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Discussion in 'Captain America: Civil War' started by Thread Manager, May 16, 2016.
Given how much I roll my eyes at CinemaSins "Everything Wrong With" videos these days... I think I just might subscribe to this channel.
I really enjoyed War Machine in this far more than his Iron Man appearances.
See this Lego video about the airport fight.
I stumbled across that video a couple of weeks ago and immediately subscribed to the channel. It is a great takedown of Cinema Sins, which has become an extreme parody of itself. There is no reason to do a 20-minute video dissing any film, much less a good film. Hell, even the bad movies shouldn't take more than five minutes to send up. The far superior Honest Trailers and How It Should Have Ended make their shorts five minutes or less, generally.
Sounds more like sour grapes from those who have issue with people critiquing Civil War. Heck, a day or so AFTER the Honest Trailers Civil War video came out, in which it said that of course the movie wouldn't have consequences, there was some chart or photo out displaying a counter-argument to that. This:
Even though you could just as easily counter-argument these, it's like 'Really, guys? Can't lighten up for even a bit for some ribbing at a film you love?'
Love this scene so much.
I absolutely loathe that scene.
It was alright.
It feels hamfisted to me. Like they're trying to shove it down your throat how guilty Stark feels. There are superior ways of doing it.
I understand. That's why that scene did nothing for me but it could have been worse.
Plus, it's a scene that should have been in Age of Ultron, if anywhere. Stark skips away from that movie with no conceivable repercussions. It looks like Rhodey will even be back to normal by the time Infinity War comes around.
Its supposed to be ham-fisted, its someone walking up to a Tony Stark whose clearly struggling with guilt, and smacking his buttons with a hammer. It shouldn't come off as sincere, since it almost certainly isn't.
Yeah, I figured that the fall-out for what both sides have done would show in IW them with some sort of struggle with their prior actions.
Then I saw Spiderman:Homecoming.
Tony looked pretty damn relaxed & not at all bothered by past discretion. I know we don't have the full story, but damn. I'm guessing the people who discuss story lines are team Stark
But again, I am sure it will be at least mentioned in IW. They have a lot of stuff to put in that movie. wow
I've had a question ever since the first time I saw Civil War, maybe someone can clear it up for me...
When Natasha convinces Black Panther to join her and Iron Man, BP asks her if she knows where Cap & WS will be and she specifically says "I know someone who does."
Who is she referring to? The scene after directly cuts to Sharon getting out of the car to meet with Steve, but I can't imagine she's feeding info to Widow.
No but I understood it to mean she was following Sharon.
Yup, and you get a hint of it in the scene where Sharon turns on the "restricted" sound to Bucky in his cage & then they show Black Widow noticing that she did that.
My issue with all of that, is Sharon really loved her job. AND Caps Shield & Sams bird costume are pretty big items. Taking them with no one seeing? That seems weird.
It gets me thinking that maybe BW convinced Sharon to tell her where Cap is. To kind of set him up.
Sharon thinks its for his own good because BW is very persuasive.
But, I highly doubt it's that in depth. I'm sure it will be glossed over since Infinity War is already packed full of story lines to cover.
Imagine the only consequence from a Civil War film is Rhodes being paralyzed from the waist down? And by the end of the film, he could actually walk with the help of supports.
It would make so much more of an impact if he was dead (and not that I want him dead). I swear that scene where he crash lands, I though he was dead. That scene was extremely well crafted, gripping, but of course, he survives that.
There better be serious consequences in Infinity War, that's what I am hoping for the most.
My problem with the movie is that so many parts of it have never been explained. We don't even know if Sharon is on the run or not. It seems she's not in BP with E.Ross, but she isn't with Steve in the ending either.
I think it's a huge missing scene. We needed to see how BW followed Sharon or if Sharon told her herself... I guess the filmmakers just got afraid that the audience would hate Sharon for that.
I don't know where people get it from. My problem with Sharon is that she has never been shown struggling between her loyalty to work and feelings for Cap. She just betrayed her job from the start. End of story. She had no clear motivation, Cap wasn't even her friend, they barely knew each other.
And I was even okay with that, since she might have been doing it in the memory of Peggy, until Bucky hurt her and killed many of her colleagues.
By the way, this is a scene that totally should have been included in the movie. Too bad that they tossed Sharon's motivations and development out of the window. I bet initial script had a scene between her and BW as well.
I like that scene, but that's the type of scene that gets cut from movies like this. Keep in mind, we are already talking about a two and a half hour film with a bunch of character motivations.
But that's the thing. You can't do a movie like this with that many characters without some getting short changed.
We know why Hawkeye does it theres that line about "I owe a debt." It wouldn't have taken long to write in an explanation. One or two comments, thats all.
Somehow they have enough time for everyone, but Sharon.
You are allowed to short change a character, when he is meaningless like Maria Hill. Or Happy Hogan.
However, it's still a Cap's movie and Sharon is a major Cap's supporting character, not to mention his supposed LI. If you don't have time and don't want to develop her - fine. But then just don't make a disservice to the character and don't add her to the movies at all.
They have time for shallow dialogs about 'keeping a list' and rushed out-of-nowhere kisses, they have time for Rhodey's motivations and even his own monologue, but they don't have 15-20 seconds to explain properly Sharon risking her entire career and even freedom for a man she barely knows?
Notice, how they are aware that some audience might perceive her actions as just a shallow desire to get into Captain America's pants.
