The Daily Planet - Superman News and Speculation Thread (🚨SPOILERS🚨)

[Babillygunn]

It’s more than the board I am just giving a simple example because the last few pages have been talking about Donner’s movies. Let’s not sugar coat it Superman 2 was just ok for the general audience. Superman for the most part has had a long struggle sense the 80s remember they killed him off, changed his power set, and even gave Supes a mullet. Superman has been saved over the years by the live action television shows, the Justice League Cartoon, ect. For some reason mainstream has not excepted Big Blue. I have a feeling something is different with Gunn’s Superman. I don’t think this is fake hype.

I do get what you are saying. But I don’t know that I 100% agree. Superman 2 was a hit in its day, or at least that is my memory. I remember when it came out, it was a staple on the early days of cable tv. It may be just the memory of a child’s perception but I just remember that movie always being on. And he was wildly popular in the ‘80s. Then Frank Miller wrote DKR and Burton came out with Batman ‘89 and Batman, a character that was way on the decline, saw a renewed popularity.
The times were different then. You didn’t necessarily see situations where a big hit comes out and then studios would churn out other hits in the same genre. Because that hadn’t really been a successful model. After Star Wars, some studios tried their hand at space operas and it didn’t hit. Disney sunk a bunch of money into The Black Hole and it failed. A lot of this was because the hit had set the bar too high. So the success of Batman ‘89 didn’t usher in a ton of other big budget superhero films. At best, it ushered in low budget Cannon films like Dolph Lungren’s Punisher, or television shows like the 1990 Flash. So it wasn’t all that surprising that Superman didn’t get a film after the success of ‘89.

After the success of Batman Returns, we did get Superman return on television with Lois and Clark, which was very successful and aired for a number of seasons. I’d argue that after Batman Forever, Superman may have been rivaling Batman in popularity at that time despite not being on the big screen for a couple of decades. That’s why, when DC decided to have an enormous event comic with a “death of” angle, they went with Superman as opposed to Batman. The result was the highest selling comic of all time. That wouldn’t be the case for a character that the public did not care about.
As far as the mullet is concerned, weird as it sounds, mullets were considered cool for a hot minute during that time period. Young people did mullets in late ‘80s and early ‘90s. And giving that hairstyle to characters like Superman and Nightwing was actually a show of respect by middle-aged white guy creators who thought that was the general audience’s definition of looking cool. It hasn’t aged well, but a lot of stuff from the Bronze Age hasn’t aged well.

Throughout it all, I think people have been itching for good Superman content. We just haven’t gotten it on the big screen. But it is telling that the Superman films that weren’t made are considered the stuff of legend. People still talk about Superman Lives, or Superman:Flyby in ways that Arnofsky’s Batman Year One could only dream of.
Again, I don’t see that happening for a character that nobody cares about.

In the end, I’m pretty sure that if you give people a good Superman film, they will go see it. Give them something that is bad, and they won’t. It’s just that simple.

 

[STARMAN]

Superman II was well received critically and made 420 million domestically adjusted for inflation despite coming out the same month as Raiders of the Lost Ark and James Bond's For Your Eyes Only. There have been mixed to poor reactions to the Superman movies since mainly due to the quality of those films and not to the character itself. The general audience has shown time and again they're willing to give Superman a chance as recently as MOS when it set the then June opening weekend BO record. They want to see Superman in a good movie and it's WB responsibility to give it to them.

 

[DCDAVE]

The Empire Strikes Back made less than Star Wars back in the day.

And I think we're being a tad revisionist here.

While Superman was definitely considered the better movie, Superman II was widely regarded as good, as well, and was fairly successful.

Superman II was on par with Man of Steel. The people who love it “Love it” I am just saying Superman the movie was the only movie in the Superman lore that was loved universally. Empire Strikes Back is considered the greatest Star Wars movie of all time. Star Wars fandom is weird. All three of the sequels made a billion dollars and their fandom wants to erase those movies from existence.

 

[DCDAVE]

I do get what you are saying. But I don’t know that I 100% agree. Superman 2 was a hit in its day, or at least that is my memory. I remember when it came out, it was a staple on the early days of cable tv. It may be just the memory of a child’s perception but I just remember that movie always being on. And he was wildly popular in the ‘80s. Then Frank Miller wrote DKR and Burton came out with Batman ‘89 and Batman, a character that was way on the decline, saw a renewed popularity.
The times were different then. You didn’t necessarily see situations where a big hit comes out and then studios would churn out other hits in the same genre. Because that hadn’t really been a successful model. After Star Wars, some studios tried their hand at space operas and it didn’t hit. Disney sunk a bunch of money into The Black Hole and it failed. A lot of this was because the hit had set the bar too high. So the success of Batman ‘89 didn’t usher in a ton of other big budget superhero films. At best, it ushered in low budget Cannon films like Dolph Lungren’s Punisher, or television shows like the 1990 Flash. So it wasn’t all that surprising that Superman didn’t get a film after the success of ‘89.

