The Emily Bett Rickards/ Felicity Smoak Thread

Discussion in 'Arrow' started by Dark Raven, May 8, 2013.

  1. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Eh, that's *really* being unfair. If she had done nothing, millions would have died. Should she just have written off Monument Point?

    The problem isn't her failing to save everyone with the effortless grace of gods ( which I'm pretty sure would get complained about here even more loudly ), its that the writers aren't giving the due weight to a successful nuclear attack. Felicity should be evincing more guilt and doubt, about whether she did enough or could have done something different; and *everyone* should generally be acting with a greater degree of "this is serious ****, we need to keep it together".
     
  2. Dugath Registered

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    She could have put in coordinates to take the missile to an ocean or some other remote location.

    Also not being a nuclear missile expert I think the warhead only becomes active when it gets close to the target?? if so she could ave told it to go someplace and if it ran out of fuel...

    BTW where was any anti missile defense on the U.S part ?
     
  3. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    She tried. The whole point of the sequence from launch on was her trying everything she could to get the missiles to shut down or divert, and nothing working ( because they were designed to prevent that ). Spoofing the GPS constellation was her last ditch effort, and. . . okay, they don't explicitly say this. However, they both say that her initial prank involved shifting all GPS signals 10 miles to the west, and show that her code attack diverts the missile 10 miles to the west. This is almost certainly meant to be taken as "Felicity uses the same trick she did before, exactly as it was", either because she didn't have time to recode it or else the vulnerability couldn't be reworked.

    Setting aside the issue of "nothing in this episode was realistic", that would require being able to tell the missiles to change target. She *tried* to do that; it wasn't working.

    Well, in real life, I'm iffy on whether any systems are really operational yet, at least against a full-on ICBM. Remember, for the vast majority of the cold war, the US had zero ABM capacity. This means nothing for the Arrowverse, natch.
     
  4. Syncos ROFLICIOUS

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    She may not have won you over. But luckily you don't speak for all of the fans. I used to hate Laurel more than any other character. The first two seasons she was terribly written. Then she became the best character on the show over the course of a season and a half. She seemed to be the only level headed, rational character.

    I don't really ship anything. I couldn't care less who Oliver is with. I will however say, that his relationship drama being the center of the show has always been the weakest point. It was bad in season one, when it was him keeping secrets from Laurel, and it's bad in season 4 when Felicity is being insane and irrational.

    Felicity was at her best in season 1-2. She was sharply written, strong, independent and fun. They turned her into a whining inconsistent mess in seasons 3 and 4.

    Laurel had the opposite path. She started out as a mess, then got worse in season 2. Then she had a sharp upward path. Her character gained meaning, and purpose. She started acting like the level head of the bunch, and a good confidant for Oliver.

    ... What a waste, on both sides.
     
  5. Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    Perhaps I am mistaken, but I do not remember people praising Laurel that much on here in season 3 or early on this season. People certainly complained about her much less than they did in season 2 though. It was only really when rumours about her dying emerged that I noticed people praising her. I say this as a fan of Laurel, who this season and last season, felt that i had to argue with a lot of people why she was a good character and why her reactions to things were understandable. I would also say that Laurel was a good character in season 1 and 2 as well, and that while I did not agree with everything that she did, I found most of her actions and reactions to be understandable in those seasons.
     
    #830 Slade W, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  6. SpideyVille Walking out the Desert

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    I said at the end of last season that I was only looking forward to seeing Laurel and Speedy this season. My only complaint early this season was that the Sara arc sort of regressed all of the progress that her character made in the second half of last season. I've been a big fan of hers since she first suited up, though I will admit, there were still plenty of people that criticized her, mostly because she wasn't shown to have any training and it just came across to look like she went to the gym a couple of times and was suddenly a badass.
     
  7. Jedi Arrow Vigilant Knight

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    I went back to the early pages of this thread and ended up laughing a lot because people here who I've seen bashing on Felicity really hard were practically fawning over her and some said "She should be with Oliver instead of Laurel; Laurel's terrible!" etc. etc.

    Oh, little did we know...
     
