The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 1

Discussion in 'DC Comics' started by Thread Manager, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. CrimsonMist

    CrimsonMist Registered

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    I really don't follow you. The whole "Batman is a curse" storyline has been told about as many times as the "Why Gotham Needs Batman" story. Not to mention, your interpretation of King's story as being about "Batman is a curse" is a little simple minded, no offense. My takeaway from King's run so far has been that Batman is confronted with the idea that there's more to living than just to uphold the vow he made the night his parents were killed, that up until that moment with Catwoman, the idea of being Batman and moving past his vow, was impossible. And a large portion of King's run has been about Bruce trying to reconcile that. I should point out here too that I'd rather read this kind of story, good or bad, than yet another "Villian blames Batman for every terrible thing!" story ala Tomasi's rather hackneyed Arkham Knight arc in Detective Comics. I for one am very excited for the Batman/Catwoman book, and since King is writing it in a 12 issue format, a format he excels in far better than long-form storytelling, I expect it to be better than the 20 some-odd issues he had left after 85.

    Regarding your second point, about the Batman/Catwoman story being done and gone once it's finished...that's comics. Continuity and "long lasting changes" are a moving river. Once it changes, it changes again. Determining quality based on impact is a blind man's quest, because impact in comics NEVER last. With all due respect, your posts over the months indicate to me nothing more than a narrow minded hate read of King's Batman. That's fine, I guess, but it's something I'll never quite understand.

    Anyways, I doubt Bendis is going to take over Batman but who knows. But based on his Walmart Batman story, which should be hitting comic shops later this year, I wouldn't be opposed to it. He writes a very affable, Bronze Age Batman, and the story so far has been wonderfully entertaining.
     
  2. Babillygunn

    Babillygunn Tag team champion

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    I feel toward Bendis like Mani does toward King!

    Bendis has taken everything Tomasi did with Superman to make it one of the Crown Jewels of Rebirth and crapped on it. Keep him as far away from the Bat as possible.
     
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  3. Slade W

    Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    I really enjoyed the latest Deathstroke issue. It was interesting seeing how everyone reacted to his death. IMO, Deathstroke has been one of the very best rebirth runs, if not the best. Superman written by Tomasi and Super Sons are its closest competition for me (perhaps there are some others that are escaping me ATM).
     
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  4. CrimsonMist

    CrimsonMist Registered

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    ::shrugs::

    Superman Reborn is one of my favorite Superman stories of probably the last decade, but I'm still loving what Bendis is doing with the books. Would you mind explaining what it is you don't like about it? Aside from aging up Jon (which I kiiiiiiinda understand), I don't really get why everyone has such a problem with Bendis. Everyone keeps hollering on about how he's ruining Superman, but fail to provide any reasons that, atleast to me, don't come off as petulant fanboy whining completely divorced from what's actually happening on the page.

    Also, I cannot stress this enough, but when Bendis' Walmart Batman book appears in comic shops in July, I STRONGLY recommend you check it out. Maybe since because he's limited to 12 pages every month he has to get more to the point, I don't know, but it's a very fun, well-written story.
     
  5. Mani-Man

    Mani-Man Registered

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    While i give Bendis a bit more leash, his problems should be pretty obvious to the eye.
    Bendis has the same problems as always, just this time he writes for Superman after fantastic groundwork has been done.

    That makes the typical bendis problems worse because it hurts that groundwork more than if he writes street level characters or for teams.

    -Pacing
    Some issues feel like they do nothing, then the next is paced like it woud fit into 3.
    His storys feel like they take forever while not getting going at all.
    Everything feels either rushed or like its on break.

    -Rogues Gallery
    He wanted to improve supermans rogues gallery, but who the hell remembers what most of them did so far?
    Their design is the one thing that makes them a bit memorable but otherwise they have not much going for them.

    -Lack of distinctive voice for his characters
    His writing style and feel, the way he writes characters is strangely inconsistent often to the point that when you just look at the speech bubbles, you dont know what the hell is going on.

    -Bendis is not a huge fan of continuity if its not his own
     
  6. Babillygunn

    Babillygunn Tag team champion

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    @CrimsonMist
    I’m not sure that I can answer your question without sounding like “petulant fanboy whining” as that is very subjective and opinions differ. If opposing views come across as petulant or whining, then that may be on the recipient as much as the proponent of the viewpoint. Still, I’ll give answering your question a shot.

