The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 22 "Infantino Street"

[KillerMcQueen]

What if Savitar didn't kill Iris at all? KF expressed doubt that Savitar could go through with it, maybe Savitar staged it to ensure Barry thinks Iris is dead long enough for Savitar to be created. Perhaps something Barry's done to try and change the timeline has changed Savitar's willingness to actually kill her.

 

[zenith16]

yes, I to am beginning to suspect that H.R. did it on purpose as part of a plan, but still think he was more or less working alone... at least in terms of the main team, away

he may have made plans with earth 2 team on the side, unbeknown to Cisco an others (hence putting on the act for Cisco about how he screwed up)

I think if such a switch was made it was before they even sent her to earth 2 and she actually stays disguised as H.R., an it was H.R. disguised as her who went to earth 2 (so it was Iris pretending to be H.R. who gave away the location) but it might have been just him an Iris who knew about it

I don't know about you. we keep saying both the universe and time ( thre latter acting like the final destination movie's version of death) are acting against barry and the star labs team.


but in show it's their own stupidness. As we well know waiting at the gate in earth 2 star labs, wiping barry memory when they should just Exclude him from meetings and let him do his own thing for the time being.

and as Darth made clear some one should have clicked with dampener being mentioned when they found out the layout of argus and saw there was meta human power dampener. and they all sat there and let barry yap about stealing a generator for the speed force bazooka.


Joe should just had his police department take iris to a place where he doesn't know til this was over . certain police station's have something called threat assessment for when their police detective's that threatened and their family are in danger .

they Also have a similar thing criminal mind;s beyond borders with unite chief jack garrets family which is freaking large for a nuclear family these day 3 son and 4 daughters . the show just eneded show this

and there's Sam hanner (LL cool J) in NCIS LA that wife ( she was formerly a C.i.a agent ) got killed Despite his own Agency's << ( I mean an organization) protocol to protect his family of which he has son and daughter and one supposedly adopted kid beside those two. but it work for two session's til this season this year.



it clear what the issue is they ain't bright. they just ain't bright.

 

[metaphysician]

With power dampeners? I never thought of this, although the characters would have had to come up with the plan without Barry knowing.

Eh, the "trick the heroes into revealing it" would still be an option. bad place, Savitar can travel through time, he could theoretically loop himself forward and find out where they hid her, from the future.

As for the Argus facility. . . they didn't outright say it, but I think they've shown enough to prove it wouldn't have worked. Even if the suppressor would negate Savitar's superspeed, it wouldn't turn off his armor. You know, the armor that was capable of kicking Wally's ash without Savitar even in it. You'd just have Savitar remote pilot his suit into the building, effortlessly ignoring and killing everyone in his way, then smash the power suppressor.

 

[zenith16]

What if Savitar didn't kill Iris at all? KF expressed doubt that Savitar could go through with it, maybe Savitar staged it to ensure Barry thinks Iris is dead long enough for Savitar to be created. Perhaps something Barry's done to try and change the timeline has changed Savitar's willingness to actually kill her.

well savitar did say certain conditions need to be met. he didn't say when but they need to be met.

Yet it seem's all he care's about as he says besides his becoming god comments, is that he wanted barry in despair for it all to happen and Barry get really stupid in that mode, in this show . Stupider then usual .

 

[zenith16]

Eh, the "trick the heroes into revealing it" would still be an option. bad place, Savitar can travel through time, he could theoretically loop himself forward and find out where they hid her, from the future.

As for the Argus facility. . . they didn't outright say it, but I think they've shown enough to prove it wouldn't have worked. Even if the suppressor would negate Savitar's superspeed, it wouldn't turn off his armor. You know, the armor that was capable of kicking Wally's ash without Savitar even in it. You'd just have Savitar remote pilot his suit into the building, effortlessly ignoring and killing everyone in his way, then smash the power suppressor.

lol the point is barry was too busy yapping about stealing the generator for the speed bazooka to care , that's how dense he is in this show.


all they had to do was let barry leave the room, and build their own . while he went robbing. too bad they are dense them selves.

seriously plan with out him and keep your mouths shut, when he's around. star labs is huge, there has to be a place to put a device like that where he can't find it.

 

[Syncos]

Eh, the "trick the heroes into revealing it" would still be an option. bad place, Savitar can travel through time, he could theoretically loop himself forward and find out where they hid her, from the future.

As for the Argus facility. . . they didn't outright say it, but I think they've shown enough to prove it wouldn't have worked. Even if the suppressor would negate Savitar's superspeed, it wouldn't turn off his armor. You know, the armor that was capable of kicking Wally's ash without Savitar even in it. You'd just have Savitar remote pilot his suit into the building, effortlessly ignoring and killing everyone in his way, then smash the power suppressor.

The problem being that a dampener would only be a temporary solution. Can't risk putting Savitar in a prison only for him to get out and make sure events pan out the same way, but a week or month or year later.

