The Dark Knight Trilogy, What Went Right

[ManWithNoName18]

Christopher Nolan, Jonathon Nolan, and David Goyer where behind one of IMO the greatest trilogies of all time. Fans loved the trilogy, GA, loved the trilogy, and critics loved it. Even the Dark Knight Rises the lowest of the trilogy holds an 87% on rotten tomatoes.

My question is what went right? Was this trilogy lightning in the bottle or can it be replicated. And what does the DCEU really need to learn from it?

 

[metaphysician]

Get good writers and directors? The Nolan Batman films are distinctively Nolan, while the Snyder movies are distinctly Snyder. The problem is, one of those things is good, and one of them isn't.

 

[Boom]

Christopher Nolan is a strong filmmaker and a competent storyteller.

 

[Victarion]

Each movie stands alone, yet you can also look at it as one long story. Its a fine deconstruction of the superhero - Bruce gets a nasty taste of what happens when you start ****ing around with people that mean business in the form of the Joker. Bane and Talia gave him a look at what he could become if he didn't abandon his hero fantasy for life in the real world. To top it off, the ending was one you really felt the hero earned.

In a CU where you're letting the directors have free reign with their movies, you'd ideally get this. The disconnect is either in the approach or in the directors. I haven't seen skwad yet - gonna hit the IMAX showing next weekend - but Snyder put together a pretty balsy entry point in Dawn of Justice despite a few lines of sketchy dialogue here and there. Snyder's piece was great, but it may be that WB had a kneejerk reaction to criticisms and ended up paring down Ayer's movie, or maybe played it too safe in some spots. Its all conjecture since I haven't seen SS.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Goyer was only involved in writing Begins. In TDK and TDKR he only gets story credit. He also said something to the effect of, I'm paraphrasing here, being astonished he was involved in something as good as TDK.

 

[Quasimod0]

The stories are well told, well-written, the characters are at least interesting. The 3rd acts keep you on the edge of your seat as well.

 

[NotNickFury]

They were good movies first, and good superhero movies second. The Dark Knight feels more like a crime drama and its main character just happens to dress up like a bat.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Better storytelling than the Snyderverse. More focus on character and less on big action sequences. Less is more and I feel a lot of the big budget blockbuster movies now are missing this.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I'm not the biggest fan of the trilogy, 2 of its movies are extremely overrated and BB especially is mediocre at best. HOWEVER what went right with those movies is that Nolan had stories that he wanted to tell and he commited himself to tell those stories in the way he wanted. Did he completely succeed? No, but he had a genuine interest in the characters and universe and a clear vision of what he wanted to do and that's why people responded to them.

The priorities of the people making movies for the DCEU are more focused on the money and the competition between their company and Marvel. Their cynical approach and pandering are too blantant so its easy for everyone to realize that they are trying to make PRODUCTS not movies.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

They were good movies first, and good superhero movies second. The Dark Knight feels more like a crime drama and its main character just happens to dress up like a bat.

I feel, sad as it sounds, that Marvel actually learnt far more from those movies than WB did.

It's pretty easy to see it consistently across most of the movies that get more acclaim -
Guardians was a sci-fi about family (that happened to have Superheroes in it),
Antman was a heist (that happened to have Superheroes in it),
WinterSoldier was a political thriller (that happened to have Superheroes in it)

Thor2 was about.... Thor fighting bad guys... which is why its probably regarded as one of the weakest of Marvels movies.

 

[NotNickFury]

I feel, sad as it sounds, that Marvel actually learnt far more from those movies than WB did.

It's pretty easy to see it consistently across most of the movies that get more acclaim -
Guardians was a sci-fi about family (that happened to have Superheroes in it),
Antman was a heist (that happened to have Superheroes in it),
WinterSoldier was a political thriller (that happened to have Superheroes in it)

Thor2 was about.... Thor fighting bad guys... which is why its probably regarded as one of the weakest of Marvels movies.

Exactly. Heck, even though a lot of people don't like it as much as other films in the universe, though I like it a lot myself, I'd maybe even put The Incredible Hulk on there too since it's about redemption. So was Iron Man, though I mention Hulk since we spend more time with Banner than we do with the Hulk.

 

[The Chris]

-The grand focus on scope mixed in with a personal sense of character
-A genuine respect for the characters, especially Bruce/Batman himself, who is the most relatable and easiest version of the character to root for on film
-A fantastic use of villains in my opinion. Use of multiple villains like in other films like Spidey 3 and the Batman anthology sequels, yet it comes across so naturally and there is a true focus on only one of the villians in each.
-A fantastic use of real world feelings in this superhero story. TDK really felt like a post 9/11 world, and I loved the occupy wall street/99% vs 1% world of TDKR.
-It all felt so real, it was easy to be sucked in to the world because it felt like Batman was defending us. It felt like Ra's Al Ghul, Joker and Bane were trying to destroy us.
-Great acting from almost everyone in the films.
-Beautiful storytelling, subtext and ballsy decisions. (Joker winning in TDK and killing the woman he loved, Bruce wanting to die in TDKR and having to regain the will to live and find worth as Bruce Wayne, giving Batman an actual ending, and with Selina of all people)
-It was a superhero trilogy that was written, directed and acted more like a prestige type film, which is why a superhero movie in my opinion will never get closer to best picture than The Dark Knight.
-Lastly It just came at a perfect time where Batman truly needed it, and so did the genre itself.

