The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread (🚨SPOILERS🚨)

[Gu3ree]

Man of Steel: (2013) $670,145,518
Superman Returns: (2006) $404,231,192
Superman: (1978) $300,478,449
Superman II: (1981) $216,385,706
Superman III: (1983) $80,250,623

This is the top grossing Superman movies, excluding BvS or Justice League (because they are crossover movies, not movies where Superman is the sole attraction). Based on this, Superman making a billion would be all time historic and an absolute game changer (because even BvS and Justice League didn't hit that threshold). Which is why having that as an expectation is crazy, because no Superman movie has ever hit above $670 mill.

If Superman gets to $700 mill or in that range, that is still the highest grossing Superman movie of all time.

I'm more surprised that Superman II didn't make more than Superman I, but even less. How is that?

 

[flickchick85]

I'm more surprised that Superman II didn't make more than Superman I, but even less. How is that?

Because it wasn't as good.

 

[Gu3ree]

Because it wasn't as good.

Many consider it to be the higher achievement of the series.

 

[flickchick85]

Many consider it to be the higher achievement of the series.

Obviously not the audiences of the time. And they’d be right, imo. The unfinished Donner Cut is better and still a lesser film to the first.

 

[GreenKToo]

The salkinds got rid of donner mid way through production. It suffered for it.

 

[Lily Adler]

Obviously not the audiences of the time. And they’d be right, imo. The unfinished Donner Cut is better and still a lesser film to the first.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I do wonder what Superman II would have been like if Donner had gotten to come back and finish it properly. How much better would it have been than the theatrical cut and the 2006 Donner Cut if he had been able to reshoot scenes he felt could be improved on? What would he have changed, plot wise? He would have to come up with a new ending, obviously (the turn the world backwards thing on the Donner Cut was only the ending because that was the original intended ending for II, and it got moved to STM because STM didn't have a real ending). How much more scarier would the phantom zone criminals have been, without the goofy small town stuff.

 

[Gu3ree]

Obviously not the audiences of the time. And they’d be right, imo. The unfinished Donner Cut is better and still a lesser film to the first.

I can't say I completely agree. While the theatrical cut has its plotholes, and cheesy moments that I didn't like, I still prefer the theatrical cut. I didn't like the way the Donner cut started with Lois instantly figuring out Clark might be Superman. Superman didn't have his first scene until Niagara Falls which was kind of late. In the supposed "restored" cut of the Donner version, they seemed to be disrespecting the special effects of the time, making them look cheaper and worse than the effects actually looked in the 1980's. While the Donner cut has scenes in it that were superior to the Lester cut, and explained many of the plot holes in the Lester version, the Donner cut was still a very unfinished film.

While the mind erasing kiss scene made no sense in the Lester cut, it was still better than spinning the world backwards (AGAIN) back to the beginning of the movie in the Donner version. That was even worse than the kissing mind-wipe. Just my opinion. The ending to the Donner cut ruined it for me. Ultimately, I still prefer the theatrical cut.

 

[flickchick85]

I can't say I completely agree. While the theatrical cut has its plotholes, and cheesy moments that I didn't like, I still prefer the theatrical cut. I didn't like the way the Donner cut started with Lois instantly figuring out Clark might be Superman. Superman didn't have his first scene until Niagara Falls which was kind of late. In the supposed "restored" cut of the Donner version, they seemed to be disrespecting the special effects of the time, making them look cheaper and worse than the effects actually looked in the 1980's. While the Donner cut has scenes in it that were superior to the Lester cut, and explained many of the plot holes in the Lester version, the Donner cut was still a very unfinished film.

While the mind erasing kiss scene made no sense in the Lester cut, it was still better than spinning the world backwards (AGAIN) back to the beginning of the movie in the Donner version. That was even worse than the kissing mind-wipe. Just my opinion. The ending to the Donner cut ruined it for me. Ultimately, I still prefer the theatrical cut.

That’s your prerogative! I don’t like either version version of Superman II at all, personally, but if forced to sit through one of them, I’d go with the unfinished Donner Cut every time. The theatrical version just has too much silliness I can’t get past.

 

[Lily Adler]

That’s your prerogative! I don’t like either version version of Superman II at all, personally, but if forced to sit through one of them, I’d go with the unfinished Donner Cut every time. The theatrical version just has too much silliness I can’t get past.

 

[Chris B]

I do wonder what Superman II would have been like if Donner had gotten to come back and finish it properly. How much better would it have been than the theatrical cut and the 2006 Donner Cut if he had been able to reshoot scenes he felt could be improved on? What would he have changed, plot wise? He would have to come up with a new ending, obviously (the turn the world backwards thing on the Donner Cut was only the ending because that was the original intended ending for II, and it got moved to STM because STM didn't have a real ending). How much more scarier would the phantom zone criminals have been, without the goofy small town stuff.

I'm imagining a world where we'd have seen proper adaptations of Brainiac and Bizarro instead of whatever the computer from Superman III or Nuclear Man were had Donner been kept around.

 

[Gu3ree]

It never occurred to me until recently that in the Lester cut, was the line "Would you care to step outside?" a callback to the diner scene where mortal Clark got beaten by the truck driver? Clark said the same line, "Excuse me sir, would you care to step outside?" before confronting General Zod as Superman.

Was that intentional? Anyways, I still prefer this line better than, "Have you ever heard of freedom of the press?"

That aside, the scenes with Jor-El were far better than the scenes with Lara, though those scenes weren't that bad either.

