The general Barry Allen vs Wally West thread

Discussion in 'Justice League' started by Mightyally, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. Mightyally

    Mightyally Mr Arcade

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    General speculation/discussion about Barry or Wally for the Justice League movies.
    What´s the differences? What´s your opinion?

    Powers, personality, relations to other JL charachters, how to introduce Barry or Wally, is anyone better than the other? etc...
     
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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  2. Mondragon

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    In the end they'll be building this character from scratch, and picking and choosing elements that work from all Flashes.

    As far as name, if they call the character Barry Allen, Wally West or Jay Garrick is irrelevant to general audience who would not care or know the difference.
    The one sway is since they are developing Barry Allen for TV they may just go with that.

    As far as character development they will probably want Barry's origin, Wally's origin is moronic, potentially one of the stupidest in comics, Jays is pretty weak too.

    They'd probably want Barry's CSI day job too, it's potentially the most interesting.

    As for personality; it might depend on which GL they play him off in a possible JL, if its the more tightwad military John Stewart than they can go with the jokey impulsive Wally/Bart amalgam from the cartoon.
    If they go with the more reckless cocky Hal Jordan, than they should go with more o.c.d. like focused Barry personality.
    What's nice is either one can bring the wide-eyed every-man who from his pov finds himself among "gods" then realizes he is one of them. Although Barry lends himself more to this unassuming pov.

    Girlfriend/ love interest, which one had the inquisitive reporter girlfriend? Again they seem pretty interchangeable, It probably doesn't make a difference. Although Iris West having a nephew would help if they did eventually want to introduce a new imitation Flash that way, but that's pretty irrelevant.

    It's not like it's set up so he can just leave someone the mask and the cave, or pass along a ring. he's got to "accidentally" get the same fluke powers[LOL]

    They really are going to have to rework that crap. Either he's intentionally trying to recreate the event, or he's somehow forced into someone else's experiment. Which they might even use for the first guy.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  3. cleverusername8

    cleverusername8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all of your points. It's almost guaranteed that they will use Barry's name and face (probably costume as well) as well as his origin and daily life. His relationship to the Rogues also give him better potential for a solo movie series if they'll pursue that. Wally also fought many of the Rogues, but the group came to be during Barry's Flash tenure.

    Your assessment of the personality is spot on as well. New 52 Barry seems to have acquired a bit of Wally's typical jokeyness for the lack of a better word. He's got it under control, but he does seem a bit more lighthearted than before.

    Speaking of New 52, that's probably the strongest evidence towards DC pursuing Barry for a movie. In the new series of comics, Wally is currently nowhere to be found. In recent media, Barry has had more of a presence than he ever has (Young Justice, Injustice: Gods Among Us, Justice League Doom, and Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox). The same goes for Hal on all of those fronts. Those two characters are making a crazy huge comeback in involvement with current DC stories so it seems pretty clear that they'll be the ones to round out the JL movie roster. It wouldn't make sense any other way.

    My personal perspective on all of this is that Barry is the best fit because the typical view of the Justice League includes post-Jay Flashes. Throwing Wally in that spot right off the bat would be a disservice to both characters since much of Wally's time as Flash revolves around Barry's example and legacy which Wally tries to live up to. It's what makes the character interesting. Plus, I'm a sucker for continuity. In JLU when I found out it was Wally under the mask in that show, I was thrown for a loop. The weirdest part about it is that I didn't know much of anything about the Flash family. All I thought after seeing that for the first time was "Since when is his name Wally? And I thought he was blonde?" Ever since I have been unable to think of Wally as THE definitive Flash.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  4. brainchild81

    brainchild81 THE MASTER BUILDER

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    I grew up w/Barry, but I'm partial to Wally because of JLU. Both are good characters tho& the GA won't care which one is used.
     
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  5. Llama_Shepherd

    Llama_Shepherd Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really bothered which Flash is used, as long as they pair him (or rather his personality) with the right GL (or GL personality), which would preferably be:
    Jay and Alan
    Barry and Hal
    Wally and Kyle
    Bart and John
     
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  6. Mightyally

    Mightyally Mr Arcade

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    I wrote this a while back. Pls don´t cut me in half but what IF they did this, would you approve?

    We go back in time to when Flash = Barry Allen, he is like the first superhero, much like cap in WW2. We get the origin of his powers, some mission/action, what he does for a living and how famous he was etc.
    Then the Kid Flash W.W comes along and we learn some about him and get the dynamic between the 2.

    In the end, Barry actually dies (of a wound beyond healing) and gives the mask to W.W

    W.W: "I need to take you to the hospital"
    B.A: "Nah #cough#...You aren´t gonna out run this one kid. The only thing running out today is me. You can´t beat me today Wally."
    W.W "If I only was faster I could have prevented all this"
    B.A "Nah it´s not your fault kid. It´s not about always being first you know, it´s about being there, making a difference. As we did today. Now comes the time for you to make that difference." #hands over his mask#
    W.W: But I can´t do it alone!"
    B.A: "You´ll not have to"
    W.W "What do you mean Barry, who do yo..?"
    B.A:#Nothing# (dead)

    After that we see him at home packing away Barry´s old suit. Suddenly he drops it next his own on the bed.
    He silently stands still and we can see Barry´s suit now lying next to his own Kid-Flash one. We hear the TV for a while, nothing special though.
    W.W looks outside with an empty look at the world. The sun is shining through the glass and some kids are playing just outside.

