The FairTax Thread: Discussion Only

[Mysterio]

so in other words, every business is forced to be a tax collector for the government

no. the roles are the same under the current income tax as they would be under the FairTax. the process is the same.

 

[SuBe]

so in other words, every business is forced to be a tax collector for the government

Yes, but only they retailers. Remember, they already collect taxes. State Sales, the Embedded, etc. They would collect the taxes, send them up to their County Tax Collectors. They would review the Math, and return 1/4 of 1% as a fee for Collecting. The County Tax Collectors would pass this on to the State Tax Collectors office, whom would review over the paperwork, and so one, then return 1/4 of 1% to the County Tax Collectors for Collection and Review. They would pass it up to the Federal Government.

No manufacturers and so on. Only Taxes are collected at the Retail level.

 

[SuBe]

no. the roles are the same under the current income tax as they would be under the FairTax. the process is the same.

Nope, I corrected you. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_audiovideo_QA_videoclips

Watch the video about collections.

 

[Mysterio]

Nope, I corrected you. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_audiovideo_QA_videoclips

Watch the video about collections.

i understand it completely. my point is that nothing changes. Lackey is going to call business a bunch of tax collectors regardless. retailers collect taxes now just as they would under the FairTax. the point is the roles are the same; they aren't being forced into something that they aren't already doing.

 

[SuBe]

i understand it completely. my point is that nothing changes. Lackey is going to call business a bunch of tax collectors regardless. retailers collect taxes now just as they would under the FairTax. the point is the roles are the same; they aren't being forced into something that they aren't already doing.

Yep, that is correct. And, with the Fairtax, they would receive a portion of that Collected tax as a fee for collecting it. Everyone is a winner.

 

[bell110]

SupermanBeyond is a genius

 

[SuBe]

SupermanBeyond is a genius

I'm Humbled. Thanks, please invite your friends to this thread for a quick read. They can ask anything they would like about the Fairtax. I will answer anything or point them in the right direction if needs be.

 

[CK1]

From reading this thread, which politician is on board with this idea?

 

[Mysterio]

of the candidates, only Huckabee has come out in support of it while Tancredo is a co-sponsor of the bill.

http://fairtaxscorecard.com/Replookup.phtml?LookupBy=name&LastIni=R

www.fairtax.org

http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Tax-Book...d_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197060799&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/FairTax-Answe...bs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197060799&sr=8-2

 

[SuBe]

From reading this thread, which politician is on board with this idea?

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_presScorecard

Thanks for asking. So far the 2 lead candidate for President that Support it is Huckabee (GOP) and Gravel (DNC). Theres a list I've attached that has the all the Politicians.

You could also check Fairtaxscorecard.com to check where your Representives stand on the Fairtax.

 

[bell110]

I thought Paul was in favor of the FairTax.

 

[SuBe]

I thought Paul was in favor of the FairTax.

He is, it is on my list. I only took the time to write the Top 2 contenders. One GOP and one DNC. I don't want this to become a Political Party thread, so I included a link that has every candidate that supports the Fairtax.

 

[Mysterio]

I thought Paul was in favor of the FairTax.

right, forgot about him.

 

[SuBe]

right, forgot about him.

Yeah, It's easy to forget Ron Paul, but his is for the Fairtax.

In Washington we hear a lot of talk about tax cuts, but the rhetoric does not always match the reality. For most Americans, taxes remain too complex and too high. After the tumult of the upcoming midterm election, it is imperative that Congress gets back to basics and addresses our terrible tax system.
Lower taxes benefit all Americans by increasing economic growth and encouraging wealth creation. I’m in favor of cutting everybody’s taxes – rich, poor, and otherwise. Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by forty dollars a month, or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains and hire more employees, the net effect is beneficial. Both either spend, save, or invest the extra dollars, which helps all of us more than if those dollars were sent to the black hole known as the federal Treasury.

Many conservatives have touted the Fair Tax proposal as an issue in the upcoming election. A pure consumption tax like the Fair Tax would be better than the current system only if we truly did away with the income tax by repealing the 16th amendment. Otherwise, we could end up with both the income tax and a national sales tax. A consumption tax also provides more transparency and less complexity. But the real issue is total spending by government, not tax reform. In other words, why change the tax structure if spending stays the same? Once we accept that the federal government needs $2.7 trillion from us – and more each year – the only question left is from whom it will be collected. Until the federal government is held to its proper constitutionally limited functions, tax reform will remain a mirage.

I apply a very simple test to any proposal to overhaul the tax code: Does it reduce or eliminate an existing tax? If not, then it amounts to nothing more than a political shell game that pits taxpayers against each other in a lobbying scramble to make sure the other guy pays. True tax reform is as simple as cutting or eliminating taxes. No studies, panels, committees, or hearings are needed. When reform proposals seem complicated, they almost certainly don’t cut taxes. Congress should simply focus on cutting existing taxes and reducing spending, instead of complicated overhauls of the system.

