The Dark Knight vs Captain America: Civil War

Discussion in 'Misc. Comics Films' started by The Batman, Sep 3, 2016.

?

Better Film?

  1. The Dark Knight

  2. Captain America: Civil War

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Doctor Jones shocked and baffled

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    TDK is on another level that none of the Marvel films have reached and probably never will. The Russos are great filmmakers, but they're nowhere near Nolan. CW is one of their strongest movies, but personally it's a bit of a drag for me. In a perfect world, AOU and CW should have been combined with Ultron being the movie that broke The Avengers. It doesn't help the ending is ruined by a joke. Marvel's success is what also can hold them back at times from achieving something truly amazing.

    Marvel is like the whiz kid who you know is a lot smarter than he puts into his work. Instead of getting 100's, he gets mostly 88%'s with the occasional grade in the 90's but never makes that 100.

    Marvel is very filmmaker friendly, they get inspired talent, and they trust in their source material, and is run by a man who is passionate and knowledgeable. This all equals to a consistent output. But the problem with some of these is that they don't get filmmakers on a Nolan level (Doctor Strange 2 has the potential to be the best MCU film for Raimi alone, he is the best director they ever got) or a Fincher or Villenueve or a Mendes, filmmakers really at the top of their craft because they're too singular for Marvel's cinematic universe which in and of itself can be restrictive. There's trade offs to Marvel's success. I don't know or think they'd be here if it wasn't for their formula, but I can't help but feel if they were more individual and focused less on the long game, they would have had more interesting movies for better or for worse. I might rather take those than most of the MCU films that while still good and none are disasters, can be very same-ish and disposable. Yet they have made history, something that's for the books as much as any great filmmaker. It's less of a film and more of an endeavor as the MCU. How you value that your mileage may vary.
     
  2. Mjolnir Reborn Blunt Instrument

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    Your whiz kid example reminds me perfectly of Nolan when he did his Batman films, as I think they came off much sloppier than his other works. Scripts with holes and things that make no sense in the setting/tone, weak fights with some significant mistakes left in, etc, were not what I expected from Nolan at the time, even though other aspects were very good (he's certainly still professional and talented). To me they feel like they were the road to get to make the films he really wanted to make.
     
    #152 Mjolnir Reborn, Oct 12, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
    Adhesive Boy likes this.
  3. Neil McCauley Registered

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    I disagree that TDK is pretentious, or have stock dialogues/archetypes and other unfair criticism. The characters got a perfect layed foundation and were explained between the movie and Begins, and we got some contrast/want about justice and chaos in the movie. I think that stuff like cops acting in that way or taking a route is fair, and as long as we have an explanation or it's logical, it doesn't ruin a movie or a story.

    Bale's Batman was of course likeable, and most MCU villains don't seem or par with Two-Face, let alone The Joker to be honest. The plot works because it's proactive mostly about Gotham's state and the dualism of many characters. Exactly like TDKR works.

    The characters are well written and we got 2 characters arcs, plus the acting is great not only for 1 phenomenal performance but there are others which are great. There's no need to downplay either TDK or CW here, it's all subjective, right?

    I think that the "deep message" would be about security, and morality. Joker's reasoning is perfectly plausible from a psychopath, I mean did Hannibal Lecter have a great reason to be evil in SOTL? His death for sure didn't "carry" the film, considering Nolan just did Prestige and then Inception without him, it helped his legacy yeah a bit honestly but he was still great in the film.

    About the action, the main focus of TDK is not the action and it got a few great scenes like the swat team, chase scene and garage scene. Solid action.

    Holes? Ok, there is some luck and suspension of belief about Joker's plan (and so there is about Zemo) mostly over his escape and the bombs but people need to think that Joker made small plans, and did not expect things to go the way they did, he only wanted to destroy the spirit of Gotham and create chaos at start, and then to corrupt either Harvey or Batman. Nothing more.

    He would have been ok if Harvey died or if Rachel died, the bombs going off in that way is just him timing it well the same way Zemo times Cap and Tony coming to him. I use the same parameters to judge the plot.

    There is no plot hole in The Dark Knight, especially given in-universe corruption, logic and off-screen stuff being explained or over the worlds greatest detective and a genius psychopath.

    That being said, I think that Memento and Batman Begins might be better written than TDK, but the latter is better in everything else. I mean, that's how you gotta write a movie about this, and not about a physical menace or only about the main character.

    CW is well written and enterteining and a top 4 CBM, but I think TDK is the better film overall. And so is Inception and Begins honestly.
     
    Awest66 likes this.
  4. MarvelFan ◢⁴⁶

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    Civil War.

    Personally CW is only second behind Endgame as the best MCU film.
    I always can emotionally attach to this film more than others.

    While Dark Knight is not bad, but in terms of comic book feel, I always pick Civil War. Like Chris Evans says in interview, Civil War is not just a superhero movie, it is a human drama. I agree with him.
     
  5. Neil McCauley Registered

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    How would you rate both films out of 10?
     
  6. MarvelFan ◢⁴⁶

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    Civil War 10
    The Dark Knight 9
     
  7. Neil McCauley Registered

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    Fair enough, I would swap them but I can understand where you are coming from
     
  8. MarvelFan ◢⁴⁶

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    Thank you :)

    It is just my personal reference matter. Because as you can see on my name, I am more a House of Ideas fan than a Detective Comics fan, hehe. (Though recently I started reading some of DC titles, hehe)

    But I can truly understand why The Dark Knight still considered as the best ever by many fans. I think it is a truly mastercraft filmmaking by Director Christopher Nolan. But as a personal reference, Civil War still resonates to me more. In terms of drama and comic book feels in it.
     
  9. Neil McCauley Registered

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    No problem about that, i also love CW and can see why someone would pick it over TDK, even if i believe TDK is much better overall (1st vs 4th favorite CBM).

    CW feels like a comic-book film and it's dark/funny at the same time, i love the 3rd act and T Challa's revenge arc and Spidey's fun introduction. Get a solid 9 or 9.5 for me, just a bit below TWS and BB
     
  10. Babillygunn New Age Outlaw

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    I really despise Civil War. Almost as much as all these vs threads. :cwink:
     
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  11. Fosterson Registered

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    While CW's score is not my favourite, I still think it has some great parts to it, especially during Tony's suit-up on the chopper and during the final fight.

    Tell me this isn't awesome:

     
    Neil McCauley and Batmannerism like this.
  12. Neil McCauley Registered

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    I really love CW, I really do. it's in my top 4 CBM list but yeah TDK is much better. Better in every single way except the action.

    Third acts might be comparable and both villains plan are fine for me (and the only questionable stuff of the entire movie).

    I rewatch TDKR more than TDK for some reason lol.
     
    Awest66 likes this.

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