between The Avengers and X-Men since the AVX book was just starting. His answer was

"My opinion doesn't really matter because at the end of the day it's up to the writers. We can discuss power levels and stuff, but when it comes down to it, it all depends on what the writer thinks will best benefit the story they're trying to tell."

Stan is 100% right.

 

[Venom'sDad]

They were involved in a discussion with Ross, to which point it's only natural to bring up any ironies or potential hypocrisy.

It doesn't acknowledge in anyway shape of form the movie he was introduced in. He had the last name of Ross, but beyond that could have been an entirely different character. They went about tying everyone else in just fine - so why not Ross?

J...I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying; but, TIH has always been the "step-child" in the MCU. It is understood it exist; yet, not completely embraced.

 

[samsnee]

This article sums up why the ending was so great.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/captain-america-3-end-of-the-end-of-the-world.html

 

[javonstokess]

This article sums up why the ending was so great.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/captain-america-3-end-of-the-end-of-the-world.html

Great article.

Though I think it's funny that some people "tire" of super heroes saving the world, when almost every other sci-fi movie or cartoon does the same and no one bats an eye lash.

 

[Anita18]

This article sums up why the ending was so great.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/captain-america-3-end-of-the-end-of-the-world.html

It doesn't even mention that nothing really resolves at the end. The Accords are still in place (probably), and the big baddie fight we were expecting doesn't come to fruition.

But what we DO learn is much more of our characters. We learn that Steve is not infallible, that he can make selfish, bad decisions. Not necessarily about Bucky, because he actually makes the same decisions about Wanda too. But the decision not to tell Tony the truth about his parents is incredibly selfish on Steve's part. He really needed to have cleared that up at the end of TWS, when he goes on (or assigns Sam) his short-lived mission to find Bucky.

And Tony learns that Steve isn't the symbol that Captain America stands for, he's just a guy doing what he thinks is right.

Spoiler

Steve demonstrates that when he leaves Tony the shield, completely willingly. Steve has never felt that he was the symbol Tony always thought of him to be, while until that moment, Tony has always treated Steve as "Captain America" the symbol.

Definitely an interesting way to end a big film like this. I hope they take that additional character understanding and make it matter for Infinity Wars.

 

[Silvermoon]

It doesn't even mention that nothing really resolves at the end. The Accords are still in place (probably), and the big baddie fight we were expecting doesn't come to fruition.

But what we DO learn is much more of our characters. We learn that Steve is not infallible, that he can make selfish, bad decisions. Not necessarily about Bucky, because he actually makes the same decisions about Wanda too. But the decision not to tell Tony the truth about his parents is incredibly selfish on Steve's part. He really needed to have cleared that up at the end of TWS, when he goes on (or assigns Sam) his short-lived mission to find Bucky.

And Tony learns that Steve isn't the symbol that Captain America stands for, he's just a guy doing what he thinks is right.

Spoiler

Steve demonstrates that when he leaves Tony the shield, completely willingly. Steve has never felt that he was the symbol Tony always thought of him to be, while until that moment, Tony has always treated Steve as "Captain America" the symbol.

Definitely an interesting way to end a big film like this. I hope they take that additional character understanding and make it matter for Infinity Wars.

That actually reminds me of a tumblr post I saw on my dashboard I think yesterday of someone analyzing the 'why' he dropped the shield/the significance of dropping the shield....

Spoiler

http://leala-lakota.tumblr.com/post/144104676214/so-i-just-saw-a-quote-from-the-russos-and-they

....When Tony says “I was wrong about you, the whole world was wrong about you” is 100% true. The whole world, even his friends, saw Steve as this selfless, patriotic hero, willing to save the day no matter what. But that’s not necessarily all Steve, that’s mostly Captain America. Yes, Steve is incredibly selfless and brave, but he was also just a kid from Brooklyn before getting the Cap persona. When he went under, he essentially lost everyone who knew him as “just steve” not “Captain America”.

So when Bucky comes back in his life, he’s more Steve Rogers. “When he said Bucky, I was the 16 year old kid from Brooklyn again.” Steve doesn’t have to be Captain America around Bucky. Steve doesn’t have to be this hero that everyone needs him to be. Because Bucky would rather be saved by Steve Rogers than Captain America.

Steve dropped the shield, rejected the idea of Captain America, because in reality, he isn’t just “Captain America,” he’s also Steve Rogers. And that scrawny kid from Brooklyn would do anything to save his best friend, even if that meant rejecting what the world saw him as.

 

[javonstokess]

Spoiler

I disagree that Steve dropped the shield because he was disregarding the Captain America mantle. I saw it as he didn't want to owe Tony anything. It's not like Steve has to stop being Captain America just because he doesn't have the shield, and he can probably make another shield (albeit not of Vibranium unless it's from T'Challa) and soldier on.

