The Flash The Flash, Season 1, Episode 8 "Flash vs. Arrow"

[gugumugats]

Official synopsis:

The Flash, Tuesday, December 2 – "Flash vs. Arrow"

Spoiler

Barry (Grant Gustin) is thrilled when Oliver (guest star Stephen Amell), Felicity (guest star Emily Bett Rickards) and Diggle (guest star David Ramsey) come to Central City to investigate a case involving a deadly boomerang. Excited about teaming up with his friend, Barry asks Oliver if he’d like to help him stop Ray Bivolo, the meta-human Barry is currently tracking. Bivolo causes people to lose control of their emotions and has been using that skill to rob banks. Unfortunately, the superhero partnership doesn’t go as smoothly as Barry expected. When Oliver tells Barry he still has a lot to learn, Barry sets out to prove him wrong by attempting to stop Bivolo alone. However, when Bivolo infects Barry and sets him on a rage rampage, everyone is in danger, and the only one who can stop him is the Arrow. Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) is furious when Eddie (Rick Cosnett) tries to get a task force to stop The Flash; Joe and Dr. Wells (Tom Cavanagh) agree the Arrow is a bad influence on Barry; and Caitlin and Cisco deal with a new team in S.T.A.R. Labs.

 

[metaphysician]

I'm still vaguely wondering what grounds Thawne would even have for wanting to "stop" the Flash. To date, nothing that could even slightly reliably be tied to the Flash's activities is a crime. . . while you most definitely could tie the Flash to numerous instances of saving peoples' lives from certain death.

 

[godisawesome]

Perhaps Eddie tries to help Joe out on his case and makes that assumption about "man in a ball of lightening" being a limited suspect pool...

If they wanted to make Eddie antagonistic while maintaining that nice guy portrayal they've got, him pursuing the number one suspect in Nora Allen's murder might make sense. Especially of he is revealed to be a variation of Malcolm Thawne from the comics and have a reason to want to find her killer...

 

[Eni]

I am curious about how much Barry has to be "dumbed down" in both mind and powers during this episode for Olli not to look rather useless.

I wish the Flash were the series that had come first, then we most likely wouldn't have to worry about this...

 

[terry78]

They have him kinda awestruck and goofy from what I saw in the trailer earlier. Almost Wally West-ish.

 

[rashad]

The Flash - Flash vs Arrow Trailer
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[JC00]

I am curious about how much Barry has to be "dumbed down" in both mind and powers during this episode for Olli not to look rather useless.

I wish the Flash were the series that had come first, then we most likely wouldn't have to worry about this...

Speak for yourself.

Arrow coming before Flash is somewhat faithful to the comics. Oliver Queen was a character for 15 years before Barry Allen came along.

 

[luis4u]

I am curious about how much Barry has to be "dumbed down" in both mind and powers during this episode for Olli not to look rather useless.

The Bruce timm syndrome or effect..

 

[luis4u]

 

[Herolee10]

Well given that Barry's personality will be affected by the time he confronts Oliver, perhaps they could just say that Barry wasn't thinking as sharp as he normally would and thus adding to why Oliver is able to take him on.

 

[Tv's Phil]

What fun would it be if Barry just easily stopped Oliver at every turn? Or vice versa?
Suspend disbelief and enjoy.

 

[Eni]

Speak for yourself.

Arrow coming before Flash is somewhat faithful to the comics. Oliver Queen was a character for 15 years before Barry Allen came along.

You are partly right, GA first comic came out 1941, which is earlier than Barry's introduction as the Flash but the initial Flash comic was the first time published 1940, though it was Jay.

Still, this wasn't really what I had in mind when I made the comment.

What do you think about the part with the powers? There is no way someone with the power set of Barry should have any trouble whatsoever dealing with a guy who shoots arrows.

 

[Eni]

I am curious about how much Barry has to be "dumbed down" in both mind and powers during this episode for Olli not to look rather useless.

The Bruce timm syndrome or effect..

t:

Yeah, most likely. A pity, really.

 

[Eni]

Well given that Barry's personality will be affected by the time he confronts Oliver, perhaps they could just say that Barry wasn't thinking as sharp as he normally would and thus adding to why Oliver is able to take him on.

I see your point but still. Barry, even now in his early stage as the Flash, is way too powerful to believably lose against a normal joe who is using a bow and arrow.

Then again, he lost against a (no-superspeed-) robot during a sparring match...

 

[Eni]

What fun would it be if Barry just easily stopped Oliver at every turn? Or vice versa?
Suspend disbelief and enjoy.

Yeah, you are right, you can't enjoy this kind of stuff without disbelief.

I have to admit, though, that I am a way, way bigger Flash (especially Barry Allen) fan than GA and it just saddens me a bit to see him be dumbed down to fit the role as someone who wouldn't be able to easily hold is own against Olli.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I see your point but still. Barry, even now in his early stage as the Flash, is way too powerful to believably lose against a normal joe who is using a bow and arrow.

Then again, he lost against a (no-superspeed-) robot during a sparring match...

If the most powerful superhero in creation (Superman) can lose to a normal joe (Batman) because LOLPlot, then Barry can too.

 

[Eni]

If the most powerful superhero in creation (Superman) can lose to a normal joe (Batman) because LOLPlot, then Barry can too.

Totally see your point but that is exactly the problem and not a good excuse for them doing so.

Why make a character so powerful when you always have to find excuses for him to need to interact with other heroes seeing that he could easily take care of it on his own.

I think the whole Superman/Batman situation is just bad writing, even if you consider that Clark doesn't want to hurt Bruce, he would have a number of ways to take care of him without killing or damaging him any other way. The same goes for Barry and any other person. If you are that fast that everything and everyone freezes around you, how stands anybody a change to harm you in any way?