    TV: "Breaking News!" A robber on Highway 43 is currently endangering the lives of..."

    #Shwoosh# W.W is gone, leaving only the Kid Flash suit on the bed. Before you know it the credits start roling down.

    In the after credit scene we could see MoS and/or Batman looking at the TV. Then we hear "Breaking News! A robber on Highway 43 is currently endangering the lives of hundreds as he" and on the screen we actually see Wally stoping the robber. Then we see MoS and Batman smile at the same time in the reflection of the TV glass.
     
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  7. cleverusername8

    cleverusername8 Well-Known Member

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    That may be alright for a Flash sequel, but the first Flash solo and the first Justice League should have Barry in my opinion. He gets the ball rolling for what the Flash is and will become and would pave the way well for Wally if his death should fall at the end of Flash solo #2 letting Wally join in for Justice League 2.

    But frankly the 'death of a hero then passing down the legacy' thing has been seen quite a bit and may be a bit cliche by now. It's very possible that WB will forego this altogether and leave Barry as Flash forever. They really have no need for Wally since he's not big in the comics anymore and DC won't be making any money off of him.

    Also, I'm in favor of what Llama Shepherd said.
     
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  8. ЯɘvlveR

    ЯɘvlveR danneB

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    Ii'm not interested in john stewart or wally west yet. that's the beauty with those characters in particular. in casting hal and barry you have the luxury of killing them off and replacing them with new characters and new actors when some actors, whoever they end up being, get tired of playing the role. they could die heroically on film and the others can take up the mantle.
     
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  9. Spider-Kurt!

    Spider-Kurt! Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be kinda cool if a Flash or Justice League sequel placed Barry Allen in another dimention (the future?) where Wally West is the Flash. Maybe John Stewart could be it's Green Lantern if they use Hal Jordan in the main DCU roster.
     
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  10. Lantern Venom

    Lantern Venom Lego SUCKS

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    It's not really a question of who will be used. Flash will be Barry Allen. For JLA to have the best chance of success, WB will want the most famous members and most famous versions of those members. As much as I like Wally, his chances of being in this are next to zero.
     
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  11. Rorschach2012

    Rorschach2012 I'll Cancel the Pizzas

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    I'm guessing it'll be Barry. A funnier Barry though. If the same Flash from the tv show is used in the movies, the tv show will have plenty of time to introduce Wally in case they want to kill Barry off down the line.
     
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  12. cleverusername8

    cleverusername8 Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly enough, the Flash TV series from the 90's that starred Barry introduced Iris at the start and then sent her off to a foreign country only to ignore her for most of the time from that point on. I wonder if the new series/movies will do something similar so that the Wests are 100% absent in the new Allen future of the Flash family (I'm sure they'll let Bart continue to tag along).

    Also of note, the DC Universe Online game booted Wally from the mix as well. Apparently he was present in the tie-in comics that got little to no traction but when the game came out, adult Flash was Barry, "original" Flash was Jay, and Kid Flash was Bart. Wally was not in the picture.

    Then Young Justice killed the character in its last aired episode. Brandon Vietti - one of the creative leads - stated on Twitter that Wally was intended to stay dead even if the show continued. They planned for his death from the beginning and planned to make it permanent unlike other apparent deaths that took place.

    I think the message is becoming fairly clear that DC and WB are turning their backs on the Wally/Kyle Rayner generation of Flash and Green Lantern characters. We're looking at a future of Hal (or maybe John) and Barry for a long time to come.
     
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  13. Lantern Venom

    Lantern Venom Lego SUCKS

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    Wally still doesn't have a place in the New 52 and Kyle is a White Lantern. There is no way WB is going to try and sell the GA those two as part of DC's Big 5 in live action.
     
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  14. Kevin Smith

    Kevin Smith Well-Known Member

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    I prefer Barry Allen as The Flash and never liked that they killed him off in the comics, although I thought his death was handled decently, even though the writer himself didn't agree with the decision. It was just kind of ridiculous to me when they were just going to have Wally West become like a Barry Allen imitation later on, like when they gave him a reporter girlfriend/wife like Barry Allen had, twins like Barry Allen had, a police job and secret identity like Barry Allen had, a Reverse Flash like Barry Allen had, an upped power level like Barry Allen had, etc, they made someone who was already essentially a "mini me" version of Barry Allen to begin with MORE of a Barry Allen imitation, IMO. (It was bad enough he had a miniature origin of Barry's and wore his costume to begin with)

    And while I enjoyed the JL/JLU show, The Flash on there is very very far from the Wally West of the comics. The JL/JLU Flash is Wally West in name and appearance only, he has Barry Allen's origin and story arc and story/character elements, he has Barry Allen's place in the JLA, etc....and his personality is closer to that of Impulse's. However I enjoyed the show for what it was, but DC has been known to combine their characters a lot in alternate media.