    I think my biggest beef with Bendis is that he comes on the heels of Tomasi. We had been getting the best Superman work since All Star and they were fleshing out characters in interesting ways. In my opinion, Lois has historically been written in a one dimensional, borderline misogynistic way. I know that probably isn’t how most people see it, but let me explain. It’s almost like the men who write Lois have been unable to write a strong, assertive female character without making them rude, self absorbed, and snarky. Truth be told, most anyone would not want to be around someone who acted like the Lois of the 80s. That’s why I’ve always loved the Lois portrayed in All Star Superman. Instead of teasing and being rude to Clark, she stands up to the bullies who treat him with disrespect. She does this while excelling in her vocation. Her role as a reporter was an extension of her crusader personality. Tomasi took the character in an interesting direction by injecting a maternal aspect into the mix. Bendis jettisoned the whole thing and made her one dimensional again. She’s selfishly ambitious, abandoned her 10 year old son in space with a madman then hid her return from her husband so that she could jump start her career.

    I think my main problem with Bendis’ Superman writing has been the way he has treated the groundwork that Tomasi laid as an annoyance that he threw to the curb. As was said before very eloquently, Bendis doesn’t care for continuity unless it’s his own. Plus he hasn’t had an interesting villain story yet.
     
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  7. _Superman_

    _Superman_ Man Of Steel

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    That's because for the most part Bendis doesn't care about Superman's villain's. All he cares about is trying to push Rogol on the fans while destroying IMO everything that came before it. To me he ruined Jon Kent to the point that as I have said before I just hope he joins the Legion for a fresh start because Bendis ruined the Super-family bonding they had going on. I disagree with him wanting the classic suit back when I thought the Rebirth suit was perfect. And last all momentum Superman had after Rebirth Bendis just took it away by throwing away almost everything that happened from Rebirth. I was perfectly fine with New 52 Superman and I was happy with Rebirth but what Bendis did IMO just spit in the fans of both. Because Rebirth was respectful to the fans of New 52 and pre-flashpoint Superman. His run to me is slowly becoming almost like Chuck Austin's run. I just think he should've been allowed to only write one of the books not both.
     
  8. CrimsonMist

    CrimsonMist Registered

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    @Babillygunn, I totally respect your opinions as well as @Mani-Man's, especially for answering. So I very much appreciate it.

    Regarding "petulant fanboy whining", there's a difference between stating your opinion with thought and reason, and then there's making hyperbolic exaggerations about how creators hate certain characters and are destroying what came before and are spitting in the face of fans. The latter drives me up the wall. This is comics. These "controversies" come in waves. It's a big cycle like in wrestling. I've been reading comics too long to know better than to bug out like that.

    Tomasi's run on the character established a wonderful family dynamic with the Kents, and it was, for the most part, wonderful, if not a little too "apple pie". Bendis is now throwing conflict into that family dynamic. You need conflict to regain and maintain optimism and for me, what Bendis is doing is working. "Superman" is about Superman trying to hold on to his family and the character work has been phenomenal, especially with Superman himself. And what Bendis seems to be doing with Zod is too exciting for words. "Action Comics" is about Lois really being the character you think she should be. And in "Event Leviathan", that's on full display. It must be, because Greg Rucka wouldn't have agreed to come back to write her solo series otherwise. I will concede that sending Lois and Jon into space with Jor-El was perhaps a little too convenient an inciting plot point, but everything has worked out well so far as I'm concerned.

    I care not for continuity, so Bendis ignoring it doesn't bother me at all. Especially now, as continuity is in a totally weird place thanks to Superman Reborn and especially Doomsday Clock (Young Justice is a glaring example of that), but it would also explain why Bendis doesn't have his hands on Brainiac or Luthor at the moment, since Snyder's using them. Leviathan seems interesting, and I'm not so much interested in Rogal Zarr himself than I am in the circumstances surrounding him.

    Bendis is playing a long-game with his storytelling. In fact, that's what he always does. Until his run, or first major arcs are completed, I can only say we'll see what the pay off is. But what he's doing right now is keeping me entertained, and while the story may not be as great as it could be, the character development is too damn perfect. But I just don't see how Bendis is destroying Superman. I honestly can't.
     