  8. Batsfan1 Registered

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    She had self defense training before the show started. Have a very great day you and everyone!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!
     
  9. SpideyVille Walking out the Desert

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    Oh I definitely know. It's the first thing I point at when people say she was nothing but a damsel in distress. Clearly, when the show first started, they had different plans for her. But somewhere between season 1 and season 2, something changed and they decided to bring in Sara and Felicity as her replacements.
     
  10. SpideyVille Walking out the Desert

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    Never once did I think Oliver being with Felicity made any sense. I could totally see her having feelings for him, but I expected him to leave her because he would just hurt her because he couldn't stop being the man he was on the island. I never thought they would write him in a way that made him lose his balls and let her walk all over him.
     
  11. vantheman77 Superman Fan 4 Life

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    Let me know when they bring back Firestorm Ronnie Raymond and that Felicity is his stepmother.
     
  12. ARBH I Like Turtles!

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    Laurel suffered from what I refer to as the Egon effect. If you go and watch the animated series "The Real Ghostbusters" you will to notice how the writers started making the character of Egon a guinea pig for unfathomable circumstances. I think "Egon's Ghost" episode in season two is where the practice of trying to make him the embodiment of Murphy's Law.

    Laurel was a victim of infidelity, the "death" of Oliver (x2), the "death" of her sister (x2), she became an alcoholic/drug addict...

    She was not an enjoyable character to watch, and it almost felt like the writers were forcing her constant tragedies down our throats. Then IN MY OPNION... after they abandoned her constant barrage of tragedies, and started giving her a definitive path as both a hero and incorruptible force for good, that is when she started to shine and when the character of Laurel became more likeable. Her quips and moments of levity, especially when teaming with Speedy was a breath of fresh air. She became an actual well adjusted character. And when that happened, the writers pushed the character of the Black Canary into the background. It's not her show, I get that. But if you are going to shove the flaws down our throat, at least reward those of us with something rather triumphant. Not the character being written off by being stabbed a single time with an arrow, only to survive and be given a positive prognosis, and then you know, slap us with the Egon effect one last time.
     
  13. Syncos ROFLICIOUS

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    Not to talk about Laurel too much in Emily's thread (as it's kinda off topic) but I 100% agree with these sentiments.
     
  14. Fincher Coming Undone

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    I don't know if I'd call her a mass murderer, but I don't think it's justified to kill 10,000 innocent people to save a separate 1,000,000 people. And if the show did have that sort of "ends justify the means" mentality, would there be this much hand-wringing over Oliver killing criminals?
     
  15. SpideyVille Walking out the Desert

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    I don't mind the "killing some to save a bunch" aspect, especially if that's the only option. What I have a problem with is killing some and not caring about it. Diggle killed his brother and couldn't recover in the next few episodes, but Felicity killed 10,000 and was perfectly fine in the next episode.
     
  16. Fincher Coming Undone

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    In Season 1, it didn't bother me that Oliver was a homicidal vigilante, so it's not that I'm bothered that Felicity did a horrible thing in the heat of the moment. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be fair to scrutinize every hard decision Oliver has to make and then shrug off Felicity doing the darkest thing anyone on Team Arrow has ever done just because it was for the greater good. They put Damian Darhk in jail and seemingly destroy the source of his magic. He gets out, gets his magic back, kills thousands of people and nearly destroys the world. He was too dangerous for Oliver not to kill him, but it's killing him "in cold blood" and reflects a schism in him between light and dark.

    Okay, fair enough, Oliver's no angel, but the show acts like Felicity is an angel when she's just as flawed as the others. What about her inner darkness? She killed 10,000 innocent people. Maybe it's easier to shrug it off when it's just a number and she's just typing away at a keyboard, but say everyone from Havenrock was standing right there, children included, and someone handed her a gun and said, "You shoot all these people in the head, and a million other people will be saved." Then we get a montage of her walking down the line, killing them one by one. Is that not enormously dark?
     
    #841 Fincher, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  17. TheVileOne Registered

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    Wasn't the ending of the first season a major loss for Oliver because so many people died?