Saying that it is just like that so deal with it is a really lacking explaination and really bad writing. I am sure that you can deal with their team-up and make it believable that Barry somehow can't keep up with Olli but I fear they will choose some rather silly route to do so.

 

[Bathead]

How about waitnig to see what actually happens before you all go trashing the idea?

 

[Eni]

How about waitnig to see what actually happens before you all go trashing the idea?

Yeah, your're right, that is probably the most sensible thing to do. But speculations are fun... well, or not so much if you get all worked up over a comic TV show like I am currently doing.

 

[Grommers]

I'm always confused how people do not suspend disbelief in these situations - if somebody like Flash existed they would die instantly from the speed, if you are willing to suspend the science - i think you can suspend the belief that Barry has flaws in terms of his work ethic on the field, and usually makes up for it with his speed.

Where as Arrow would learn how much timing etc would matter in everything he does - because he wouldn't be allowed to make the same mistakes Barry does, I look at it like this - with Barry's power's he's able to take more risks - where as Arrow, is a no-risk kind of guy, because he has no other choice, he has to be on point with everything he does - flash doesn't, he's able to make multiple mistakes, and still recover.

Not necessarily arguing that the flash wouldn't win the fight, because I mean realistically he'd just have to run away and charge at him at a blinding speed that Ollie couldn't defend against - but at least in my eyes when I look at them this way, it gives "some" credibility to Ollie.

 

[Eni]

I'm always confused how people do not suspend disbelief in these situations - if somebody like Flash existed they would die instantly from the speed, if you are willing to suspend the science - i think you can suspend the belief that Barry has flaws in terms of his work ethic on the field, and usually makes up for it with his speed.

Where as Arrow would learn how much timing etc would matter in everything he does - because he wouldn't be allowed to make the same mistakes Barry does, I look at it like this - with Barry's power's he's able to take more risks - where as Arrow, is a no-risk kind of guy, because he has no other choice, he has to be on point with everything he does - flash doesn't, he's able to make multiple mistakes, and still recover.

Not necessarily arguing that the flash wouldn't win the fight, because I mean realistically he'd just have to run away and charge at him at a blinding speed that Ollie couldn't defend against - but at least in my eyes when I look at them this way, it gives "some" credibility to Ollie.

I see where you are coming from but the Flash has the power to move fast enough that the world is freezing around him so I am not sure that any amount of good timing helps whatsoever.

But I am not disagreeing with you, I know that the Flash could not interact with any other superhero they have so far introduced in the TV universe would they not "downgrade" him somehow. It is just that I don't like how they try to get us to suspend our disbelief (I mean a stupid robot breaks his ribs, really?! *lol*). It is just not very good writing and that really isn't necesary.

 

[Grommers]

Totally agree - but my issue is everyone states what is wrong with those instances - but not how to fix them - let's be honest, the flash is a really cool idea, a super fast human being - well, but speed is a really interesting thing, because than theories of relativity really play into it - and it becomes much more than just "speed".

There really isn't a way to solve a hero like this unless they make him like..Captain America running speed...not "flash" speed.


He's a hard hero to balance - and it's why I was hoping they wouldn't have given his super powers so fast at near full potential - have him slowly get faster, so there's a big learning process, having his powers full blown, is like if Arrow was good guy arrow right off the bat.

 

[terry78]

Yeah, that is a good point. I griped about Arrow acting more like Batman, but remembered he's still young. He probably doesn't become good natured liberal Ollie until he gets older.

 

[Eni]

Totally agree - but my issue is everyone states what is wrong with those instances - but not how to fix them - let's be honest, the flash is a really cool idea, a super fast human being - well, but speed is a really interesting thing, because than theories of relativity really play into it - and it becomes much more than just "speed".

There really isn't a way to solve a hero like this unless they make him like..Captain America running speed...not "flash" speed.


He's a hard hero to balance - and it's why I was hoping they wouldn't have given his super powers so fast at near full potential - have him slowly get faster, so there's a big learning process, having his powers full blown, is like if Arrow was good guy arrow right off the bat.

Yeah, a learning curve is important but I think regarding the TV show they did introduce them that quickly because they wanted to show the network how cool of a hero he could be. They haven't been sure for a while whether they would really even get a whole season and it take that this is most likely the reason.

Though it doesn't go along with the comics, where Barry more or less had a seemingly subconcious understanding of his powers and was able to handle than better than Grant's Barry does. Still, I understand that it is probably more interesting for a TV show to offer the watchers how he is finding his footing with his new abilities and that this also offers much more possiblities for jokes.

Regarding offering a solution to the problem, I would say that is pretty hard but not impossible. Me and you aren't professional writers, so I don't expect from either of us to come up with anything just like that. It is different for that guys though.

One possible way for Olli to have more of a chance against Barry in the upcoming double episode is for the Flash to get influenced by Rainboy Raider (or Chroma, whatever) and thus cause him to act irrational. Still, even then it is quite far fetched that a guy who is, if we really look at it, is doing nothing more than shooting sticks and fighting in slow-motion, expect he gets totally smashed by Roy's infulence and really can't think straight at all.

I just don't like how everybody says that you have to overlook something like those unrealistic outcomes of such uneven matchen. Flash, Superman, Shazam, etc are all great characters and just because they are crazy strong shouldn't be an excuse for lazy writing because I know that you can write good and believable stories with them. It has been done before, after all.

 

[Eni]

Yeah, that is a good point. I griped about Arrow acting more like Batman, but remembered he's still young. He probably doesn't become good natured liberal Ollie until he gets older.

Yes, totally, you can see a big change already between season one to season three Olli. He is much better when it comes to trusting people and letting them close. Bruce still has problems with that in his mid forties.