The cannon was supposed to lock him away forever.

The biggest plot hole i'm really seeing right now, is that there's no way the Savitar that Future Barry beats is the same one he's been fighting. If he's already broken out of the prison, and has the solution to not be locked away, then it stands to reason he can't be put there again.

Otherwise it's a bootstrap paradox and infinite loop. Savitar isn't actually being locked away in a prison forever, he's just being sent back in time from that point to start the loop over again.

 

[zenith16]

The problem being that a dampener would only be a temporary solution. Can't risk putting Savitar in a prison only for him to get out and make sure events pan out the same way, but a week or month or year later.

The cannon was supposed to lock him away forever.

Ofcourse the meta human dampener's temporary. The point is for Barry not to know about it since he was so hyped about his big heist with snart though and him know has savitar know. so let him go and get working it.

The biggest plot hole i'm really seeing right now, is that there's no way the Savitar that Future Barry beats is the same one he's been fighting. If he's already broken out of the prison, and has the solution to not be locked away, then it stands to reason he can't be put there again.

hmmm the biggest plot hole was the whole lets mind wipe him and when barry was fixed they let him see the speed force cbazooka . the point is they need to exclude him. they hear his voice smiply keep him out of your own plans to save iris . he has his you have yours . leave him out of yours.

Otherwise it's a bootstrap paradox and infinite loop. Savitar isn't actually being locked away in a prison forever, he's just being sent back in time from that point to start the loop over again.

you know you just put up the most important point here. and it was talk about before with my self a another poster. we don't know what future barry did be sides finding H.R's current girl friend scientist 5 year later.

the thing that was made clear is they put savitar into a crystal. they didn't say if future barry him self used a bazooka . but more importantly lets say it was similar.


Savitar was just locked in crystal . so some one had to make the stupid mistake of sending through time to ancient Egypt. And that must have been future Barry. why didn't he do what thawn did with the spear of destiny in legends and drop that crystal a pit like collider that was like the sun which he had build him with the people of star labs?


if he can't go to the sun, him self via the legend's with their ship and missiles to send the crystal there cause he can't think of it . why is it only the villain think of this?


But barry and Oliver do thing's that will happen to make absolutely sure it'll bite them in the arse?

 

[Syncos]

I almost would have preferred if they'd just embraced the paradox nature of Savitar and had him have no beginning. No time remnant sadfaces. He exists because he has always and forever been stuck in this loop where he kills Iris, gets beaten by Flash, trapped in the speed force (only to begin the cycle anew) where he forced alchemy to mess with team flash, etc.

Technically everything still applies. Barry still trapped him in this endless prison. The endless prison just happens to be groundhog day. Where he's living out the same events over and over again. He has no beginning, and no end. Just a force of nature.

Could have hit home more the futility of fighting destiny. Even without any ill will, Savitar would have been just as locked in the sequence of events as Barry.

THEN! The resolution we were all looking for could have been Barry talking Savitar into changing events thus stopping himself from existing which could have been pretty powerful. I donno, thinking out loud.

 

[Wildcard]

I almost would have preferred if they'd just embraced the paradox nature of Savitar and had him have no beginning. No time remnant sadfaces. He exists because he has always and forever been stuck in this loop where he kills Iris, gets beaten by Flash, trapped in the speed force (only to begin the cycle anew) where he forced alchemy to mess with team flash, etc.

Technically everything still applies. Barry still trapped him in this endless prison. The endless prison just happens to be groundhog day. Where he's living out the same events over and over again. He has no beginning, and no end. Just a force of nature.

Could have hit home more the futility of fighting destiny. Even without any ill will, Savitar would have been just as locked in the sequence of events as Barry.

THEN! The resolution we were all looking for could have been Barry talking Savitar into changing events thus stopping himself from existing which could have been pretty powerful. I donno, thinking out loud.

This makes way too much sense for them to have followed that route. I'm convinced they deliberately wanted to craft the most confusing story possible, even if a lot of elements of it don't quite sync up together.

 

[Avenging Angel]

If she didn't die then the emotional punch of that final scene was for nothing but a cheap gimmick.

 

[Dark Raven]

Where was Julian this episode? Why did he suddenly decide to disappear when all hands on deck are needed, given the urgency of the situation? Was he off nursing a broken heart?

 

[Batmannerism]

I almost would have preferred if they'd just embraced the paradox nature of Savitar and had him have no beginning. No time remnant sadfaces. He exists because he has always and forever been stuck in this loop where he kills Iris, gets beaten by Flash, trapped in the speed force (only to begin the cycle anew) where he forced alchemy to mess with team flash, etc.

Technically everything still applies. Barry still trapped him in this endless prison. The endless prison just happens to be groundhog day. Where he's living out the same events over and over again. He has no beginning, and no end. Just a force of nature.

