The Flash The Flash Season 1 Episode 17 "Tricksters"

[DoomGuy91]

So it seems the Reverse Flash is not only from the future, but from an alternate timeline. It is likely that him and Future Barry are from the same timeline (that one in which in which the particle accelerator went online in 2020). And since Harrison Wells was not murdered by Thawne in the original timeline and went on to live and invent it with his wife, that also means the event of Barrys mom dying never happened (since Thawne did not travel back to 2000, in the original timeline) in the original reality.

In other words the Barry we see fighting Thawne in the past, is not a future version of the Barry of the show, but one that has not lost his mother.

Thawne did not simply play a part of history (like in some time travel fiction, the traveler is just making history, not changing time) by going back in time, he created an alternate timeline.

Now I wonder what happened to the original timeline (and with it, Future Barry). Is that timeline gone, and that Barry erased? After all, sometime in fiction, when an alternate timeline is made, it replaces the original (which just happened when Barry went back into the past 1 day). However other times in fiction, an alternate timeline can be created while preserving the original.

This news also means that the Barry of the show does not HAVE to travel back in time, that was already done by an alternate future version of himself (who since never lost his mother, was not going back in time to save her, but stop Thawne from killing his past self)

 

[Derrick9592]

Mark Hamill did an amazing job as the Trickster. Loved the Star Wars/Breaking Bad reference.

 

[vantheman77]

So it seems the Reverse Flash is not only from the future, but from an alternate timeline. It is likely that him and Future Barry are from the same timeline (that one in which in which the particle accelerator went online in 2020). And since Harrison Wells was not murdered by Thawne in the original timeline and went on to live and invent it with his wife, that also means the event of Barrys mom dying never happened (since Thawne did not travel back to 2000, in the original timeline) in the original reality.

In other words the Barry we see fighting Thawne in the past, is not a future version of the Barry of the show, but one that has not lost his mother.

Thawne did not simply play a part of history (like in some time travel fiction, the traveler is just making history, not changing time) by going back in time, he created an alternate timeline.

Now I wonder what happened to the original timeline (and with it, Future Barry). Is that timeline gone, and that Barry erased? After all, sometime in fiction, when an alternate timeline is made, it replaces the original (which just happened when Barry went back into the past 1 day). However other times in fiction, an alternate timeline can be created while preserving the original.

This news also means that the Barry of the show does not HAVE to travel back in time, that was already done by an alternate future version of himself (who since never lost his mother, was not going back in time to save her, but stop Thawne from killing his past self)

They could pull a Star Trek reboot trick where that original timeline still existed while alternate timeline also exists as well.

I want to see future Barry's costume.

This episode has the epicness that both Out of Time and Rogue Time should have possessed.

 

[Sawyer]

This episode was pure nerdgasm.

 

[Broseph44]

This episode was pure nerdgasm.

It totally was, damn this episode was awesome. The show is ****ing amazing I swear. It never ceases to keep me entertained and on the edge of my seat. With all its reveals and twists. It's perfection.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

"I am your father" genuinely laughed at that part, was awesome to see Mark on the show finally, Reverse Flash flashbacks were great to see, even though I'd guessed that was how it would play out. Hope they bring back Mark down the road.

 

[Dave McFly]

Mayor Bellows is the same actor who played Officer Bellows in the 90 tv show. So you had 3 90 Flash actors in one episode .

 

[mkilban2]

Two questions: why is eddie knowing who barry is a bad thing as some have eluded? (Don't answer that if its a big spoiler or something, im not a comic reader) and two, in the comics do a lot of people close to barry know hes flash or is that just how they're doing it on the show? Not that I mind, I mean it makes sense for this and arrow that the majority of the big players in the cast will know the hero, its not like they're gunna tattle lol.

 

[spiderman2]

"I am your father" genuinely laughed at that part, was awesome to see Mark on the show finally, Reverse Flash flashbacks were great to see, even though I'd guessed that was how it would play out. Hope they bring back Mark down the road.

Yeah that was great I was like they just pulled a star wars lol. I also liked the speed reference to about barry being the bus.

 

[Headliner]

Two questions: why is eddie knowing who barry is a bad thing as some have eluded? (Don't answer that if its a big spoiler or something, im not a comic reader) and two, in the comics do a lot of people close to barry know hes flash or is that just how they're doing it on the show? Not that I mind, I mean it makes sense for this and arrow that the majority of the big players in the cast will know the hero, its not like they're gunna tattle lol.