 

[Boy Scout]

Great director, good stories, great casting. Nolan was given room to breathe and was not subject to (too much) studio interference or pressured to have his stories compromised, scaled back, or altered to meet the demands of a shared universe.

I think WB knows what they need to do to make another TDK, but they seem to be either too scared or too impatient (or both) to really make it happen. I never believed it before, but I'm starting to come around to the idea that they're being too reactionary.

 

[NotNickFury]

Great director, good stories, great casting. Nolan was given room to breathe and was not subject to (too much) studio interference or pressured to have his stories compromised, scaled back, or altered to meet the demands of a shared universe.

I think WB knows what they need to do to make another TDK, but they seem to be either too scared or too impatient (or both) to really make it happen. I never believed it before, but I'm starting to come around to the idea that they're being too reactionary.

On that, here's hoping that Affleck's solo Batman film, should we get there, has as little studio interference as possible, since I do think he's proven himself a great director. And if Gone Girl is any indication, he can play a tortured soul.

 

[Boy Scout]

I think David Ayer has proven himself to be a pretty decent director at least, and we're seeing what's happening with SS. That's not to say that it's a bad movie, (I haven't seen it, but I will) or that the score can't improve (it might), or that the critics or wrong (they might be), but the problem seems to be that there is something or someone in the studio that is making it hard for even talented filmmakers to make a well-received film.

But it's possible that I'm just talking out of my ass based on limited information and conjecture. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

[BatLobster]

-The grand focus on scope mixed in with a personal sense of character
-A genuine respect for the characters, especially Bruce/Batman himself, who is the most relatable and easiest version of the character to root for on film
-A fantastic use of villains in my opinion. Use of multiple villains like in other films like Spidey 3 and the Batman anthology sequels, yet it comes across so naturally and there is a true focus on only one of the villians in each.
-A fantastic use of real world feelings in this superhero story. TDK really felt like a post 9/11 world, and I loved the occupy wall street/99% vs 1% world of TDKR.
-It all felt so real, it was easy to be sucked in to the world because it felt like Batman was defending us. It felt like Ra's Al Ghul, Joker and Bane were trying to destroy us.
-Great acting from almost everyone in the films.
-Beautiful storytelling, subtext and ballsy decisions. (Joker winning in TDK and killing the woman he loved, Bruce wanting to die in TDKR and having to regain the will to live and find worth as Bruce Wayne, giving Batman an actual ending, and with Selina of all people)
-It was a superhero trilogy that was written, directed and acted more like a prestige type film, which is why a superhero movie in my opinion will never get closer to best picture than The Dark Knight.
-Lastly It just came at a perfect time where Batman truly needed it, and so did the genre itself.

Great post, agree with every single one of those points completely.

Your past point is something that I was going to say too. It was a fresh approach for the genre. I think Nolan was a step ahead of what audiences were craving, and showed us what we all wanted to see without us knowing it was what we wanted to see. This goes a long way in adding the "wow" factor. Audiences can tell when you're intentionally trying to cater to them by jumping on the whatever the latest craze is.

When Batman Begins came out, it was in stark contrast to the other superhero movies of its time. Even the X-Men films IMO, because even though those were more serious, they were also very clearly comic book fantasy by their very nature.

Nolan tried to embrace the superhero genre like a real film genre and played it as straight as you possibly could. This proved to be an approach that audiences found very engrossing. I'd also add the emphasis on practical effects here too, because while I think that kind of stuff makes film geeks like us go "yay practical!", it has a very real, visceral affect on the general audience too that probably contributes to them feeling more immersed in the reality of the world being presented.

 

[Boom]

Frankly I'm due to watch all three of these films again. It's been a while.

 

[Abudefduf]

Ok but what about the fact that TDKR is teh worst movie evah.

 

[The Joker]

Nolan knows how to tell a great story, how to do good likeable characterizations, great villains, he respects the source material, and he backs it all up with strong casts of actors.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Frankly I'm due to watch all three of these films again. It's been a while.

In my recent rewatch I came away liking TDKR the most. Not that I think it's the best of the trilogy mind you. But I enjoyed it.

 

[Victarion]

The first act is what did it for me with TDKR. That and the third one. It felt like it moved at a quicker clip than its predecessors.

For me its BB/TDK that usually change spots in my ranking of Nolan's trilogy.

 

[Greens]

That's funny because TDKR drags, IMO. It's not a bad movie, but I undoubtedly find it to be the weakest Nolan outing.

 

[Slade W]

TDKR's quality drops after the first Batman and Bane fight IMO.

 

[Victarion]

For me its the prison doctor not incidentally giving Bruce sepsis from using dirty medical equipment. I didn't get the impression that they'd been really keeping his medical gear all that clean. If Nolan wanted to kill off Bruce like some thought, that would've been the way to do it.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Sounds like something the current DC regime would do.