The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 8

Discussion in 'The Flash' started by Thread Manager, May 24, 2016.

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  1. Kyle Registered

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    Netflix is way too early to judge for me. While I see their Netflix quality as being better, I don't see their world building coming even close to DCTVU yet. If MCU would treat their Netflix and ABC shows with respect by actually integrating them rather than leaving them for some reason as the kid they always hide away, it would be a completely different ballgame and MCU would be in the lead - but, so far they're going for a divide that doesn't make any remote sense.
     
  2. Infinity9999x Registered

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    I'm not sure. I mean, to an extent that's a bit of a futile question because even the best time travel films/shows never make sense when you really begin to look into them.

    If they get back to the form of S1, I think it could be a damn good seasom, but if they take after S2, it will probably be a case of somewhat squandered potential.
     
  3. Nathan Registered

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    I think they could do it, like they did it with Hartley Rathaway, the Pied Piper. Barry changed the timeline, and suddenly Hartley was part of the team, or well on friendly terms with them. So even with events changed, they didn't change all too drastically, and all the events leading up to Barry traveling back in time to get help from Thawne, still took place.

    So whatever they'd do to merge worlds, Season 1 of Supergirl would have still happened, only maybe with slight variations, like maybe she met Barry sooner.
     
  4. Infinity9999x Registered

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    Eh, MCU is still the best at world building. Civil war alone wins that prize. DCTU is doing fine enough, but it's still essentially just a few episodes that are crossovers. It's still cool, don't get me wrong, but it's nowhere near the MCU.
     
  5. Kyle Registered

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    I'm not talking crossovers and that's where Marvel is/was going wrong. Granted, with TV you can go here a lot faster. It shouldn't be just crossover events. Any of the MARVEL heroes need a lawyer - they should go to Matt Murdock for instance. MCU is starting to change that up by including characters outside of larger team up films (Civil War, Homecoming, Ragnarok) but now they need to keep that up for me to truly see it as close. Iron Man 3 - the end scene with Hulk, another prime example of doing it right. They just need to do more with that. It doesn't need to be big - it just needs to be in a way constant and consistent - it all comes from the smaller things.

    DCTVU - the cross-overs are even going on when the main heroes don't meet, many of their supporting characters go back and forth from time to time. Hell, Barry showed up on Arrow in the last couple of episodes for essentially a 30 second powerful character scene and moment.
     
  6. Marvel Knight Registered

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    I think their smartest move lately is cancelling the ABC shows by Marvel.

    Those were obviously pre-Daredevil, before the bar was raised. AOS will likely end next year.

    The Netflix material doesn't require much world-building. The world is already built. The Defenders will be just another fascinating corner of the MCU.
     
  7. Infinity9999x Registered

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    The entirety of Civil War was one giant merged world story, and one that not only combined tons of their characters, it's plot was directly influenced by the events of previous MCU films. It's the pinnacle of cinematic world building, nothing else had come close yet. Not to say the other shows and workds are bad, but MCU has easily done it the best.
     
  8. Kyle Registered

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    Civil War did the exact same thing the Avengers films did. You could basically call it Avengers 3. So pulling that off doesn't come off as a big wow to me, it just comes off as Avengers 3. As said - I could care less about the big stuff, it's the little things that matter to me. The intricacies of everything when it's not a big Avengers type film. In terms of world building, Banner showing up at the end of Iron Man 3 in terms of world building is a lot more impressive to me than Civil War or Ultron was. Was Civil War a great film? Yes. Was it truly that innovative? Not really, it was just Avengers 3. Therefore what I'm looking forward to most is 'Homecoming' and 'Ragnarok' to see what they do there - I don't care about the big crossover events, I care about the little things having it there and present when it's not a crossover event.

    ADDING: The BEST world building thing MCU has done outside of the first Avengers is the Avengers headquarters scene in Ant-Man.

    Hopefully, they keep things like that going. Small appearances. Not big. Just small key moments that really elevate it. MCU seems to have turned a new leaf with Ant Man which is why I'm excited and hope they continue that with Homecoming and Ragnarok. Keeping moments like that outside of Avenger films.
     
    #108 Kyle, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  9. Infinity9999x Registered

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    I don't want to turn this into a discussion about CW, but that film had tons of little name drops and world building events (as the whole of the MCU does) and was a film where it's central plot was dependent on previous films, whereas Avengers was more or less a standalone.

    Nothing else has come close to the world building that MCU has set up. And again, that's not saying that Flarrowverse is doing a bad job. It's not, it's doing a great job with what it has. Honestly though, with how Arrow has been going this past season....I don't mind them taking as little Arrow influence as possible.
     
  10. Kyle Registered

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    Again great film, but it was Avengers 3. That film had more than little name drops, it was an Avengers film. The central plot of Avengers, Ultron, and Civil War are all dependent upon the previous films. It was Tony Stark's post traumatic stress disorder as shown in Iron Man 3, resulting from the event in Avengers 1. The best world building film is Avengers 1 since they were planting consistent seeds. Avengers 2 let the ball drop some. Avengers 3/Civil War raised the bar back in terms of quality.

    I'm not, and I don't want to keep repeating this, talking about Avengers type big event films. I'm talking about true solo stand alone films. For me the best world building thing that happened was Ant Man at Avengers Tower and Banner talking with Stark at the end of Iron Man 3. Small scenes? Yes. But it clearly showed that even in their solo films they're a big part of each other's worlds outside of the big event films. That's what I want.