Could have hit home more the futility of fighting destiny. Even without any ill will, Savitar would have been just as locked in the sequence of events as Barry.

THEN! The resolution we were all looking for could have been Barry talking Savitar into changing events thus stopping himself from existing which could have been pretty powerful. I donno, thinking out loud.

Sadly, that would make way too much sense - and be a great ending, where they beat the bad guy and learn something at the same time. But instead we'll probably get some convoluted ********.

 

[TheFuture]

If she didn't die then the emotional punch of that final scene was for nothing but a cheap gimmick.

That's it in a nutshell, though it's something that has become a regular tactic on the big and small screen. Death has become trivial now.

 

[stillanerd]

I almost would have preferred if they'd just embraced the paradox nature of Savitar and had him have no beginning. No time remnant sadfaces. He exists because he has always and forever been stuck in this loop where he kills Iris, gets beaten by Flash, trapped in the speed force (only to begin the cycle anew) where he forced alchemy to mess with team flash, etc.

Technically everything still applies. Barry still trapped him in this endless prison. The endless prison just happens to be groundhog day. Where he's living out the same events over and over again. He has no beginning, and no end. Just a force of nature.

Could have hit home more the futility of fighting destiny. Even without any ill will, Savitar would have been just as locked in the sequence of events as Barry.

THEN! The resolution we were all looking for could have been Barry talking Savitar into changing events thus stopping himself from existing which could have been pretty powerful. I donno, thinking out loud.

Or the other option would be Barry "gives up" by deciding not to create time remnants to try and stop Savitar. After all, it was his future self creating time remnants which gave "birth" to Savitar in the first place. So if Barry just surrenders, decides to let Savitar "win," to "surrender to destiny" instead of fighting it like Barry's been trying to do all season, then Savitar ceases to exist, everything he does is erased, and Barry wins.

 

[<(o_o)>]

Maybe Barry himself could go into the speedforce preventing Savatar from ever being created.

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe Barry himself could go into the speedforce preventing Savatar from ever being created.

But he was there earlier in the season when he went to rescue Wally. That didn't prevent Savitar from being created.

 

[Avenging Angel]

That's it in a nutshell, though it's something that has become a regular tactic on the big and small screen. Death has become trivial now.

I don't really understand how killing off someone who is useless is a bad thing. HR taking her place is ludicrous. Death means nothing anymore, all this build and oh, uh, JUST kidding.

 

[Syncos]

I don't really understand how killing off someone who is useless is a bad thing. HR taking her place is ludicrous. Death means nothing anymore, all this build and oh, uh, JUST kidding.

HR is the MOST useless. So killing him should be ideal. They'll just fish for another Wells anyway.

 

[Daemain]

The Flash 3x23 Sneak Peak "Finish Line" Season 3 Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upJ3-4Xj_VY

 

[Avenging Angel]

HR is the MOST useless. So killing him should be ideal. They'll just fish for another Wells anyway.

No he isn't. He actually offered ideas to the team and tried his best. Iris stands around star labs doing and offering nothing. The writers shoehorn her into situations just for the sake of having her there. She is the most useless still.

 

[legendkillin]

HR is the MOST useless. So killing him should be ideal. They'll just fish for another Wells anyway.

HR knew he wasn't the smartest or helpful in the heat of battle. That is what made him likable for me. He encouraged other characters to be their best.

 

[Syncos]

No he isn't. He actually offered ideas to the team and tried his best. Iris stands around star labs doing and offering nothing. The writers shoehorn her into situations just for the sake of having her there. She is the most useless still.

Waiting for someone to come up with an idea, and then finishing the sentence with them doesn't equal having the idea yourself. The only thing he actually contributed with was "turning star labs into a museum" thing, which was pointless, never brought up again, and a waste of time. And being a muse for Tracy.

His sacrifice was the first thing he did that wasn't self serving.

Iris is the rational one. She's the one who can talk sense into Barry, when he wants to hear it or not.

HR knew he wasn't the smartest or helpful in the heat of battle. That is what made him likable for me. He encouraged other characters to be their best.

HR was possibly the most human character. Entirely self serving. Everything he did was to manipulate people into protecting him and keeping him around. Which is realistic. If you're a coward, and you're good at manipulation. It's the way to go. I actually liked him for this.

That being said, his sacrifice is the only thing left for his character. His redemption from coward to hero.

Iris is still relatively unexplored. She has a lot of room to grow as a character if the writers ever give her the chance.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Iris is a pretty, that's it. She does nothing for me aside from being attached to Barry as a function, just a damsel in distress. The typical trope. Anyone on Team Flash can give Barry emotional support, that doesn't make her useful, that just means the writers have an odd obsession with her that needs to be dropped.

HR has more humanity than that. He's not unlikable and all that self-serving. And he did offer some ideas which were useful when the team called for them. Tom can play Harry, that's fine but HR wasn't a vile character. Iris and Barry were laughing shortly after the funeral.