After the success of Batman Returns, we did get Superman return on television with Lois and Clark, which was very successful and aired for a number of seasons. I’d argue that after Batman Forever, Superman may have been rivaling Batman in popularity at that time despite not being on the big screen for a couple of decades. That’s why, when DC decided to have an enormous event comic with a “death of” angle, they went with Superman as opposed to Batman. The result was the highest selling comic of all time. That wouldn’t be the case for a character that the public did not care about.
As far as the mullet is concerned, weird as it sounds, mullets were considered cool for a hot minute during that time period. Young people did mullets in late ‘80s and early ‘90s. And giving that hairstyle to characters like Superman and Nightwing was actually a show of respect by middle-aged white guy creators who thought that was the general audience’s definition of looking cool. It hasn’t aged well, but a lot of stuff from the Bronze Age hasn’t aged well.

Throughout it all, I think people have been itching for good Superman content. We just haven’t gotten it on the big screen. But it is telling that the Superman films that weren’t made are considered the stuff of legend. People still talk about Superman Lives, or Superman:Flyby in ways that Arnofsky’s Batman Year One could only dream of.
Again, I don’t see that happening for a character that nobody cares about.

In the end, I’m pretty sure that if you give people a good Superman film, they will go see it. Give them something that is bad, and they won’t. It’s just that simple.

Those Batman movies after Batman Returns were awful. They would have given Superman 3/4 a run for their money with the All time Razzies.

 

[The Batman]

It’s more than the board I am just giving a simple example because the last few pages have been talking about Donner’s movies. Let’s not sugar coat it Superman 2 was just ok for the general audience.

Let's not act as if you've presented rock solid facts. Since we're not sugar coating, your argument has been flimsy, based off a slanted interpretation of the Box Office, and the nebulous concept of "the boards".

Yes, Superman 2 made less money than the original. And yet, domestically, Superman 2 was the third highest grossing film of 1981. If you go by domestic Calendar Gross, it's actually the highest grossing film of 1981, similar to how STM was the highest grossing film of 1979 in terms of domestic calendar grosses.

In terms of reviews, it currently has an 83% on RT, and an 83 on Metacritic. The latter regards that number as "Universal Acclaim" territory.

And as already mentioned, plenty of well regarded sequels gross less than the original.

No one is sugar coating anything by disagreeing with your questionable view of Superman 2's reception. There's enough evidence that suggests that Superman 2 doesn't necessarily have a "mixed bag" reputation.

 

[donuts]

Superman II was on par with Man of Steel. The people who love it “Love it” I am just saying Superman the movie was the only movie in the Superman lore that was loved universally. Empire Strikes Back is considered the greatest Star Wars movie of all time. Star Wars fandom is weird. All three of the sequels made a billion dollars and their fandom wants to erase those movies from existence.

Why are you so obsessed with making up this narrative which is just not true?

Superman 2 was pretty well regarded, successful and popular back in the day.

People didn't even separate it that much from the first movie. Those were the two good Superman movies, with 3 and 4 being considered the bad ones.

And funnily, The Empire Strikes Back got mixed reviews when it came out (Superman II got positive ones).

 

[dhandler01]

Superman II was on par with Man of Steel. The people who love it “Love it” I am just saying Superman the movie was the only movie in the Superman lore that was loved universally. Empire Strikes Back is considered the greatest Star Wars movie of all time. Star Wars fandom is weird. All three of the sequels made a billion dollars and their fandom wants to erase those movies from existence.

That may be the case now, but it was definitely not the case then. Superman 2 was nothing like MOS when it came to reception or how it hit with the audience. MOS had almost zero cultural impact (outside the shield) and the rewatchablity factor for the GA was almost zilch. Even Superman fans were divided on it and it has not aged well because of what came after it.

For a long time Superman 2 was the gold standard of the CBM sequel and often sequels in general for blockbusters. When Spiderman 2 or X-Men 2 or even Batman Returns came out the phrase you often heard was "This is going to be their Superman 2" because Superman 2 was the template and the goal. More drama, more villains, more action...etc. (I mean come on Spidey loses his friggin powers in #2) To this day Superman 2 is still quoted (kneel before Zod!) and Zod is one of the more widely known villains in the Superman Universe and an expected foe. (Terrance Stamp was just the best!) I doubt Zod was known by most Superman fans prior to it.