Think about it. Eddie already knows that Iris goes crazy over the Flash. Now that Eddie knows Barry is the Flash he's going to hate Barry now.

 

[herolee10]

Okay, so here's a list of what we know or potentially know about the "Prime" (Original) Timeline for this show, where the Reverse Flash hadn't gone back and killed Nora Allen in the process:

1. Wells and his wife had gotten successfully married to each other, where they eventually created the Particle Accelerator...in 2020 (6-7 years later when compared to the new timeline). It's also suggested that unlike in the new/present timeline, the accelerator didn't explode in the Prime one.

2. Barry supposedly received his powers much later in the Prime Timeline (2020), which means that he only had been the Flash for about 4 years by the time period from which the new article is dated from that Wells keeps checking up on.

3. Oliver had never revealed his identity for the entire public to know of, hence why Wells (Thawne) didn't know who the Arrow was.

4. Apparently, in the Prime timeline, the likes of Cold and Heatwave had not existed...otherwise, Wells would have known on how to deal with them when they first showed up.

 

[Lilbaz]

So it seems the Reverse Flash is not only from the future, but from an alternate timeline. It is likely that him and Future Barry are from the same timeline (that one in which in which the particle accelerator went online in 2020). And since Harrison Wells was not murdered by Thawne in the original timeline and went on to live and invent it with his wife, that also means the event of Barrys mom dying never happened (since Thawne did not travel back to 2000, in the original timeline) in the original reality.

In other words the Barry we see fighting Thawne in the past, is not a future version of the Barry of the show, but one that has not lost his mother.

Thawne did not simply play a part of history (like in some time travel fiction, the traveler is just making history, not changing time) by going back in time, he created an alternate timeline.

Now I wonder what happened to the original timeline (and with it, Future Barry). Is that timeline gone, and that Barry erased? After all, sometime in fiction, when an alternate timeline is made, it replaces the original (which just happened when Barry went back into the past 1 day). However other times in fiction, an alternate timeline can be created while preserving the original.

This news also means that the Barry of the show does not HAVE to travel back in time, that was already done by an alternate future version of himself (who since never lost his mother, was not going back in time to save her, but stop Thawne from killing his past self)

Does pose some interesting questions. It leaves it open for Wells to stay in the show even if Barry defeats the reverse flash. If Barry goes back in time and rescues his mum and defeats the Reverse Flash then the original time line will revert with Wells and his wife still alive.

Can't wait to see what way they go with it.

 

[mkilban2]

Could him saving his mom end up like the Flashpoint movie? Where his mom is saved but he has no powers, then goes to see Oliver instead of Batman and finds he's not Arrow (or someone else is), or just ddoesn't know Barry.

Then we have a week or two of alternate Flash and an alternate Arrow show. Or maybe that would be too confusing to do for the casual viewer.

I feel they may work something like that in either this season or the next.

Also, with Grodd seemingly being set up to be the next big baddie what kind of stories could he bring?

 

[Hunter Rider]

The flashbacks with Wells and Eobard were interesting, the gimmick Eobard used to steal Wells body was very similar toi the one in Fringe that was used for body-snatching.

I am now thinking this body switcheroo gimmick is how Eddie's sudden heel turn comes about, once the Wells identity is exposed he's going to need a new body to use that will still keep him close to Barry. Of course that might prove tricky given they are relatives.....

As for the Trickster's story, I absolutely loved it, just classic comic book goodness and Hamill left no piece of scenery unchewed lol, plus he got a neat little ESB homage in. The whole tone of it reminded me of a STAS episode.

 

[herolee10]

Here's some details from the Producers regarding the Wells-Thawne issue:

Beyond taking on Wells’ physical identity, Letscher’s Eobard also took a little something else from Cavanagh’s character, who has often talked about his late wife. “One of the things that kind of bled through was Wells’ love for Tess that Thawne absorbed when he absorbed his body,” Kreisberg reveals, so the doc isn’t completely gone.

And neither is Letscher, who will be back this season. In fact, when the EPs filled in the actor about Eobard’s arc, “They definitely talked about the possibility of him continuing past this season,” Letscher says. “They’re still developing what that story would look like. There are so many stories you could tell with this character from the Flash anthology. He appears in so many different iterations. They have a lot to choose from, including their own story.”

http://tvline.com/2015/03/31/the-flash-real-reverse-flash-eobard-thawne-season-1-spoilers/

 

[Human Torch]

Whoa!