 

[AntonGobbs89]

I do wonder what Superman II would have been like if Donner had gotten to come back and finish it properly. How much better would it have been than the theatrical cut and the 2006 Donner Cut if he had been able to reshoot scenes he felt could be improved on? What would he have changed, plot wise? He would have to come up with a new ending, obviously (the turn the world backwards thing on the Donner Cut was only the ending because that was the original intended ending for II, and it got moved to STM because STM didn't have a real ending). How much more scarier would the phantom zone criminals have been, without the goofy small town stuff.

In getting hyped for this new film I rewatched Superman the Movie, Superman 2, Superman Returns, and I’m currently rewatching Superman TAS.

The main thing that I wish had been included are all the Jor-El scenes. Clark giving up his powers and regaining them are given much more weight in those scenes.

But to what you were saying about Zod and his crew, I think they’re slightly more sadistic in the Donner footage. You can see it in the one moment where they siege the White House and Zod starts shooting at people with a smile on his face.

 

[AntonGobbs89]

That’s your prerogative! I don’t like either version version of Superman II at all, personally, but if forced to sit through one of them, I’d go with the unfinished Donner Cut every time. The theatrical version just has too much silliness I can’t get past.

I’m cool with most of it, but where it really loses me is the extended slapstick sequence of the people being blown down the street.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I like both versions of Superman II a whole bunch but I’ll watch the Donner cut over theatrical any day. The silliness doesn’t bother me at all in theatrical but it’s almost objectively a dramatically stronger story in the Donner cut.

 

[Mysteryman]

I LOVE the theatrical version of, Superman II.
I saw it on my 20th birthday.
Which was, a LONG time ago.

 

[Gu3ree]

If I'm being honest with myself, I never completely liked Superman II as much as others seemed to like it. I actually first watched the Christopher Reeve Superman movies out of order. I seldom watch Superman II. Superman III was the first CR Superman movie I watched. It was the only one of the series available at my local public library at the time. I actually love Superman III as bad as it is, but the parts that are good in it I like, especially the junkyard battle. But those opening credits are just flat-out uncalled for and ridiculous. Why did the studio approve that? Having said that though, I still loved Superman's first scene where he changed in the picture booth. But that doesn't go without saying that it was dumb to go on that long while a man was drowning, but somehow that man couldn't try getting out from another window or try rolling one of his windows down?

Prior to this, I only genuinely liked Superman as a kid, but I wasn't really the fan I am today until I was about 7 years old. Before Reeve, my Superman was Dean Cain, Superman the animated series and then Max Fleischer's Superman. These Superman medias were how I first became aware of Superman.

I wish I had seen the movies in the correct order. I saw Superman III first, Superman: The Movie, Superman IV (I loved it at the time when I was a kid) and then finally I saw Superman II. To be honest, watching Superman II was a little underwhelming as I saw Superman IV first which follows some of the same plot lines as Superman II. I realize how bad Superman IV was as I got older. As bad as Superman IV was though, I still enjoy many elements from the movie.

The plot of Superman II was really good, but I admit that in the theatrical version, Zod comes off as a little silly. "Bow. Kneel. Why do you say this to me when you know I will **ll you for it?" It seems as if Zod was just evil for the sake of being evil without any real motive. Zod was otherwise pretty dull. But I like Zod as a villain, and I still prefer Terence Stamp over Michael Shanon's Zod. In the Donner cut, Zod seemed slightly better. His objective seemed more clear. He wanted revenge of Jor-El. Having said that, I did like Callum Blue's Zod a little more in Smallville. It was like the same version of Zod inspired by the Donner movies, but had more ground and character development.

Aside from that aspect in Superman II, the Niagara Falls rescue scene was also silly. It took the boy 30 seconds to fall close enough to the bottom. That mother...my God. "Hey mom, look! I'm about to fall!" -"Uh-huh, yeah honey, that's nice." The crowd reactions were corny.

 

[Mysteryman]

I do wonder what Superman II would have been like if Donner had gotten to come back and finish it properly. How much better would it have been than the theatrical cut and the 2006 Donner Cut if he had been able to reshoot scenes he felt could be improved on? What would he have changed, plot wise? He would have to come up with a new ending, obviously (the turn the world backwards thing on the Donner Cut was only the ending because that was the original intended ending for II, and it got moved to STM because STM didn't have a real ending). How much more scarier would the phantom zone criminals have been, without the goofy small town stuff.

What was the original ending for, STM?

 

[AndrewGilkison]

What was the original ending for, STM?

It was a cliffhanger with the missile that Superman throws in space exploding and freeing the phantom zone criminals. So there was no real ending, basically.

 

[Mysteryman]

I'm more surprised that Superman II didn't make more than Superman I, but even less. How is that?

Superman III did far worse and is a TERRIBLE FILM!

 

[Mysteryman]

It was a cliffhanger with the missile that Superman throws in space exploding and freeing the phantom zone criminals. So there was no real ending, basically.

Good that they changed it.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The time travel ending is vastly better suited to the climax of ‘78 than II anyway.

 

[GreenKToo]

Supposedly they wanted brainiac for 3 but couldn't get the rights. Not sure how true that is.
And Pryor at the time, was at his peak.
Parts of it are very cringe. I can't watch it.

 

[donuts]

They did have the rights, and I believe they did consider using Braniac, but ultimately just settled for what they did on Superman III.

Needless to say, the Salkinds didn't care too much about the comic book legacy.

 

[Tra-El]

That’s your prerogative! I don’t like either version version of Superman II at all, personally, but if forced to sit through one of them, I’d go with the unfinished Donner Cut every time. The theatrical version just has too much silliness I can’t get past.

Superman II is a good reminder of how big of a masterpiece '78 is (holds up in the modern day flawlessly). I do a marathon of the Reeve films from time to time and I took it over a movie night gathering and we watched Superman II. The group didn't get through it lol. The more watches I aim for, the more it doesn't hold up.