The "Hoodie" Incident: Controversial? Racist? - Part 3

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So tonight as I was leaving my friend's apartment to bike back to my place, one of his white neighbors came out and asked me if I needed a ride somewhere, cuz, "you know, blacks are trying to get revenge off that whole Trayvon Martin thing"

I told him I was just going down the street and I'd be fine.

On the way home I saw a group of black dudes broken down on the side of the road. I extended my aid to help them push their car into a nearby apartment complex where they were going.

He didn't ask if it was broken. He asked if we can all agree on this.
For those whom the system serves, it isn't broken and they have no motivation to change it. Much like the concept of racism. For those that aren't hurt by their racism they have no need to change their attitudes.

That's exactly what constitutes a broken system, tho. I don't think he's asking for everyone on the planet to agree. He's asking for everyone participating in this conversation to agree.

And I certainly do. The system is broken, and a law that allows a man to pick a fight with someone, kill them, and get off, proves it.

I was saying that because it had all women, as opposed to all men of earlier days. Chill...geez

Well maybe those women need to get back to their place in the kitchen and cook dinner for the men who should have been on the jury!

(Just kidding! It's a joke! Don't take it seriously! )

I never said I was Hispanic. I said I look Hispanic. I'd also like to know how the hell am I a racist ? Did you not read the part where I said my dad's side of the family is black ? I can also mention that about 60% of my friends growing up are black ? Did you know that my first girlfriend was black ? Also , I was carrying a knife on me way before the Trayvon Martin incident. I started carrying one because I happened to be walking home at night and crackhead was giving me a look like I was about to steal his crack.

Well that settles it. You're part black, so you can't be racist.

Cuz we all know that black people can't be racist.

Which is why those black dudes that scared you weren't staring at you because you look Hispanic.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

Just when you think these stories can't get any worse...

Howard Morgan, Chicago man shot 28 times by Chicago cops, sentenced to 40 years in prison.

A 61-year-old Chicago man who was shot 28 times by Chicago police officers in 2005 -- and lived to tell his side of the story -- was sentenced early Thursday afternoon to serve 40 years in prison, essentially a life sentence.

Howard Morgan, himself a former Chicago police officer, was sentenced on an attempted murder charge Thursday, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Take a wild guess what colour Morgan's skin is.

 

[bullets]

So tonight as I was leaving my friend's apartment to bike back to my place, one of his white neighbors came out and asked me if I needed a ride somewhere, cuz, "you know, blacks are trying to get revenge off that whole Trayvon Martin thing"

I told him I was just going down the street and I'd be fine.

On the way home I saw a group of black dudes broken down on the side of the road. I extended my aid to help them push their car into a nearby apartment complex where they were going.

It's good to be cautious , but usually you can follow your instinct to determine whether a situation is going to take a turn for the worse. You knew those guys on the side of the road weren't posing a threat and that they would probably be grateful for your help. I'm not going to live in fear because of this incident. If someone wants to approach me on the street violently they are either crazy or a moron. I take everyone at face value and I'm not basing my safety on theories.

The neighbor made an ignorant comment. There has been backlash. It is happening in small doses. However the people that attack in the name of Trayvon Martin are a disgrace. They are just using this trial as an excuse to rationale their criminal behavior.



This is a strange story. A musician was attacked on stage for dedicating a song to Trayvon Martin. She at one point was heard saying "It's all your fault" so I think there could be more to the incident. Either way she seems nuts.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...cked-after-dedicating-song-to-trayvon-martin/

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Did Zimmerman provoke this entire encounter? No doubt. Did he have the right to use his firearm once his head was being smashed into the ground and his nose was broken? No doubt.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Yea, to add even more to the fire, the black guys on the side of the road where pants sagging, dreads, gold teeth types that, if Spider - Man had his way, would have just been waiting to mug me and leave me for dead on the side of the street.

It's really a nothing story, I just thought it was funny considering all the talk in this thread of race riots going on.

 

[Tanin]

Just when you think these stories can't get any worse...

Howard Morgan, Chicago man shot 28 times by Chicago cops, sentenced to 40 years in prison.

Take a wild guess what colour Morgan's skin is.

28 times and he lives? Those police offers need to be fired for not knowing how to discharge their weapons properly. As for Morgan.. the article doesn't go into enough detail for me to make any judgement calls as to what happened.

First it says he never fired cause he had no residue on his hand and fingers... then it says he was never tested..... can't have it both ways so I can't comment.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Either way I'm inclined to believe Morgan's story...

Not because black and corrupt cops, but... shooting a guy 28 times??? Seriously??? Overkill much??

 

[Tanin]

Either way I'm inclined to believe Morgan's story...

Not because black and corrupt cops, but... shooting a guy 28 times??? Seriously??? Overkill much??

I agree that he is probably telling the truth. Overkill? Obviously not as he is still alive. He will be in pain anytime he moves now though.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Interesting...you do know that's it's within the realm of possibilities that black people-or any other minority group-are capable of doing bad things? and that's it's actually okay for thinking that? that it doesn't make you a racist...or send you to hell?