    In short, I want a clear notion in their stand alone films that even though it's not an Avengers event - they're all still in communicado in some way with each other. As said DCTVU, it's not the event crossovers that get to me - it's sharing supporting characters and supporting villains across shows when there is no event to be had. It's the little things that show that even when Flash and Arrow aren't fighting together, they're part of the same larger world and their teams and friends are in communication with one another. Outside of Avengers type films we rarely have gotten that, outside of the scenes that I've mentioned that go above and beyond the event film, which is why I say the MCU is close it just needs to go a little farther and keep it up with their solo films to come.

    To clarify, I would absolutely love to see Selvig in an Iron Man film when his knowledge is needed, that would phenomenal to me, etc. A stronger focus on the supporting characters strongly interacting with one another or a couple of heroes just chatting like it's the most normal thing in the world outside of an event film (Iron Man 3) so that we get the sense that it's not just drop and go (which it isn't like in the comics) - that it is a very consistent thing in their lives that doesn't just crop up a couple of times. Ant Man showed the best step forward with that since the first Avengers, just hopefully they keep along that route in having these connections go beyond big event crossover films to establish a consistency in the characters' lives. Dr. Strange could be a HUGE step forward with that because he can help with all matters of mystic dealings like he does in the comics. They have it, just utilize it outside of event reunion films.
     
    #110 Kyle, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  11. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    I am astonished that I am actually about to say this, being the person I am, but. . .

    . . .it doesn't *need* to make logical sense. It needs to make narrative and emotional sense. The important question is not "how does this fit mechanically with every other bit of time travel revealed", its "how will this effect Barry's journey as a character, in terms of the consequences good and bad?"
     
  12. DigificWriter Registered

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    Then you're willfully ignoring a number of major and inescapable differences between the history of Earth-1 and the history of "Earth-S", all of which have to do with the public's knowledge of the existence of superpowers and aliens.

    With Supergirl being set more or less in real-time (as are the Arrowverse shows), you have a situation in which Superman has been a publicly known figure since at least the early 2000s, long before the Particle Accelerator exploded and long before Oliver Queen was lost on Lian Yu. Trying to organically reconcile that fact with the history established by Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow cannot be done because it would require tossing out pretty much everything that those series have established, and would also mean rewriting Supergirl Season 1 as a whole.
     
  13. Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    They may find a way to merge Supergirl's world with Oliver and Barry's.
     
  14. Supernova Registered

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    Based on reviews and fans all over the world yes it does. My wife is 29 and watches shows very little but loves the flash for everything it offers.

    Its a superhero show and there is always gonna be cheese but this show has it all. Fun/ drama/ action/ countless comic references and most of all heart.
    Id put this show and some of its best episodes against big blockbuster films and get a more satisfying experience then say green lantern and thor 1 and 2.

    If the shows not for you thats ok too. I hate game of thrones and walking dead but I know there are fans who crave that product.
     
  15. DigificWriter Registered

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    They can't.
     
  16. Kyle Registered

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    Exactly. It's the heart that really elevates it to. I've never cried during a superhero show and rarely for any TV show. But, 'The Flash' has made me break down and cry like a baby about 5 times by now probably. In order to effect someone like that, you need everything else to be working and firing on all cylinders. Celebrity fans have also had a big reaction to the show, most notable being Kevin Smith filming himself crying during the Season 1 Flash finale before he even became involved with the show and I'm guessing there a lot of similar type reactions all around. It's what makes me hesitant about the Flash film - it's not that I question if they can have great special effects and fights, it's that the heart this show has is really powerful and unique to it. As said, it's the only superhero adaptation that has consistently effected me on a very emotional level.
     
  17. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Well, they *can*. I just kind of doubt this will be it. Honestly, I doubt this will have any relevance to the other shows at all; its just going to be the opening plot for Flash s3.
     
  18. Supernova Registered

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    Meh daredevil is boring outside him in the suit fighting and I could careless about there other netflix marvel shows coming. I wont turn this into a flame war but its even more goofier when the punisher is in the hospital with his over the top bruises pretty much covering his face and bleeding like a blood bank.
     
  19. Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    Of course they can, it is a superhero TV show. They can do what they want.
     
  20. DigificWriter Registered

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    Barry saving his mom is not going to suddenly erase the Multiversal barriers and retroactively graft the history of Supergirl's Earth onto the history of Earth-1, and they can't combine the universes without erasing their histories and creating a new universe.
     
  21. Supernova Registered

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    I dont know man they teased the singularity last year and this year we got earth 2 all season.
     
  22. TheFuture Valar Dohaeris

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    I've loved what Marvel and Netflix have done by building a street level narrative that has serious and realistic consequences.

    On the other hand, while the DC/CW marriage isn't perfect I still find it to be very entertaining, particularly The Flash. I just love how it unashamedly embraces its roots.

    So for me, both studios have a good thing going on tv, just for different reasons.

    Why do some people have to always make this into an either/or type deal? It's incredibly childish.
     
  23. Infinity9999x Registered

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    Ah, okay. I think we just have a different idea of what we consider world-building To me, it's really building a world within this cinematic universe where some of the stories SHOULD'T be stand alone entires. It should build off the previous entry, all living in one self contained world.

    I also enjoy what you're talking about though too, the little references that remind us, yeah this story is pretty much a stand alone but it still lives in this world. Though I would still say that MCU still does that the best as well. The sheer number of easter eggs in those movies are massive. Flash does a decent job of it as well, though I think they could even have more of the little crossovers. But Flash and Arrow have still done a very solid job of it.
     
  24. Astro13Zombie Registered

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    Look at his name and sig.
    Is it really so surprising? :funny:
     
  25. Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    It can be done another time, if they ever decide to do it.

    They don't have to erase their histories if they ever decide to merge Supergirl's world with Oliver and Barry's.
     
    #125 Slade W, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
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