The END of FANTASTIC FOUR!!!

[antariksh]

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/001986146.cfm

Is MARVEL doing the right thing?

Let the fanboy war begin.

 

[joke]

It's not like they are going to kill the team once and for all (or whatever's left after CW). It's just a book about their last days like Wolverine's and Hulk's The End series, not to mention the whole of Marvel's, where, if I remember correctly, ironically, the universe didn't end. And who can forget X-Men - The End, the miniseries that didn't want to end.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'll post the preview. Looks like guilt free fun. Oh and Franklin is lookin' bad ass.

 

[Franklin Richards]

 

[Franklin Richards]

 

[gerbstat]

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/001986146.cfm

Is MARVEL doing the right thing?

Let the fanboy war begin.

I don't see what the big deal is. There've been other stories about the end of the FF, in particular the Earth X series where Johnny and Sue are killed by Submariner and Doom, and Franklin makes Subby burn like a tiki torch..

Interesting stories, but they never seem to be part of continuity.

 

[Malus]

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/001986146.cfm

Is MARVEL doing the right thing?

Let the fanboy war begin.

It's just a freakin' "What If" story.
Marvel already blatantly lies about killing characters in "real" continuity, as in this past May's "Death In The Family." I couldn't possibly care less what they do to these characters now. Because it's not really the FF any more.
It's just product now.
My beloved Fantastic Four have been dead for many years.
Every now and then a gifted writer will come along and briefly reainimate their four-color corpses, but the freshness, the vitality, the seminal Lee/kirby energy, the REAL FF has been dead and buried for over three decades.

And that's coming from a man who's been an FF fan since 1969.
Even named my son Benjamin Kirby.
I love the FF and always will.
But they're already dead.

Just my opinion.
Have a nice day, all.

 

[TripleF]

Well I can say this about Antzy, he's consistent.

 

[Malus]

Well I can say this about Antzy, he's consistent.

No kidding. "Let the fanboy war in my head begin" is more like it.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Come on, Grandpa. Back in your cage.

I've got a fig newton for you.

 

[Malus]

Come on, Grandpa. Back in your cage.

I've got a fig newton for you.

You talkin' to me, Frankie?
'Cause you just handed me the Mother of all straight lines.
And yet I am merciful. Go figure.

 

[Ravin' Ray]

So Malus, who'se runs did you enjoy best? Byrne? deFalco?

 

[KingOfDreams]

Every now and then a gifted writer will come along and briefly reainimate their four-color corpses

Mark Waid

 

[KingOfDreams]

Anyhoo, this mini looks freakin' awesome.

 

[Malus]

So Malus, whose runs did you enjoy best? Byrne? deFalco?

Okay...

Firstly, I don't have much nice to say about Tom DeFealco's run. He "killed" Reed & Doom and kept that lame sham going for over two years. He "aged" Franklin into "Psi-Lord" and then there was retconning Johnny & Alicia's marriage by having her turn out to be a Skrull. God forbid we get some actual character development that sticks. DeFalco crafted some fairly memorable stories, and I liked his scripting okay, but I've always found him greatly overrated and his FF run pretty forgettable.

My favorite post-Lee&Kirby issues are #112-149, the first dozen of which were written by Stan before he handed things over to Roy Thomas. This is partly because I started reading the FF with #112 when I was 6 and have great fondness for that era, but I think most of this period holds up with re-reading, especially the "second coming" of Galactus in #120-123.(Remember the Air Walker, Gabriel? That story was my first exposure to the Surfer & Galactus, and I think Lee & Buscema did a fine job.) I'm also partial to the very lengthy and very well-written "Reed-and-Sue-almost-divorce" storyline that began in #129 and culminated in their reunion in #149. This was also the period that saw Johnny lose Crystal to that freakin' pansy, Quicksilver (Stupid Crystal) and we saw Medusa take Sue's place in the FF from #132 all the way to #159.
You know, Reed & Sue's marital crisis was pretty heavy stuff for a 10 year old to absorb back then. To be honest, I didn't really know anything about divorce up until then. (Now everybody's doin' it. ) This was also the period where Reed was forced to shut down little Franklin's mind before his powers consumed the solar system. Sheesh! Roy Thomas (and Gerry Conway) really put the characters through some tough times, and the writing and art (Buscema, then Rich Buckler) were both solid throughout.

Since that brief period in the early 70's, only John Byrne has breathed real life into the FF to my satisfaction, and I think much of his run is (gasp!) severely over-rated. I love the first 30 issues or so that he did (about as much as I love most of the Lee/Kirby run) but for me Byrne started to go off the rails when he wrote Ben out of the book and when he stopped inking his own artwork. I just never cared for Jerry Ordway's inks on Byrne. (To qualify that: I love Ordway's art, but disliked his inking on Byrne's work.) And I will always resent Byrne being removed /quitting/ whatever before he could bring the severely mutated Thing back to the group in #296. We never did get to see what Ben had become. Only in freakin' silhouette in the final issue of his first series. By the time the FF found him on monster island he looked pretty much the same as he always had. Very disappointing.