And remember back in the day sequels often didnt make more than the original even if they were beloved. Godfather 2 made less than Godfather. (and plenty of people love the Godfather 2 as much or more including many critics) Empire made less than A New Hope and well...yeah its the better film even though Star Wars is iconic. For the most part the "sequels are bigger and make more" belief is a rather new phenomenon.

Superman The Movie is a better film, there is no doubt about it. But honestly outside of a few scenes (helicopter save, phone booth) Superman 2 is way more memorable. It had the better villains and the more compelling story overall for an action film. That is why, as I said before, Superman 2 was on probably 3 times a month for the first 15 years of my life and is easily the CBM I have seen the most...and I saw TDK in the theater 8 times. Superman 2 took the cultural phenomenon of Superman: TM and used it to become a cultural icon.

TLDR: Today it might not be, but for about 20 years Superman 2 was considered greatness.

 

[AntonGobbs89]

That may be the case now, but it was definitely not the case then. Superman 2 was nothing like MOS when it came to reception or how it hit with the audience. MOS had almost zero cultural impact (outside the shield) and the rewatchablity factor for the GA was almost zilch. Even Superman fans were divided on it and it has not aged well because of what came after it.

For a long time Superman 2 was the gold standard of the CBM sequel and often sequels in general for blockbusters. When Spiderman 2 or X-Men 2 or even Batman Returns came out the phrase you often heard was "This is going to be their Superman 2" because Superman 2 was the template and the goal. More drama, more villains, more action...etc. (I mean come on Spidey loses his friggin powers in #2) To this day Superman 2 is still quoted (kneel before Zod!) and Zod is one of the more widely known villains in the Superman Universe and an expected foe. (Terrance Stamp was just the best!) I doubt Zod was known by most Superman fans prior to it.

And remember back in the day sequels often didnt make more than the original even if they were beloved. Godfather 2 made less than Godfather. (and plenty of people love the Godfather 2 as much or more including many critics) Empire made less than A New Hope and well...yeah its the better film even though Star Wars is iconic. For the most part the "sequels are bigger and make more" belief is a rather new phenomenon.

Superman The Movie is a better film, there is no doubt about it. But honestly outside of a few scenes (helicopter save, phone booth) Superman 2 is way more memorable. It had the better villains and the more compelling story overall for an action film. That is why, as I said before, Superman 2 was on probably 3 times a month for the first 15 years of my life and is easily the CBM I have seen the most...and I saw TDK in the theater 8 times. Superman 2 took the cultural phenomenon of Superman: TM and used it to become a cultural icon.

TLDR: Today it might not be, but for about 20 years Superman 2 was considered greatness.

I was born in 92 and growing up Superman 2 was still seen as one of the few good superhero films.

 

[DCDAVE]

That may be the case now, but it was definitely not the case then. Superman 2 was nothing like MOS when it came to reception or how it hit with the audience. MOS had almost zero cultural impact (outside the shield) and the rewatchablity factor for the GA was almost zilch. Even Superman fans were divided on it and it has not aged well because of what came after it.

For a long time Superman 2 was the gold standard of the CBM sequel and often sequels in general for blockbusters. When Spiderman 2 or X-Men 2 or even Batman Returns came out the phrase you often heard was "This is going to be their Superman 2" because Superman 2 was the template and the goal. More drama, more villains, more action...etc. (I mean come on Spidey loses his friggin powers in #2) To this day Superman 2 is still quoted (kneel before Zod!) and Zod is one of the more widely known villains in the Superman Universe and an expected foe. (Terrance Stamp was just the best!) I doubt Zod was known by most Superman fans prior to it.

And remember back in the day sequels often didnt make more than the original even if they were beloved. Godfather 2 made less than Godfather. (and plenty of people love the Godfather 2 as much or more including many critics) Empire made less than A New Hope and well...yeah its the better film even though Star Wars is iconic. For the most part the "sequels are bigger and make more" belief is a rather new phenomenon.

Superman The Movie is a better film, there is no doubt about it. But honestly outside of a few scenes (helicopter save, phone booth) Superman 2 is way more memorable. It had the better villains and the more compelling story overall for an action film. That is why, as I said before, Superman 2 was on probably 3 times a month for the first 15 years of my life and is easily the CBM I have seen the most...and I saw TDK in the theater 8 times. Superman 2 took the cultural phenomenon of Superman: TM and used it to become a cultural icon.

TLDR: Today it might not be, but for about 20 years Superman 2 was considered greatness.

