The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Milk Tray Guy]

Absolutely. I would not consider an elseworlds story to be an event. It is a different animal. Kingdom Come is one of, if not my favorite stories ever written. But I wouldn’t call it an event. Neither is Dark Knight Returns or Gotham by Gaslight. I agree that continuity is essential. During elseworlds stories, the writers have the luxury of playing with house money because the stakes do not impact continuity. Good writers use that for the better. (See Mark Waid and Kingdom Come, or Tom King’s Mister Miracle/Omega Men). Others not so much (See Scott Snyder and Last Knight on Earth).

And yet weirdly DC/Marvel crossovers are often hailed as events, despite neither company counting them as main continuity (on one occasion I seem to remember one did, but not the other; maybe JLA/Avengers, or Marvel vs DC?).

 

[CrimsonMist]

Haha, I'm glad everyone likes my analogies. Anyone have a clue what the Arbor Day of Comic Book events might be?

I think the line between "event book" and "special book" can certainly get blurred. Kingdom Come and DKR are definitely special books. Even King's Mister Miracle or Batman/Catwoman (FINALLY COMING OUT IN DECEMBER!) are special books, whether they impact the main line or not.

I think that has more to do with the prestige of the talent behind the book and personal preference even then. Batman: Gotham Noir by Brubaker and Philips may not be a big deal, but as a fan of their work together it is to me. But something like Castle of the Bat is just kinda whatever.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I think the line between "event book" and "special book" can certainly get blurred. Kingdom Come and DKR are definitely special books. Even King's Mister Miracle or Batman/Catwoman (FINALLY COMING OUT IN DECEMBER!) are special books, whether they impact the main line or not.

Good point. I think some people definitely see the word 'event' as interchangeable with 'special' when talking about comics. Of course, perhaps buying that 'special book' was an event in itself for them

Stories that I would call 'special' but never 'events' include Throne of Atlantis, JLA: Year One, The Lords of Luck, and The Sandman, or to go outside of DC for a moment, Alan Moore's Marvelman Miracleman reboot. All works from creators at the top of their game (completely agree with you about the 'talent', btw), doing what they do best - telling very good stories, very well. Some of those stories feel as epic in their own way as some 'events'! Others don't. And that's fine. I don't want every story that I enjoy to be a breathtaking tour de force. Otherwise, where do we go from there, for the true 'events'?

 

[NDX]

And yet weirdly DC/Marvel crossovers are often hailed as events, despite neither company counting them as main continuity (on one occasion I seem to remember one did, but not the other; maybe JLA/Avengers, or Marvel vs DC?).

I think for a while DC had considered JLA/Avengers in continuity. That is a great book. I would love to see something like that again but Marvel seem adamante against crossovers of any kind anymore.

 

[Mani-Man]

I don’t know. “The Button” was pretty heavily promoted. I know it was supposed to be a lead up to Doomsday Clock but they bordered on promoting it as an event, even though it was a two issue team-up

Was it promoted in a "event" way? I dont remember.
But yeah, they did promote it like it was the next big thing when it was a team-up that leads up to Doomsday Clock.

Okay, that's interesting about The Button. Definitely a team-up, not an event in itself.

What about continuity? Going back to 'significant consequences' being a necessary part of an 'event' (if you agree with that), Elseworld-type stories to me don't really have that. They may shake things up on that particular 'Earth', but that Earth may be one we've seldom (if ever seen) before. So however much I might enjoy the story, the stakes aren't 'real' enough for it to qualify as an event (otherwise Kingdom Come would rank as my favourite event of all!).

Hm, that could be a thing too that makes the difference.
But how many of those huge "events" changed the continuity for long?
Do "events" only count if they have consequences for the multiverse or just Prime Earth?

Absolutely. I would not consider an elseworlds story to be an event. It is a different animal. Kingdom Come is one of, if not my favorite stories ever written. But I wouldn’t call it an event. Neither is Dark Knight Returns or Gotham by Gaslight. I agree that continuity is essential. During elseworlds stories, the writers have the luxury of playing with house money because the stakes do not impact continuity. Good writers use that for the better. (See Mark Waid and Kingdom Come, or Tom King’s Mister Miracle/Omega Men). Others not so much (See Scott Snyder and Last Knight on Earth).