Then the book really sucked for a few years, reaching its lowest point ever (the infamous "nightmare" issues) before the promise of Walt Simonson coming on board...

I had high hopes for Walt Simonson, but I didn't think his art style suited the book. And he spent wasted way too much time letting Sharon Ventura run around as the She-Thing. By the time he restored Ben to being the Thing again, his run was almost over.

For my money, Mark Waid is the best we've had since Byrne. I still don't care for what he did to Dr. Doom, but otherwise his run was pretty solid, especially "Hereafter."

So yeah, while I love the characters and the history, I've spent most of my 35 years of FF fandom being disappointed. Lee/Kirby was the real deal, and I missed the party. Sure I've read all the L&K back issues (I even own issue #2 through #540) but it just wasn't the same as experiencing them when they were actually the live monthly FF.

 

[Ravin' Ray]

Kudos to you Malus for giving us a detailed account of your own FF experience. I've only read the Indexes to the older FF stories (around Franklin's birth was where it started) up to sometime before the Arkon storyline with the parallel-universe FF. If I had the dough to get those TPBs of the FF Visionaries, I would.

 

[Dragon]

Okay...

Firstly, I don't have much nice to say about Tom DeFealco's run. He "killed" Reed & Doom and kept that lame sham going for over two years. He "aged" Franklin into "Psi-Lord" and then there was retconning Johnny & Alicia's marriage by having her turn out to be a Skrull. God forbid we get some actual character development that sticks. DeFalco crafted some fairly memorable stories, and I liked his scripting okay, but I've always found him greatly overrated and his FF run pretty forgettable.

My favorite post-Lee&Kirby issues are #112-149, the first dozen of which were written by Stan before he handed things over to Roy Thomas. This is partly because I started reading the FF with #112 when I was 6 and have great fondness for that era, but I think most of this period holds up with re-reading, especially the "second coming" of Galactus in #120-123.(Remember the Air Walker, Gabriel? That story was my first exposure to the Surfer & Galactus, and I think Lee & Buscema did a fine job.) I'm also partial to the very lengthy and very well-written "Reed-and-Sue-almost-divorce" storyline that began in #129 and culminated in their reunion in #149. This was also the period that saw Johnny lose Crystal to that freakin' pansy, Quicksilver (Stupid Crystal) and we saw Medusa take Sue's place in the FF from #132 all the way to #159.
You know, Reed & Sue's marital crisis was pretty heavy stuff for a 10 year old to absorb back then. To be honest, I didn't really know anything about divorce up until then. (Now everybody's doin' it. ) This was also the period where Reed was forced to shut down little Franklin's mind before his powers consumed the solar system. Sheesh! Roy Thomas (and Gerry Conway) really put the characters through some tough times, and the writing and art (Buscema, then Rich Buckler) were both solid throughout.

Since that brief period in the early 70's, only John Byrne has breathed real life into the FF to my satisfaction, and I think much of his run is (gasp!) severely over-rated. I love the first 30 issues or so that he did (about as much as I love most of the Lee/Kirby run) but for me Byrne started to go off the rails when he wrote Ben out of the book and when he stopped inking his own artwork. I just never cared for Jerry Ordway's inks on Byrne. (To qualify that: I love Ordway's art, but disliked his inking on Byrne's work.) And I will always resent Byrne being removed /quitting/ whatever before he could bring the severely mutated Thing back to the group in #296. We never did get to see what Ben had become. Only in freakin' silhouette in the final issue of his first series. By the time the FF found him on monster island he looked pretty much the same as he always had. Very disappointing.

Then the book really sucked for a few years, reaching its lowest point ever (the infamous "nightmare" issues) before the promise of Walt Simonson coming on board...

I had high hopes for Walt Simonson, but I didn't think his art style suited the book. And he spent wasted way too much time letting Sharon Ventura run around as the She-Thing. By the time he restored Ben to being the Thing again, his run was almost over.

For my money, Mark Waid is the best we've had since Byrne. I still don't care for what he did to Dr. Doom, but otherwise his run was pretty solid, especially "Hereafter."

So yeah, while I love the characters and the history, I've spent most of my 35 years of FF fandom being disappointed. Lee/Kirby was the real deal, and I missed the party. Sure I've read all the L&K back issues (I even own issue #2 through #540) but it just wasn't the same as experiencing them when they were actually the live monthly FF.

Wow. Our experiences as FF fans are almost exactly the same.

 

[Malus]

You know, I re-read those early 70's issues recently, and I was surprised just how engaging they were. They really hold up.
Sure, Reed and Sue eventually got back togther (as they will this time) but even knowing the outcome and being the jaded reader that I am, I was still impressed with the emotional punch some of those stories still pack.
The current issue, #240, is fairly well-written I suppose, but it takes more than a dozen pages to do what Roy Thomas did in a page or two. When Sue leaves Reed and the FF at the end of FF#130 (after refusing to flee with Franklin during a battle with the Frightful Four) you really feel a sense of possible finality. John Buscema, for my money, has drawn the best post-Kirby Reed Richards. He could really make him look tortured.
Overly muscular, yes, but otherwise spot-on.

Maybe I can find that page and post it.