The question to ask yourself is this: What would I do with the money withheld from my paycheck each month? The answer is simple: you would spend, save, or invest the money, all of which do more for the economy and society than sending it to Washington. Thanks to the deception of income tax withholding, however, some people actually look forward to tax time and a much-anticipated refund. Imagine how quickly Americans would demand lower taxes and spending if they had to write the federal government a check each month!

Tax relief is important, but members of Congress need to back up tax cuts with spending cuts – and they need to vote NO on every wasteful appropriations bill until we start over with the federal budget. True fiscal conservatism combines both low taxes and low spending.
Cutting spending would not be hard if Congress simply showed the political will to tackle the problem. I’m not talking about cutting the rate at which government spending grows, but cutting the actual amount of money spent by the federal government in a single year.

If federal spending grows at 5% rather than 7% one year, that’s hardly a great achievement on the part of Congress. The current federal budget of around $2.7 trillion could be cut to $2.5 trillion quite easily. The vast majority of Americans would not even notice. But we must begin chipping away at the federal budget if we hope to address the underlying problem of government debt.



October 16, 2006
Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Fair Tax is one of those things that is great in theory, but will never be fully understood until it is actually applied. Communism is wonderful on paper, but the practice of it is fair different. The problem with something like that is that we won't know if it works or not until we try it. If it doesn't work we are up a certain creek without a certain paddle.

The verdict is still out on this one for me. It seems like it could work, but so did trickle down economics-- and we all know how that turned out. If I understand Fair Tax correctly, rich people will be taxed on their big purchases. While that's all fine and dandy, an economic relapse resulting in fewer rich people purchasing fewer expensive items could only end in economic disaster. I think there are too many variables with Fair Tax.

 

[SuBe]

Fair Tax is one of those things that is great in theory, but will never be fully understood until it is actually applied. Communism is wonderful on paper, but the practice of it is fair different. The problem with something like that is that we won't know if it works or not until we try it. If it doesn't work we are up a certain creek without a certain paddle.

The verdict is still out on this one for me. It seems like it could work, but so did trickle down economics-- and we all know how that turned out. If I understand Fair Tax correctly, rich people will be taxed on their big purchases. While that's all fine and dandy, an economic relapse resulting in fewer rich people purchasing fewer expensive items could only end in economic disaster. I think there are too many variables with Fair Tax.

Steve, it is not the rich would be taxed only on "Expensive" Purchases. Everyone would be taxed equally. Not everyone who is working is taxed on their income, but when you spend it. We know that economies can survive like this (without income tax) Florida is an example. We dont have income tax in Florida. The examples of the Free Market dictacting lower prices really happen. Watch these videos http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_audiovideo_QA_videoclips.

They are very informative. If you have any specific questions, let me know.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Steve, it is not the rich would be taxed only on "Expensive" Purchases. Everyone would be taxed equally. Not everyone who is working is taxed on their income, but when you spend it. We know that economies can survive like this (without income tax) Florida is an example. We dont have income tax in Florida. The examples of the Free Market dictacting lower prices really happen. Watch these videos http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_audiovideo_QA_videoclips.

They are very informative. If you have any specific questions, let me know.

And rich people make expensive purchases. My poor ass don't got a yacht.

 

[SuBe]

And rich people make expensive purchases. My poor ass don't got a yacht.

Neither does mine, but with the Fairtax, you have the ability to save more of your money, instead of paying the Government before you even see your paycheck. You would be able to save up for a boat, easier, than under the current tax code. But if you have a question, ask.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Neither does mine, but with the Fairtax, you have the ability to save more of your money, instead of paying the Government before you even see your paycheck. You would be able to save up for a boat, easier, than under the current tax code. But if you have a question, ask.

But the big chunks of taxes will come out of big purchases like yachts, Ferarri's and mansions, does it not? So what if the rich start saving and stop spending? The bottom will fall out?

And yes, I have the oppurtunity to save more and buy my yacht, but--uh oh! Now that yacht is taxed like a motherf**ker! Now I can't afford it because the government wants their piece. Like I said, too many variables to just say "yeah, it works"

 

[SuBe]

But the big chunks of taxes will come out of big purchases like yachts, Ferarri's and mansions, does it not? So what if the rich start saving and stop spending? The bottom will fall out?

And yes, I have the oppurtunity to save more and buy my yacht, but--uh oh! Now that yacht is taxed like a motherf**ker! Now I can't afford it because the government wants their piece. Like I said, too many variables to just say "yeah, it works"

Have you read all of the posts? Have you gone to any of the links I've posted? Please read up on the Plan. We have nearly 100 posts just talking about how the plan will effect the economy. I've sent you video FAQs. Please look it up.