Yeah i think Elseworld storys can easily run on that term and dont need to be called events.
I think "events" should always be considered that when they take place on Prime Earth.
Everything else can be a Elseworld story, because if we also call those things "events" then we would have 223453425346 a year. XD

I think for a while DC had considered JLA/Avengers in continuity. That is a great book. I would love to see something like that again but Marvel seem adamante against crossovers of any kind anymore.

If i remember correctly, not too long ago someone asked Jim Lee about it and he said that he thinks DC would be open to a crossover with marvel.
But honestly, i can do without...we already have way too much stuff to keep track.
Adding the Marvel universe would be cool for a moment, but i already dont know how many DC earths we have since Rebirth and all that.

I think Spawn still Aknowledges the crossover with Batman or did for a long time.
He had a Scar from one of Batmans batarangs for some time, if thats still the case...i dont know.
its been way too long since i read Spawn.

EDIT: Interesting that we talk about Events and stuff, just checked DC nation Twitter and they call Justice League: Endless Winter a nine-part event.
And Ron Marz one of the writers(as far as i can tell) said about it: "This is a big crossover story, with a lot of big visuals and classic characters."

 

[CrimsonMist]

EDIT: Interesting that we talk about Events and stuff, just checked DC nation Twitter and they call Justice League: Endless Winter a nine-part event.
And Ron Marz one of the writers(as far as i can tell) said about it: "This is a big crossover story, with a lot of big visuals and classic characters."

And it ends up derailing several books, including Flash and Justice League Dark. Which I suppose proposes another question: Do you prefer event books that are contained to their own books, or books that have tie-ins, or events that derail on goings like this and Night of the Monster Men?

SPEAKING OF EVENTS:

It looks like Bendis is off the Super books come December. Superman #28 and Action Comics #1028 are the final issues. And Bleeding Cool is yet again reporting that Mark Waid may very well be coming back to DC...

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

But how many of those huge "events" changed the continuity for long?

It varies, doesn't it. Crisis made changes that lasted a long time; Flashpoint, nowhere near as long, Armageddon 2001, not at all (IIRC). Convergence just seems to have been brushed under the carpet! I'm not sure how many significant changes remain after Metal (granted, I'm a trade reader so there's probably stuff going on I haven't caught up with yet).

Do "events" only count if they have consequences for the multiverse or just Prime Earth?

Good question. I'd say so long as the consequences effect Prime Earth in a significant way, even if the changes don't actually occur there. So taking the original Crisis as an example, if it had played out the same except that when it came down to those last five Earths, they didn't merge into one, but instead four were completely destroyed leaving just Earth One remaining, that would still count (I think). Although Earth One wouldn't have experienced any changes to itself, other worlds would be gone, along with friends that the Earth One heroes had shared adventures with in the past (and who we wouldn't see again). Of course, this would only work if Earth One retained their memories of those other worlds and heroes. Otherwise, I guess there wouldn't really be any consequences for Earth One... In which case it wouldn't count!

 

[flickchick85]

It looks like Bendis is off the Super books come December. Superman #28 and Action Comics #1028 are the final issues. And Bleeding Cool is yet again reporting that Mark Waid may very well be coming back to DC...

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

I think for a while DC had considered JLA/Avengers in continuity. That is a great book. I would love to see something like that again but Marvel seem adamante against crossovers of any kind anymore.

JLA/Avengers is in continuity in my head. Don’t care what either company says.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Which I suppose proposes another question: Do you prefer event books that are contained to their own books, or books that have tie-ins, or events that derail on goings like this and Night of the Monster Men?

When I buy events I buy the trades, which normally include all the relevant issues from whatever titles, so it doesn't really affect me one way or the other. But for someone who buys floppies I can see an event crossing over into titles you don't normally buy being really irritating, especially if you're on a budget. I can see existing storylines being shoved aside to make room for an event being extremely annoying too. It would certainly annoy me!


Edit: Sp

 

[Mani-Man]

And it ends up derailing several books, including Flash and Justice League Dark. Which I suppose proposes another question: Do you prefer event books that are contained to their own books, or books that have tie-ins, or events that derail on goings like this and Night of the Monster Men?

Does it, i dont know because i havent heard anything about endless winter...but i expect it to be some elseworld story...but i have no clue, just saw those teasers with batman and wonder woman.

I dont like the idea of someone derailing another teams current run, forcing them into a direction they dont want or havent planned...but then what is the purpose of events if they dont affect anything?

I think most importantly for me is if the story works, if its good enough then i can live with both, being contained on its own or affecting ongoing stuff.
I guess thats the thing with comics in General, if the storys work for us or not and how we want it to influence comics.