I want to love Sharon, but I just can't with this awful writing. She came out as a fangirl to me in CW due to her complete lack of any logical motivation. It's disrespectful to treat your female characters like that. The Russos and M&M should take lessons from Gunn about how to handle three major female characters simultaneously in one movie.
Yes, that would have answered a lot of questions if they did the above.
In my opinion, she loves her job so much because of how she acted in WS.
She could have been like the other Shield agents and stood off to the side while Crossbones was going to kill their co-worker. But she didn't. She saved that guys life. I think they tried to show that she was very much like Peggy when it came to being dedicated to work & her duty.
That's what I got out of all of it anyway. With WS & then everything with the funeral & after..
One thing that really kinda bugs me is the idea that people have a problem with Cap trying to get to Bucky 1st. He even says to BW that he is the only one that can take him in. BW of all people knows Bucky is like Cap, a super solider. So he can very easily kill any regular person that tries to stop him.
Maybe that was Sharon, once again, trying to save her co-workers/military lives. By helping Cap get to Bucky 1st.
When she helped Cap get to Bucky after the power went out, I don't think anyone knew that Zemo brainwashed him, so they had no idea he would kill people & try to kill her to escape.
When she sees Bucky in the car, I guess that when Cap contacted her to meet up with his stuff, he quickly told her he's not all murdery anymore & thats why she wasn't more upset at seeing him.
I'm not sure why they wanted to imply Sharon did all of this because she had the hots for Cap.
Saying this stuff "out loud" gets me thinking even more so that she actually did tell BW where they were meeting & Caps plan. (How else would Team Stark know to hide out at the airport)
She did it, not to betray Cap, but she thought it was for his own good.
Phew! Thanks for letting me get that off my chest lol. The whole Sharon thing could of been done so much better.
She had the other job in TWS, though.
I don't recall that the other Shield agents stood off either. As soon as Crossbones pointed a gun on their co-worker, they all (who weren't Hydra anyway) stood up against him along with Sharon.
And many agents sacrificed their lives. For me it looked more like "Am I Hydra or am I a good guy?" case than it was about them loving their job. It's the simple question of morality.
In TWS - maybe. But at no point in CW was she shown as someone who loves her job, that's the problem. She is not loyal to it a one bit. She is all about helping Steve from the very start, and we don't even know, why exactly, aside from her being a plot-device.
Yes, maybe. I don't have a problem with Sharon giving Cap intel on Bucky. And I don't have a problem when she helped Cap get to Bucky after the power went out either.
I have a problem with her actions after Bucky escaped his cage and hurt her and killed her co-workers. She's seen all of it herself, with her own eyes. She was hurt by him, Tony was almost killed, as well as Natasha. Sharon has seen dead bodies.
She believes Cap's word? And Cap has actually no better evidence than Bucky's word. I get why Cap trusts Bucky, but Sharon has no reason to do so. Even if she thinks he isn't responsible for his actions, she still has every reason to think he should be kept in a protective custody for the collective good. She shouldn't help such a dangerous man to run. Peggy would have never done such a thing.
Zemo is their fault. They let a fake doctor to enter their building and gain access to their prisoner. If Sharon believes that Zemo is to blame then she should report about this danger to her boss or investigate Zemo herself and call Russia to stop him in their airport. She is the one, who works in counterterrorism centre, not Steve. Do your job, woman!
I don't think they wanted to do that. On the contrary, they were aware that some people might perceive her actions like that, so they wanted to debunk it and rightfully wrote her a scene establishing her motivations to show the audience her mindset, her way of thinking. Alas, it didn't make the cut.
We don't know that. It's not in the movie. There is no canon explaining that.
We can make up different suggestions, make headcanons, but as long as we don't have any facts, there are still several different possibilities. She might have told BW herself. Or BW might have followed her without Sharon being aware of that. She is such an underdeveloped character, we know so little about her that we just can't be sure what is more likely.
And anyway, if she told BW herself then what was even the point of bringing his shield back to Cap? To make him more capable to fight with team Tony? It doesn't make any sense.
People like to project Peggy or her comic-books counterpart on the MCU Sharon, but it's just a cop-out. What Would Peggy Do? is clearly the conclusion that the writers want us to draw. They don't spend any time building up the new character they use Peggy instead. And that's the problem with Sharon Carter. She is a second-rate replacement without her own motivations or personality. She needs to stand on her own feet, without all this "she is like Peggy!".
Yeah, this is what frustrates me so much. I love Cap and want the best for him and his characters. But alas, alas, alas.
Right, but she thought she was working for her Country.
Crossbones puts the gun to the guys head, and Sharon walks over and pulls her gun out, then all the other agents pulled their guns after. It was really quick, so it wasn't too obvious.
I guess I thought the "loving her job" part in Civil War was when she was walking with Steve to the elevator and she was talking about how she wanted to do what she does since she was little...
I agree with you on the Loyalty part. There was never, not once, a scene shown in that movie that showed her loyal to her job.
That really sucks. Thy should have fit that scene in. It would have explained a few things lol. They get a "What were they thinking?!" for that.
Yes, a lot isn't in the movies. So speculation is all there is for now. I agree with you on a lot of your points.
I am not a Sharon fan, I just like to try to fill in the tiny plot holes this movie has.
Everything I say is just "what ifs" until, hopefully one day they add a sentence or two explaining some of these little annoyances.
Civil War is my most favorite Superhero movie to date. I have watched it more times than I care to admit. So after a while, I start seeing the little parts that early on I either just missed, or ignored. Then they grow bigger for me after each additional viewing lol. So it's nice to have a place to dump out thoughts & get new perspectives