Just-

Whoa!


Well,that certainly didn't disappoint! As a GINORMOUS fan of the 90's Flash series,I can honestly say that I can think of no greater loveletter to the show,than those 40 odd minutes.

Mark Hamill. What is there to say about the guy? He picked right up as if he never left! 25 years was yesterday! I could honestly believe that was the same Trickster he played from the 90's show,20 years later.

"I am your Father" I was just waiting for it,and it was worth every bit of the wait. Some great lines were reused from the original show too.The classic speed bomb gimmick was fun.

Seeing JWS with Hamill again (However briefly) was a treat,but I was more impressed with seeing him in the Lab coat in Star Labs again. I really wish they'd get him out of that jail pretty soon.

The new Trickster was great.He didn't get a heck of a lot of screen time,but you could tell he was trying to put his own spin of the Hamill Trickster.

Great to see Bellows in the show again too.As he's the Mayor of Central City,it would be nice to see him show up again.

I kinda wish they focused more on the Tricksters this ep and not done the flashbacks,but they were very effective. I'm kinda glad to see Reverse Flash looking more comic accurate,while not losing Tom in the role.Best of both worlds. Also great to get to make some sense of how Wells had a girlfriend and all that.

I'm glad I can honestly give this one a ten.Yet--they still managed to foul things up at the end. Why on God's good earth did they decide to tell Eddie? The guy just decked him last week! And they'd rather not tell Iris? I don't get it quite frankly,but we'll just have to see how it goes from here.

Looking forward to seeing those two chuckle heads again real soon! Maybe they will bring back Prank and have the whole crazy Trickster family back in business.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The flashbacks with Wells and Eobard were interesting, the gimmick Eobard used to steal Wells body was very similar toi the one in Fringe that was used for body-snatching.

I am now thinking this body switcheroo gimmick is how Eddie's sudden heel turn comes about, once the Wells identity is exposed he's going to need a new body to use that will still keep him close to Barry. Of course that might prove tricky given they are relatives.....

As for the Trickster's story, I absolutely loved it, just classic comic book goodness and Hamill left no piece of scenery unchewed lol, plus he got a neat little ESB homage in. The whole tone of it reminded me of a STAS episode.

Yeah, I don't think he could assume the body of his relative without erasing himself from the timeline either. I'm looking forward to finding out what Well's overall motivation for wanting to kill Barry in the first place is. It would be ironic if he were going back in time to kill Barry in order to avoid the Allen/Thawne family feud that evolves, because it seems that he's actually helping to cause it in this timeline (Barry would never have enlisted Eddie's help if he didn't suspect Wells). I am glad that his overall motivation wasn't the death of his wife (the death of an important female character is becoming far too common a motivating factor for both heroes and villains in the DC Tv universe). Honestly though, the entire Reverse Flash story line has been developed amazingly so far. Part of me almost doesn't want it to end.

And damn. Hamill was great wasn't he? I loved the Father bit. And maybe it's just because I have a dark sense of humor, but I really wanted Hamill to finish that bit off by going, "Just kidding. I just needed a gullible idiot" and then killing the mini-trickster. Or something to that effect.

 

[Frodo]

Well that's more like it. The episode was amazing , excellent , just all kinda nerd-gasims. From Mark Hamill channeling Luke and Joker, to seeing the Flash who captured my imagination at 10 years old, John Wesley Ship, to getting a explanation on how Thawne did it, To Barry knowing the truth, and even Iris actually doing her job. It was great, certainly leaps and bounds over last weeks episode. I can't wait for the show to return April 14. .

 

[DoomGuy91]

If the original timeline could still exist, maybe Thawne doesn't just want to return to his future, but the future of the original timeline (the home that he remembers).

In the comics, the powers of the Flash, has allowed him to go to travel to other existing timelines/universes.

The Original reality existing, could also give us the potential to see original future barry. Of course if that isn't the case, and that world and him have been erased, there is always the possibility of seeing him and his world, in flashbacks.

