The "Hoodie" Incident: Controversial? Racist? - Part 2

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]381483[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]380359[/split]

 

[roach]

If I'm in an empty parking garage, my first instinct is to get to my car as quickly as possible. If I'm walking down the street and I feel like I'm being followed or watched, my first instinct is to get to where I'm going as fast as possible or get to where people are. You don't need military training for that.

Exactly.

 

[roach]

So when he says these guys always get away with this is he talking about black people or the people that have been breaking into houses?

 

[Hal_Jordan]

Originally Posted by Darthphere
If I'm in an empty parking garage, my first instinct is to get to my car as quickly as possible. If I'm walking down the street and I feel like I'm being followed or watched, my first instinct is to get to where I'm going as fast as possible or get to where people are. You don't need military training for that.

What if you are in unfamiliar territory, and are not quite sure which way is safest?

 

[roach]

What if you are in unfamiliar territory, and are not quite sure which way is safest?

Unfamiliar territory is more of an incentive to quickly leave the area.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Zimmerman said " these guys always get away". Something tells me running away would have led to the same outcome for Trayvon.

I believe the same thing.

That statement by Zimmerman told me all I needed to know about his intentions. He wasn't going to let Trayvon "get away", and was willing to do anything necessary to ensure it, which is why he pursued, against being told otherwise, and pursued with a loaded weapon.

Did he necessarily intend to kill when he got out of the car? Probably not. Did he intend to stop Trayvon, detain him until the cops arrive, and ensure he didn't get away? Absolutely. His motives were clear.

When Trayvon didn't cooperate, Zimmerman killed him.

As far as the remark of "his reaction should have been to run home" is irrelevant. Zimmerman became the aggressor. Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. He didn't.

Why is Zimmerman allowed to defend himself, but Trayvon wasn't allowed to defend himself from a blatant and obvious threat?

 

[Hal_Jordan]

Unfamiliar territory is more of an incentive to quickly leave the area.

And go where? All while some guy is following you.

 

[roach]

I'm gonna play devils advocate for a minute here....

Who should be arrested?
1) Man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around and beats up man 1.
2) Man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around and kills man 1.
3) man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around but gets beat up by man 1

 

[roach]

And go where? All while some guy is following you.

1) you are giving me a vague what if...am I on a street, parking garage?
2) this doesn't really apply to this case since Trayvon was familiar withe the area and had at least two places of safety to go to....to his Dads house or back to the 7/11.

 

[Ant-manic]

I'm gonna play devils advocate for a minute here....

Who should be arrested?
1) Man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around and beats up man 1.
2) Man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around and kills man 1.
3) man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around but gets beat up by man 1

the devil could do better. you've not provided enough information in either scenario.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

1) you are giving me a vague what if...am I on a street, parking garage?
2) this doesn't really apply to this case since Trayvon was familiar withe the area and had at least two places of safety to go to....to his Dads house or back to the 7/11.

1)A neighborhood you aren't very familiar with

2)He hadn't lived there very long. So those two "safe" places might not have been so familiar to find his way back to. 2b) People tend to get a little flustered and sometimes disoriented when they realize that someone is following them.

And you're who gets arrested scenario is way too vague. But for the most part, unless you're a police officer, or see someone seriously in trouble, you should never follow or confront someone. That's not your job. Call the police.

 

[Ant-manic]

1) you are giving me a vague what if...am I on a street, parking garage?
2) this doesn't really apply to this case since Trayvon was familiar withe the area and had at least two places of safety to go to....to his Dads house or back to the 7/11.

the answer is, "he shouldn't have to run anywhere. George Zimmerman should have stayed in his car or, better yet, found something to do with his time beside hunt "suspicious" people."

 

[roach]

the devil could do better. you've not provided enough information in either scenario.

Well I am only a minor demon

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

the answer is, "he shouldn't have to run anywhere. George Zimmerman should have stayed in his car or, better yet, found something to do with his time beside hunt "suspicious" people."

Exactly this.

Why Trayvon Martin is being blamed for George Zimmerman stereotyping him, profiling, and pursuing him against police orders, all because he didn't want Trayvon to "get away" like all the others, is both baffling and sickening to me.

Does Martin not also have a right to self defense?

Or does self defense only apply to the white guy with the loaded gun?

 

[roach]

1)A neighborhood you aren't very familiar with

2)He hadn't lived there very long. So those two "safe" places might not have been so familiar to find his way back to. 2b) People tend to get a little flustered and sometimes disoriented when they realize that someone is following them.

And you're who gets arrested scenario is way too vague. But for the most part, unless you're a police officer, or see someone seriously in trouble, you should never follow or confront someone. That's not your job. Call the police.

Ok in a neighborhood I am not familiar with there is always somewhere to go...the opposite direction of the follower. If I felt I was in grave danger...I would knock on doors for help or use the cellphone I have to call the cops.

 

[roach]

Exactly this.

Why Trayvon Martin is being blamed for George Zimmerman stereotyping him, profiling, and pursuing him against police orders, all because he didn't want Trayvon to "get away" like all the others, is both baffling and sickening to me.

Does Martin not also have a right to self defense?

Or does self defense only apply to the white guy with the loaded gun?

I am not saying Trayvon doesn't have the right to defend himself. They both did the wrong thing. Zimmerman should not have gotten out the car. I agree with this. My point is if Trayvon walked home, opened the front door and locked it behind him then we wouldn't be talking about this.

Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. IMO I think so far they haven't proved second degree and probably should have gone after manslaughter.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Or does self defense only apply to the white guy with the loaded gun?

Yes. Apparently that's the elephant in the room when it comes to gun possession.

 

[Warhammer]

I'm gonna play devils advocate for a minute here....

Who should be arrested?
1) Man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around and beats up man 1.
2) Man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around and kills man 1.
3) man 1 follows man 2, man 2 turns around but gets beat up by man 1

Man 2 in #2 should be arrested. Man 1 in #3 should be arrested. In #1, nobody should. Man 1 had it coming, but unfortunately, he'd get arrested too.

 

[roach]

Ok is it wrong for me to say that the Colombian neighbor is fine as hell.....

 

[Charlie Boy]

Show me a picture and I'll tell you.

 

[Victarion]

And go where? All while some guy is following you.

Familiar territory, while keeping my pursuer in my periphery and unaware that I know he/she is following me.

 

[Darthphere]

Are we really debating something as simple as "Let me get out of this place" if you feel you're in danger? I mean, come on.

 

[Charlie Boy]

Hind sights 20/20. If any of us were in Zimmermann's neighborhood we'd all be dead. He was itching to make an example.

 

[roach]

Hind sights 20/20. If any of us were in Zimmermann's neighborhood we'd all be dead. He was itching to make an example.

If that was the case he would have shot him as soon as he saw him...and wouldn't have called the cops or yelled for onlookers to call the cops...those are not the actions of someone out for blood.