    (They did a similar thing with Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner in the DCAU, even John Stewart in JL/JLU has many of Hal Jordan's story elements)

    Anyway, not many people realize this about the animated shows and consider the animated shows to be the "true" versions when in fact they are not, and will say how they prefer Wally to Barry, Kyle to Hal, etc, when the reasons they prefer those characters are because they elements they perceive to belong to them that they like actually belong to Barry Allen and Hal Jordan, so in actuality they would prefer Barry Allen and Hal Jordan, but they just don't know it because they are unfamiliar with them and are unable to recognize their story elements being placed within Wally West and Kyle Rayner (and even John Stewart).

    So that is why I prefer Barry Allen pretty much for one thing. He is the original as far as The Flash as we know him is concerned ("iconic" version), and he is the best, IMO.

    Anyway, any dynamic you get with Wally Flash in the JL/JLU show, you can just as easily also get with Barry Allen as The Flash. The dynamic is pretty interchangeable as the JL/JLU Flash didn't mirror his comic counterpart much.
     
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  15. CLARKY

    CLARKY Well-Known Member

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    There's no point in discussing this, I think. Mostly because all complains/letters/fans voicing their love for Wally DID NOT CHANGE ANYTHING to the whole thing. Obviously, and since quite a lot of time, studios are just doing what they wantwith what they call franchises and what we call characters. They re-introduce Barry, they erased Wally, could the message be more clear? Wally is, sadly sadly, gone. Even ifhe comes back in the comics, he would at best manage to be a character in the flash universe but he won't be Flash anymore. So for me, the movie thing.... it is not open for debate, they will go with Barry. Best way to open the franchise and capitalize on it to the max. :csad:
     
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  16. Mightyally

    Mightyally Mr Arcade

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    I hear you buddy. Everything points towards Barry. That doesn´t mean there is no one who wants Wally or can see different pros and cons in each charachter which could be used in different ways. There is no harm in discussing things that aren´t likely to happen, but we don´t know anything. Some ppl think he might be introduced later and ppl like me would like to be a little surprised and have both. See post #6.

    I just think it would be interesting to discuss the different charachters. One might also learn something because everyone has their own opinions and views on the Flash and his part in JL.

    Imo there wouldn´t be any problems with Wally. I think they could connect that charachter very well to the Justice League movie but there are elements of Barry that I really like for the solo Flash movies.
     
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  17. cleverusername8

    cleverusername8 Well-Known Member

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    #17
  18. Lantern Venom

    Lantern Venom Lego SUCKS

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    In the first two arcs of the NU52 comics, Barry and Hal's dialogue provided the comic relief. I'm guessing that is how the JL movie will play out, too.
     
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  19. TommyJones1945

    TommyJones1945 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much what a lot of people here said. We look forward to a future of Barry as the definitive flash. Heck, even in instances where his name isn't needed we are told its Barry. i.e. Injustice.
     
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  20. KRYPTON INC.

    KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    Is the passing the torch thing really a "cliche" thing for superhero movies so far? Maybe TDKR... But even then it's A. Somewhat controversial amongst fans and B. Not the thrust of the film until the final shot you could argue.


    As for whom shall be The Flash? I can take either as I've always liked both, even if I am firmly in the "Barry should have been kept deceased" camp. To my mind Barry is indeed like everybody's favorite goofy young Uncle. Wally is like everybody's favorite goofy older nephew. Take from that what you will.
     
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  21. Rorschach2012

    Rorschach2012 I'll Cancel the Pizzas

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    I want Barry, but I think he should die and pass the torch to Wally as long as the actor playing Wally is as likable as whoever plays Barry
     
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  22. nygma619

    nygma619 Well-Known Member

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    Brandon Vietti on twitter simply said that Wally was "gone" (which doesn't necessarily mean dead). He NEVER stated when this was planned, or that this "death" (if it actually was intended to be an actual death) was ever intended to be permanent.
     
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  23. mace1

    mace1 Well-Known Member

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    The New 52






    Wally West is Black in New 52!!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eBP3TzMfQs
     
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    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  24. B1-66ER

    B1-66ER Active Member

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    That clinches it for Barry for JL. Because if you cast a white guy for that role you will be called racist.

    Personally, I am sad for two reasons. For one, it's not that Wally is black, it's that he's a black juvenile delinquent from a bad family. Wow... way to challenge stereotypes there, DC. Keeping it classy as always.

    Also... the DCU now officially has more African-American characters than ginger characters. Where's the love for the gingers?! If you're going to replace a white character with a black one, why choose one of the few redheads?
     
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  25. Lantern Venom

    Lantern Venom Lego SUCKS

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    Barry's place in JL was clinched long before that. Barry appeared on Arrow, Barry is in the new DCAU movies, and he's got his own series coming to TV. Wally has been silent for a long time. If the Flash dynasty is introduced, it will be somewhere after the first JL movie.
     
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