I dont think i have a preference, it comes down to the story.

SPEAKING OF EVENTS:

It looks like Bendis is off the Super books come December. Superman #28 and Action Comics #1028 are the final issues. And Bleeding Cool is yet again reporting that Mark Waid may very well be coming back to DC...

Would be good news all around.
Superman needs a new direction.
I do like some of the new characters...okay mostly their design, but overall i have lost so much interest in the man of steel.

It varies, doesn't it. Crisis made changes that lasted a long time; Flashpoint, nowhere near as long, Armageddon 2001, not at all (IIRC). Convergence just seems to have been brushed under the carpet! I'm not sure how many significant changes remain after Metal (granted, I'm a trade reader so there's probably stuff going on I haven't caught up with yet).

Where does Metal even run at?
I dont know if i asked that before, but i have no grasp of an idea where this all is.
Is that supposed to be prime earth, after snyders batman run?
A different earth? A different timeline on prime earth?
The man is so worried about telling some huge story that he loses himself in making the basics clear.

I have to be honest, i needed to freshen up on convergence because i forgot about 80% of it. XD
I guess like with everything bigger, DC looks at how people handle the stuff and then decide if it will be around for longer.
Its easy to lose track on what event meant something for longer. XD

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Can anyone please tell me who this green guy is on the bottom left?

Thank you.

 

[Mani-Man]

Can anyone please tell me who this green guy is on the bottom left?

Thank you.

Leaning out of the window here since i barely know anyone from Legion of Super-Heroes...could be Braniac 5.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Leaning out of the window here since i barely know anyone from Legion of Super-Heroes...could be Braniac 5.

Thanks... I looked him up on google images and he seems similar.
If anyone could confirm it that would be great.

 

[flickchick85]

Thanks... I looked him up on google images and he seems similar.
If anyone could confirm it that would be great.

I don't think it's Brainiac 5. I think he's got an "E" on his chest, so he might be the new Element Lad. I won't go within 10 ft. of a Bendis Legion book, so I can't confirm, though.

EDIT: Yeah, in this pic -

Brainiac 5 is in the middle, while this dude is off on the left. So definitely not Brainiac 5. Doesn't confirm Element Lad, but that would be my guess. Mainly because he's the only Legionairre I can think of that starts with "E," lol.

 

[Mani-Man]

I don't think it's Brainiac 5. I think he's got an "E" on his chest, so he might be the new Element Lad. I won't go within 10 ft. of a Bendis Legion book, so I can't confirm, though.

Yeah seems more likely than being Brainiac 5.
Bendis writes this? Oh man, that looks actually interesting but with Bendis on board i probably wont touch it.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Where does Metal even run at?
I dont know if i asked that before, but i have no grasp of an idea where this all is.
Is that supposed to be prime earth, after snyders batman run?
A different earth? A different timeline on prime earth?
The man is so worried about telling some huge story that he loses himself in making the basics clear.

I believe Metal was set pretty much in the present. It's certainly main Earth/continuity. Yes, I'm not a huge fan of Snyder. I like some of his ideas. I loved the idea behind Court of Owls and I thought it started off promisingly (Batman discovering those old 'Owl-nests' in Gotham's historical buildings? ). But the end (the reveal and big battle) was poor IMO. Same with Dark Nights: Metal. I like the idea and the general story, but it feels so overblown at times, and the ending is ridiculous

Spoiler: Ending of Dark Knights: Metal

everybody joins hands and sings, and everything's okay? Did Disney buy DC?

I have to be honest, i needed to freshen up on convergence because i forgot about 80% of it. XD

So did DC!

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I don't think it's Brainiac 5. I think he's got an "E" on his chest, so he might be the new Element Lad. I won't go within 10 ft. of a Bendis Legion book, so I can't confirm, though.

EDIT: Yeah, in this pic -

Brainiac 5 is in the middle, while this dude is off on the left. So definitely not Brainiac 5. Doesn't confirm Element Lad, but that would be my guess. Mainly because he's the only Legionairre I can think of that starts with "E," lol.

Oh thank you!

 

[Gee]

DC shoots down '5G' or reboot speculation - "not going to happen" | GamesRadar+
More DC Earth One series in development, Batman Vol. 3 coming "very soon" | GamesRadar+

 

[Sorath]

I think for a while DC had considered JLA/Avengers in continuity. That is a great book. I would love to see something like that again but Marvel seem adamante against crossovers of any kind anymore.