    Didn't Malcom essentially want to kill all the people living in the slums because he viewed them as less than human?
     
  18. Fincher Coming Undone

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    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Malcolm is a villain, and Oliver failed to save those people rather than choosing to kill them, so if this is directed at what I said, I don't see the connection.
     
  19. Syncos ROFLICIOUS

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    Not to split hairs, but it wasn't 10,000. It was 10s of thousands. Which could be anywhere from 20,000-90,000. As long as it's under 100,000. You're right. that should eat a person up.
     
  20. regnak Registered

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    It is just the latest and greatest example of them trying to make Felicity perfect and backfiring in epic fashion.



     
  21. SpideyVille Walking out the Desert

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    I liked the ending of the first season, because it showed that Oliver wasn't a pro. He stopped Merlyn, but he was still outsmarted. and people lost their lives for it.

    Making his disappearance more about Tommy's death than anything else was an interesting choice, but that lead to his decision to stop killing, and trying to win the cops over, so it's forgivable.

    And I think Merlyn's bigger motivation was that his wife was killed in the slums, so he wanted to destroy her hospital or something, and the area around it because he was trying to clean a bad memory. Then of course, you can also look into the season2/3 reveal of destroying the city as the League of Assassin's goal, a la Batman Begins.

    In regards to the first bolded part, I can chalk that up to crappy writing. I won't forgive them for it, but I can understand that inexperienced or just outright lazy writing is the cause for this, especially considering that there didn't seem to be an end goal or plan in mind when thy started the season.
    But then again, this is a common problem with comics, where you'll see Joker get caught by Batman, put in jail, only for him to escape and kill and the cycle repeats.

    As for the second part, that's my biggest issue. Felicity kills thousands? Okay. Felicity questions herself and her choices? Fantastic, great character development. But do they do that? No! Instead, they have Felicity lie to Oliver for moinths during their Honeymoon phase, drawing him back to a life he wanted to leave behind, and all is forgiven with a kiss. Yet on two separate occasions, on two separate timelines, Felicity finds out about William and flips the **** out, and the show paints her as the reasonable one. Everyone tells Oliver to just give her some time, but not once does anyone approach her and say, "Hey, maybe you're being a little harsh." Not once does anyone call her out for being immature with snarky side comments like a crazy ex-wife. Not once does anyone call her out on anything, with the exception of Ray last season, who got offended when she mentioned his wife. That is the main problem with the show. They're forcing us to like a character we already loved and to feel sympathy for her, but they're giving us no reason to do either, and its only making us resent her even more.
    It just really bothers me how the very next episode, she's laughing it up about OG Team Arrow, as if Thea and Lance leaving is a good thing. Sure, maybe she's trying to be optimistic, but where was that attitude during the rest of the season when everyone needed it. Something goes wrong with Oliver, and she's the first one saying the team is dead and leaves.
     
  22. Batsfan1 Registered

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    The problem with this now, is that because they didn't deal with it right away, it'll make it even harder for it to be dealt with believably if they try to next season. I got into a discussion with a Felicity fan where the person was basically saying that it didn't need to be dealt with at the moment and blew off that her character was happy and smiling after she had facilitated getting 10's of 1,000's of people killed as me grasping at straws. It's vital character stuff. Felicity can't do that and be fully happy in the next 2 episodes, unless the show is saying that Felicity is pretty much a sociopath. There's no sense in her being that way otherwise. Have a very great day you and everyone!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!
     
  23. SpideyVille Walking out the Desert

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    I wouldn't be opposed to this if she had a moment much like Thea, where once everything was done, she reflected and said, "You know what, this is all too much for me, I need some time away to think about things.

    They didn't necessarily need to address it immediately in the episodes, because from my understanding, the last few took place on the same day, so I can totally see them saying that it was a horrible experience, but they needed to stay focused until they defeated Dhark.

    But they did neither, and it's highly doubtful that it will ever be brought up again next season, which just goes to show how twisted the writers and Guggenheim are in their adoration of this one character.
     
  24. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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  25. Jedi Arrow Vigilant Knight

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    At least EBR sees the problem with that as clearly as the rest of us.
     

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