 

[vantheman77]

Okay, so here's a list of what we know or potentially know about the "Prime" (Original) Timeline for this show, where the Reverse Flash hadn't gone back and killed Nora Allen in the process:

1. Wells and his wife had gotten successfully married to each other, where they eventually created the Particle Accelerator...in 2020 (6-7 years later when compared to the new timeline). It's also suggested that unlike in the new/present timeline, the accelerator didn't explode in the Prime one.

2. Barry supposedly received his powers much later in the Prime Timeline (2020), which means that he only had been the Flash for about 4 years by the time period from which the new article is dated from that Wells keeps checking up on.

3. Oliver had never revealed his identity for the entire public to know of, hence why Wells (Thawne) didn't know who the Arrow was.

4. Apparently, in the Prime timeline, the likes of Cold and Heatwave had not existed...otherwise, Wells would have known on how to deal with them when they first showed up.

Since the future touched on the Crisis, we may be dealing with a combination of time travel and alternate realities. I wonder if Barry will meet his older self to deal with Reverse Flash down the line.

 

[Snow Queen]

The flashbacks with Wells and Eobard were interesting, the gimmick Eobard used to steal Wells body was very similar toi the one in Fringe that was used for body-snatching.

I am now thinking this body switcheroo gimmick is how Eddie's sudden heel turn comes about, once the Wells identity is exposed he's going to need a new body to use that will still keep him close to Barry. Of course that might prove tricky given they are relatives.....

As for the Trickster's story, I absolutely loved it, just classic comic book goodness and Hamill left no piece of scenery unchewed lol, plus he got a neat little ESB homage in. The whole tone of it reminded me of a STAS episode.

You could see the scenery in his teeth and it was glorious.

 

[herolee10]

Man, think of the epic banter/one-liner exchanges that this show would have when they pair up Captain Cold and Mark's Trickster together.lol

I still laugh so hard when Mark's Trickster noted on how it was "Unsanitary" for the Flash to give everyone injections of the antidote from the same needle.lol

 

[DrCosmic]

So it seems the Reverse Flash is not only from the future, but from an alternate timeline. It is likely that him and Future Barry are from the same timeline (that one in which in which the particle accelerator went online in 2020). And since Harrison Wells was not murdered by Thawne in the original timeline and went on to live and invent it with his wife, that also means the event of Barrys mom dying never happened (since Thawne did not travel back to 2000, in the original timeline) in the original reality.

In other words the Barry we see fighting Thawne in the past, is not a future version of the Barry of the show, but one that has not lost his mother.

Thawne did not simply play a part of history (like in some time travel fiction, the traveler is just making history, not changing time) by going back in time, he created an alternate timeline.

Now I wonder what happened to the original timeline (and with it, Future Barry). Is that timeline gone, and that Barry erased? After all, sometime in fiction, when an alternate timeline is made, it replaces the original (which just happened when Barry went back into the past 1 day). However other times in fiction, an alternate timeline can be created while preserving the original.

This news also means that the Barry of the show does not HAVE to travel back in time, that was already done by an alternate future version of himself (who since never lost his mother, was not going back in time to save her, but stop Thawne from killing his past self)

Remember how Flash's time travel works in Out of Time/Rogue Time? When he goes back, he merges the timelines, so there's no extra Barry. Once Barry goes back in time to his mother's death, the alternate timeline Barry no longer exists. He already doesn't have anywhere to come from anymore since Eobard changed his origin.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

This episode.
holy ****

 

[Seb]

And damn. Hamill was great wasn't he? I loved the Father bit. And maybe it's just because I have a dark sense of humor, but I really wanted Hamill to finish that bit off by going, "Just kidding. I just needed a gullible idiot" and then killing the mini-trickster. Or something to that effect.

Heh, I totally expected him to be lying and kill the little fanboy, too.

Remember how Flash's time travel works in Out of Time/Rogue Time? When he goes back, he merges the timelines, so there's no extra Barry. Once Barry goes back in time to his mother's death, the alternate timeline Barry no longer exists. He already doesn't have anywhere to come from anymore since Eobard changed his origin.

I think this is arguable. If I expected one single form of consistent time travel from this show, I'd be 100% with you, but from what we've seen so far, it seems as though time travel on the Flash comes in whatever flavour makes the plot work. I'm not a fan of this, but I'm mentally preparing myself.

Also, even assuming you are right, there's no concrete proof that timelines overwrite rather than split in two, so concurrent yet alternate timelines are still are possible route for the writers.