I don't know I think Marvel and DC have taken some shots at hinting at wanting to do another cross over in recent years. Marvel did something but forget what it was. During Doomsday clock its mention in future that Superman would be saved by Hulk all though they don't say Hulk per say but it's hinted at.

What like to see them do is create a big bad villain that effects each universe individually. Then eventually story line would lead up to massive cross over event between the two universes.

At first you wouldn't need to read DC to understand what's going on in Marvel and VS Versa. However at some point the two universe would collided. At that point Marvel and DC could team up each do each progress main story line. While still use there normal titles to do ties.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

I don't know I think Marvel and DC have taken some shots at hinting at wanting to do another cross over in recent years. Marvel did something but forget what it was. During Doomsday clock its mention in future that Superman would be saved by Hulk all though they don't say Hulk per say but it's hinted at.

What like to see them do is create a big bad villain that effects each universe individually. Then eventually story line would lead up to massive cross over event between the two universes.

At first you wouldn't need to read DC to understand what's going on in Marvel and VS Versa. However at some point the two universe would collided. At that point Marvel and DC could team up each do each progress main story line. While still use there normal titles to do ties.

I hope that made sense.

They did that in the DC vs Marvel crossover.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Does it, i dont know because i havent heard anything about endless winter...but i expect it to be some elseworld story...but i have no clue, just saw those teasers with batman and wonder woman.

Yea, in the December solicits that were released yesterday, Endless Winter was revealed as a one-month 9 part crossover, and chapters include that month's issue of the Flash (which is monthly that month, not twice monthly) and Justice League Dark.

Thinking about it, it's probably less of a derailing of those books and more an indication that both books are getting revamped in the January, as the creative teams associated with those books aren't involved with the titles in December .

 

[Mani-Man]

I believe Metal was set pretty much in the present. It's certainly main Earth/continuity. Yes, I'm not a huge fan of Snyder. I like some of his ideas. I loved the idea behind Court of Owls and I thought it started off promisingly (Batman discovering those old 'Owl-nests' in Gotham's historical buildings? ). But the end (the reveal and big battle) was poor IMO. Same with Dark Nights: Metal. I like the idea and the general story, but it feels so overblown at times, and the ending is ridiculous

Spoiler: Ending of Dark Knights: Metal

everybody joins hands and sings, and everything's okay? Did Disney buy DC?

I somehow always thought Metal is in the new 52 universe which we dont have anymore i think?
I dont know, doesnt help that snyders storytelling makes this kind of stuff more confusing.XD

Above everything, snyder can not write endings to save himself.
The way court of owls ended was so weak.
Endgame somewhat works, but still feels very weak compared to the beginning and middle part.
The man is just really bad at writing good endings to his stories.

DC shoots down '5G' or reboot speculation - "not going to happen" | GamesRadar+
More DC Earth One series in development, Batman Vol. 3 coming "very soon" | GamesRadar+

5 years, i give it 5 years before a new reboot.
Because i honestly think what we have now is the most confusing timeline we ever had.
Or at least it feels like it.
There are so many comics where i lost complete track.
5G doesnt need to happen, but some kind of reboot will need to happen soon...or at least a huge event(there goes the word again XD)that streamlines everything.

Yea, in the December solicits that were released yesterday, Endless Winter was revealed as a one-month 9 part crossover, and chapters include that month's issue of the Flash (which is monthly that month, not twice monthly) and Justice League Dark.

Thinking about it, it's probably less of a derailing of those books and more an indication that both books are getting revamped in the January, as the creative teams associated with those books aren't involved with the titles in December .

The Solicitations are out? Woho, need to take a look at them, always kind of excited for those.
Lets see what Endless Winter will do and what comes after.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Above everything, snyder can not write endings to save himself.

Yep. he's the Stephen King of the DCU!

 

[Babillygunn]

The only Snyder story that I can think of that ended strong is Black Mirror.

Court of Owls is like watching a heavyweight boxing match between two power punchers who throw everything they have at each other in the first few rounds and spend the last couple of rounds leaning on each other because they are completely spent. Overall it was “good”, but the setup and the openings were simply dynamite. I have to say that the first few issues, with the Talons attacking city leaders and then descending upon Wayne Manor and the cave, and the Bat family dealing with Talons themselves—those were some of the best comics I’ve read. I actually found the Court to be terrifying. And the story felt like real stakes. But after that wave, it kind of dragged on.