  9. Slade W

    Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    Something I really like about Deathstroke Rebirth is that the supporting characters Wintergreen, Rose, Joseph, Adeline and Tanya Spears, among others are all likeable and/or interesting characters, IMO. Generally, I do not care about supporting characters in stories, but I am invested in most of them in Deathstroke Rebirth.
     
  10. Babillygunn

    Babillygunn Tag team champion

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    Color me shocked but Miller’s Superman Year One was outstanding so far. My only gripe would be that on a few occasions Miller gets a little crass which is out of place for a Superman story, but otherwise it’s darn near perfect.
     
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  11. flickchick85

    flickchick85 Mod of Might

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    As someone who felt like Miller getting Supes was my own karmic punishment for saying out loud that it couldn’t get worse than Bendis, I am shocked at your reaction, @Babillygunn . I’m now intrigued to see if your feelings continue with future installments.
     
  12. Babillygunn

    Babillygunn Tag team champion

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    I know right? I’m not a particularly huge Miller fan outside of Daredevil and I think we are on the same page regarding Bendis, but I was surprised pleasantly at S:YO
     
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  13. Mani-Man

    Mani-Man Registered

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    Oh yeah, im really surprised myself.
    I wasnt expecting something this good.
    It flows well and the characters feel nice, i was expecting something far more cynical and "angry".
    But this feels very nice and i had fun.
     
  14. Slade W

    Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    I have catching up to do with certain comics. Is Lex Luthor a villain again? If so, what caused him to revert back and in what comic was it?
     
  15. Gamma Goliath

    Gamma Goliath Engine of Destruction

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    Lex is a villain again, it was in a mini series by Scott snyder called Justice League: No Justice. A really fun read imo.
     
  16. Slade W

    Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    Thank you.
     
  17. NDX

    NDX Walking with Elias.

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    I actually liked Super-Lex. Thought it was a fun idea. I have not enjoyed Snyder's run in JL.
     
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  18. Slade W

    Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    I enjoyed him as a hero too. He is a very interesting character, and he was explored more as a hero, with him in different situations that you would normally get him in when he is a villain.
     
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  19. Babillygunn

    Babillygunn Tag team champion

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    Yeah put me down as one who liked Super Lex as well
    Also I am glad to hear of the Flash Forward series coming in September. Here’s hoping it does Wally well.

    To be honest, the JL’s handling of Wally post HiC, of their treatment of Oliver Queen and their disbanding of the Titans was not very endearing to the team. They come across as hypocrites, bullies and borderline fascist.
     
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  20. Mani-Man

    Mani-Man Registered

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    Who made Lex into a "hero" even? The writer deserves a lot credit because it was well done.
    I really liked the "good" guy Lex, i think your typical bad guy Lex thing gets a bit boring over time.
    I cant remember the last good Lex vs Superman in recent times, but then, im not that much of a superman reader so maybe i dont have the right angle for that.

    But yeah, i liked this direction of Luthor.
     
  21. Slade W

    Slade W "Who Is Slade?"

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    Geoff Johns in Forever Evil (which was from September 2013 to May 2014). It is a good story, I recommend it.
     
    #421 Slade W, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  22. Babillygunn

    Babillygunn Tag team champion

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    I absolutely LOVE Forever Evil
     
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  23. geetard

    geetard Rebirth

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  24. Tvar10

    Tvar10 Who the hell is Bucky?

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    So I'm wondering if someone could help me out a little. Just finished Batman 74 and had a few questions. Its not really a spoiler but I'll keep them in spoiler tags

    So the issue deals with Thomas talking to Bruce about a story he used to read when he was a child. I was under the impression that this was Flashpoint Thomas and regular Bruce from current continuity. Am I supposed to believe that Flashpoint Thomas on his world read the same book to his son that the current continuity Thomas read to current continuity Bruce? And then both Bruce's acted the same way toward it?

    I was under the impression that both worlds were different and not complete mirrors to each other. It seems odd to me that this story is based on a book both Thomas's read to both Bruce's and both Bruce's had the same reaction

    I feel like King bends a lot of things to fit into his stories
     
  25. Mani-Man

    Mani-Man Registered

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    I dont think they ever really thought about the details on the whole Multiverse thing.
    Its more a "what would happen if bruce died instead of his parents" What if clarks ship landed in russia"
    Its the "big" questions and not the small details like this.
     

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