 

[hammy]

I'm always amazed at how many people are willing and resigned to continue feeding the uncontrollable insurrection that is big government. Some people are actually worried that under this system, the government won't get enough money. The government already gets far too much of our money, and happily mishandles and wastes it without regard to us, the taxpayers who earned it in the first place.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I would feel bad for the people on the bubble of poverty.

 

[Hotwire]

OK, so we pay taxes on food and other essentials, but the government gives us this money back? Then why even bother paying them in the first place. Unless, and this is the fun part, there would ultimately be a lapse in amounts. Meaning we'd eventually overpay and the government would pocket the extra.

 

[Hotwire]

Please everyone, keep your cool. This is a discussion, I don't want this to be a heated debate.
1. This is a situation where the Free Market will force retailers to lower the prices, then add on the Fairtax. If one retailer complies with lowering the price of their goods, all others will to be competitive. And there are already a dozen retailers have signed the petition for the Fairtax. Walmart being one of them. Here is an example:(This is very naive. To think that a company would not just keep charging what they have been and just pocket the difference. As for the example of the $5.00 airline tax, that was $5.00, this would be $100+.)

Under the current system: I make and sell Widgets. I include all taxes down the pike, and this are included at the retail level. I hear that the Fairtax is coming, So I can horde the extra 23%. Right? But my competitor XYZ Widget Co. is going to seize this moment to reduce his price of the widgets and gain more market share. I Mean, he can make the same profit as yesterday, and sell many, many more than I can at 23% more at the retail level. If I want to catch up, I have to reduce my price too. There is a real world example when the $5 Federal Airtavel Ticket Tax expired in 1996. The big airlines figured that this would be a good oppurtunity to keep the extra $5 dollars. It took 6 hours for a Smaller company to reduce its price, forcing the others change their prices.

2. You only get back what you pay in taxes on Necessities. Not on other goods. That includes Food, Medical Services, Etc. You would, with your employer, fill out paperwork, just like you do now, saying how many dependants you have. This paper work goes up to the Dept. of Heatlth and Human Services. On this form, it would have your SS# and an Address. They would send you the estimated Sales Tax on foods and necessities you purchase in a Month. See http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#3 for more information. (Then why pay them in the first place. Also, this seems a lot like getting the Dept. of Health and Human Services to do what the IRS already does. And seeing as how the DHHS is already doing a bang-up job at their current responsibilities, I'm not sure I want them handling my money.)

3. Remember, with the removal of the Embedded Taxes and the Addition of the Nation Sales Tax, the price of the goods would stay the same, before you add the State Sales tax. So, the Price tag on the item looks that same as it does today. If the State removes the State Income tax, that would mean that you would receive 100% totally. If they increae the State Sales tax a few Percentage Points to cover this, that is ok, because you would have all of your paycheck. So what if an Item costs $2 more for the item, you would be saving an Average of 33% from your paycheck that didn't have with our current tax code. (Let's use my friend the contractor again. He already gets 100% of his check. Now, let's say his AC unit dies. Now, this easily a $1000 item that with the addition of this tax would now cost $1230. So, his situation goes from bad to worse. And what about buying a car? Do these taxes now go to 23%? suddenly a $20,000 car jumps to $24,600. So, I don't think trivializing a price increase is really the way to address these concerns. And if the state keeps it's income tax, but raises it a few percentage point, that's not ok.)

4. The Issue with your friends that pay all there taxes at the end of the year: Remember, they will not be filing taxes anymore. So no more having to save for that. No more having to put any money to pay off the Federal Government. They will pay the Taxes as they purchase, not a big lump sum.
(He's just trying to get from week to week right now. He's more worried about paying his mortgage than what he'll owe in taxes in April.)
I hope I answered all over these questions, if you have anymore, ask.

I've added some comments to your post, I hope they show you what a load of BS the idea of this "Fair Tax" is.

 

[Hotwire]

OK, here's an example of how this "Fair Tax" would effect a single mother, living in Georgia, and working for minimum wage.

1st, she makes $5.15/hour, so that equates to $206/week, without factoring taxes. Now, she has a 9 year-old son, so she spends at least $60/week in groceries, $20/week in gas to get back and forth to work, $10/week for her son's school lunch, and at least $15/week for incidentals. Now, that's $105/week in expenses leaving $101/week for everything else. Now, if she wants to buy anything special for her son for Christmas it will now cost her 23% more. Let's use the Wii for example, it normally cost $250, now saving $15/week to save up for it would take her roughly 4.5 months to reach the $250. Now add the 23% tax and the price jumps to $307.50 and would take her over 5 months to come up with. Now, tell me how this "Fair Tax" helped her in any way?