Superman the movie was the cultural changer. I still remember the “You won’t believe a man can fly” tag line. Good times as a child with that and Star Wars.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

"You will believe a man can fly"

 

[DCDAVE]

"You will believe a man can fly"

Hey I was 8 years old.

 

[flickchick85]

I was not alive during the release of either of these movies, but just based on the box office numbers, it seems clear to me that Superman II was very well-received, just not quite as well-received as the original. That didn’t stop it from being held up as a shining example of what superhero sequels should be, though, as that’s certainly how it was talked about when I was growing up.

I don’t agree with it, personally, but that’s just what its reputation has been.

 

[dhandler01]

It would have been interesting to see what Donners Cut would have done...but I doubt it makes as much as the first one.

 

[Superchan]

I'll weigh in on this and I'll try to be brief. Box office numbers are generally oversimplified by cinophiles; it isn't as simple as 'movie A is better than movie B therefore it makes more at the B.O.' but rather multiple factors like the strength of the brand, the aforementioned quality/public response, marketing and....... the often forgotten factor: competition!
Superman II was huge for it's time, the movie broke the opening weekend boxoffice record at that time and finished as one of the highest grossing film of that year behind.............Raiders of the lost arc! Yup that Raiders and what people don't know is that Raiders came out 2 weeks after Superman during a very summer period (hell of a competition) essentially cutting off it's legs, while Superman the movie came out in 1978 Christmas and had months and months of B.O. all to it's self (it stayed 11 weeks as no.1, which is something that cannot be done nowadays).
Needless to say Superman at that time was one of the biggest franchises in the world and the 4th most recognizable brand in the world just behind, Coke, McDonalds and Mickey Mouse (according to a global marketing study done in the 80s). The Superman movie brand has sadly fallen on hard times but the character remains iconic and profitable despite all of it and I pray that Gunn's Superman brings this powerful character back on that locomotive tract because the world could sure use abit of hope and cheering up nowadays.

 

[Mysteryman]

Superman II had its moments. Who can forget Clark after getting his butt kicked by the trucker, going back to the ruins of the fortress then begging his father to give him his powers. Then when it looked like all else was failing then green light of a crystal comes on. Then when it looks like all is lost Supes flies into Metropolis and calls out Zod. I jumped out of my seat and knocked over someone’s popcorn. I had never been so geeked as an 8 year old. Lex said Superman thank God.

GOOD TIMES!

 

[DCDAVE]

GOOD TIMES!

I am at home watching Superman the Movie. It appears after watching the trailer again, Gunn and David have updated Clark for 2025. I can’t get over that dorky walk in the trailer. Brilliant move by them with the new interpretation of Superman’s disguise.

 

[Mysteryman]

I am at home watching Superman the Movie. It appears after watching the trailer again, Gunn and David have updated Clark for 2025. I can’t get over that dorky walk in the trailer. Brilliant move by them with the new interpretation of Superman’s disguise.

When I see David as, Clark, I see, Physicality similar to that of Christopher Reeves Clark.

 

[DCDAVE]

When I see David as, Clark, I see, Physicality similar to that of Christopher Reeves Clark.

Lots of things in the Superman movie you can’t do today. Superman saves a cat from a tree and the little girl gets slapped by her mom for lying. The military captain (Larry Hagman-JR Ewing) appears to sexually assault Ms. Teschmacher. A different era to say the least. It all happens off screen.

 

[Mysteryman]

Lots of things in the Superman movie you can’t do today. Superman saves a cat from a tree and the little girl gets slapped by her mom for lying. The military captain (Larry Hagman-JR Ewing) appears to sexually assault Ms. Teschmacher. A different era to say the least. It all happens off screen.

Today, it would be seen as sexual assault.
But, Donner & Co, were leaning into the camp.

 

[DCDAVE]

Today, it would be seen as sexual assault.
But, Donner & Co, were leaning into the camp.

Very campy to say the least but Lex, Perry, Otis, Jimmy, and Ms. Teschmakee was great to see. I miss Mr. Gene Hackman on the big screen.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

 

[Mysteryman]

View attachment 122538

That’s the ticket! Was that the last trailer before the movie started?

 

[Karelia]

I hope it truly is "The Summer of Superman"

Time to reign in the Marvel-exclusive fanboys lol. I've known a lot of them over the years who flat out refuse to watch DC movies.

 

[Babillygunn]

The military captain (Larry Hagman-JR Ewing) appears to sexually assault Ms. Teschmacher.

Rewatching that with my wife a few years ago, that was pretty disturbing. And it is more disturbing that it was funny and normalized back then.

And it is jarring to see little Clark stand up out of the ship completely nude.

 

[elizaD]

St Valentine
Will they show some (small) promo romance focused???