I think Steve trying to save Bucky stems from not only their friendship, but because Steve hates bullies and Bucky was taken advantage off by bullies. Bucky represents the downtrodden to Steve and Cap has always fought for the abused and downtrodden.

 

[ctsketch]

That actually reminds me of a tumblr post I saw on my dashboard I think yesterday of someone analyzing the 'why' he dropped the shield/the significance of dropping the shield....

Spoiler

http://leala-lakota.tumblr.com/post/144104676214/so-i-just-saw-a-quote-from-the-russos-and-they

 

[marcvader]

I certainly didn't get any kind of greater or significant meaning behind the shield drop.

 

[Anita18]

I disagree that Steve

Spoiler

dropped the shield because he was disregarding the Captain America mantle. I saw it as he didn't want to owe Tony anything. It's not like Steve has to stop being Captain America just because he doesn't have the shield, and he can probably make another shield (albeit not of Vibranium unless it's from T'Challa) and soldier on.

I think Steve trying to save Bucky stems from not only their friendship, but because Steve hates bullies and Bucky was taken advantage off by bullies. Bucky represents the downtrodden to Steve and Cap has always fought for the abused and downtrodden.

Maybe, BUT I definitely noticed that in the very last shot,

Spoiler

he goes to save his team from The Raft in civilian clothing. No Cap uniform in sight. He's no longer Captain America, he's Steve Rogers, through and through.

I certainly didn't get any kind of greater or significant meaning behind the shield drop.

The Russos and Kevin Feige actually agree with me. t:

Spoiler

4. Captain America is no longer Captain America

At the end of the movie, in the final fight, Cap effectively beats Iron Man. But it’s a bitter victory, and after some words exchanged, Cap drops his shield. The Russos say this is Steve Rogers saying goodbye to Captain America – at least, as we know him. “Dropping the shield is a rejection of the Captain America identity and a choice to embrace the Steve Rogers identity,” says Anthony.

He’s a “full-blown insurgent”, says Joe Russo, pointing out the arc that the character has taken, with Steve starting to question power structures in The Winter Soldier, taken to its natural conclusion in Civil War. “The most interesting thing you can do,” Joe observes, “is to take him from a patriot in the first film to an insurgent in the third movie.”

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/captain-america-civil-war-secrets/

 

[MbJ]

Amazing cast and crew poster.

 

[JB33]

Amazing cast and crew poster.

My God, that's lovely.

 

[Enriquespy]

The composition is top notch.

 

[craigdbfan]

Beautiful.

 

[Web-Head]

Going to see it again Saturday! This time in IMAX 2D. The IMAX 3D was a lot to take in during some of the action scenes

 

[The Guard]

I certainly didn't get any kind of greater or significant meaning behind the shield drop.

There's meaning there, or he wouldn't have done it.

Spoiler

He pretty clearly doesn't feel he owes Stark anything, and may even feel like he himself doesn't deserve the shield. He may well not be operating as Captain America by the end of the film.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There's meaning there, or he wouldn't have done it.

Spoiler

He pretty clearly doesn't feel he owes Stark anything, and may even feel like he himself doesn't deserve the shield. He may well not be operating as Captain America by the end of the film.

I take more as

Spoiler

he feels like he failed Tony and Howard by not letting Tony know, since it is Howard's name that gets him to stop and drop it. I don't think he quits being Captain America, as he mentions his Avengers being at his call still. I think he will get another shield. Possibly from T'challa.

 

[Steyin]

I took the

Spoiler

shield drop as being the better person. Tony yelling his father made it was just emotional frustration, taking out his daddy issues on Cap and not accepting his own faults for his relationship IMO. Tony thinking Steve didn't deserve it (more so being jealous of Steve's relationship with Howard), when Steve damn well knows its not the shield who makes him who he is.

 

[Erzengel]

I take more as

Spoiler

he feels like he failed Tony and Howard by not letting Tony know, since it is Howard's name that gets him to stop and drop it. I don't think he quits being Captain America, as he mentions his Avengers being at his call still. I think he will get another shield. Possibly from T'challa.

Spoiler

I think Tony will either return the shield to Cap or even Bucky saying the World needs Captain America.

 

[whatsername]

Spoiler

I think Tony will either return the shield to Cap or even Bucky saying the World needs Captain America.

That would break my freaking heart. So good.

 

[Raiden]

I take more as

Spoiler

he feels like he failed Tony and Howard by not letting Tony know, since it is Howard's name that gets him to stop and drop it. I don't think he quits being Captain America, as he mentions his Avengers being at his call still. I think he will get another shield. Possibly from T'challa.

Spoiler

The shield drop is very symbolic. I don't believe that Steve consider himself to still be Cap without his shield, and I also don't think he will just get another one from Wakanda. He will eventually get his original shield back, not replacing it with a new one.