You're condemning Zimmerman for assuming things, yet you're doing exactly the same thing

This.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I agree that he is probably telling the truth. Overkill? Obviously not as he is still alive. He will be in pain anytime he moves now though.

Well I mean, he survived, sure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't overkill.

There is absolutely zero reason for law enforcement to shoot a person 28 times.

 

[Tanin]

I've had black men call me racist for looking at them funny while I'm walking down a blind alley at 2 am...

I be looking at EVERYONE funny while I'm walking down a blind alley at 2 am. I'd rather people think I'd a racist and bigot then end up like Thomas Wayne.

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

Well I mean, he survived, sure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't overkill.

There is absolutely zero reason for law enforcement to shoot a person 28 times.

Black suspects often seem to get shot a similarly ludicrous number of times by police.

Mentally ill Michigan man shot 46 times by police

Or the incident involving African immigrant Amadou Diallo that was immortalized in the Bruce Springsteen song "American Skin (41 Shots)".

 

[Tanin]

Well I mean, he survived, sure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't overkill.

There is absolutely zero reason for law enforcement to shoot a person 28 times.

When you start shooting you keep shooting til whom you are shooting is down... assuming that all four officers started shooting at the same time and all stopped firing when he hit the ground as should be done for safety's sake that is 7 bullets per person.

Considering how fast you can shoot a 9mm assuming that is what they had, I'd say that is about right. I say the number just sounds big because of how many people were shooting at him.

Note: This is just my opinion based on how I was trained to use firearms and may be nothing like what actually happened.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Pretty solid, even-handed article about the entire Zimmerman case. Really should help put to rest some facts many are screwing up to further their sides.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...imes_prosecution_and_other_overreactions.html

 

[Lantern Venom]

And I certainly do. The system is broken, and a law that allows a man to pick a fight with someone, kill them, and get off, proves it.

.

Indeed, it does. When you have a man with a history of violence against the police and domestic violence, who's also suffering from paranoia, he doesn't possess the sound mind that should be absolutely required to own a firearm. Moreover, this type of unstable person should definitely not be enabled by the local police department to possibly escalate minor situations into deadly ones.

 

[Dragon]

Though it wasn't an indictment of anyone's lack of factual information around here, it actually wasn't a joke, it was a fact. Women have come a long way since all men juries.

But are we any better off for it?

I think in the Zimmerman case, having an all female jury was a terrible mistake. Those who convinced the others that Zimmerman was not guilty were functioning purely on their fear of someone like Martin, and their feelings of helplessness had they been in Zimmerman's place. Having a few men in there might have balanced things a bit.

 

[Dragon]

That's exactly what constitutes a broken system, tho. I don't think he's asking for everyone on the planet to agree. He's asking for everyone participating in this conversation to agree.

And I certainly do. The system is broken, and a law that allows a man to pick a fight with someone, kill them, and get off, proves it.

And obviously since there are many engaged in the is conversation who think the verdict of this trial was fair- or for that matter that Zimmerman shouldn't have been charged at all, won't agree.

But- to suggest that the system is broken- is to imply that it once worked. And it never did, certainly not for a number of people in this country. The verdict in this trial is nothing new.

 

[Dragon]

You got it backward. I'm saying i'm willing to accept ANY scenario, INCLUDING the one he mentioned. YOU, on the other hand assuming that it is most likely anything BUT what he said..so...

You never mentioned accepting any other scenario and certainly didn't suggest one.

Why would i assume he's wrong? i wasn't there...need i mentioened it again? it could be anything INCLUDING what he said happened, strange that you cannot accept that concept.

Because his statement is the very definition of prejudice. To judge without prior knowledge, based on previous information not valid in the given circumstances.

And that right there is the real reason for this argument....and the reason why this Zimmerman and Treyvon crap got blown out of proportion. Out of control PCness and people not reading beyond the headlines.

No- the real reason for this argument is because an unarmed teenager was murdered. The fact that you don't get it- and your priorities are about "PCness" and "headlines" suggests that its very realistic that this will continue to happen for a long time to come.

Gebus...just like you automatically dismissing his claim, without any facts to base it on? Why would i think he's lying? i dunno the guy... i wasn't there...and neither were you. At least i have said that ANY scenario is possible.

I dismiss his claim because its based on ignorance. Considering that the "Black men giving him a look he didn't like because he looks Hispanic" did nothing to him, his concern was clearly pointless. Kind of along the lines of the courageous figure that saw a teen doing nothing wrong and killed him because he didn't like the looks of him either.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

You never mentioned accepting any other scenario and certainly didn't suggest one.

Really, Matlock? read my initial responses to Darthpere, the one i originallyhaving this discussion with, where i said it could be any number of things...including the one scenario he offered.

And what i said to you last night:

You got it backward. I'm saying i'm willing to accept ANY scenario, INCLUDING the one he mentioned. YOU, on the other hand assuming that it is most likely anything BUT what he said..so...

Because his statement is the very definition of prejudice. To judge without prior knowledge, based on previous information not valid in the given circumstances.

Let's just calls a spade, a spade here. His statement bothered you because he said a group of blackman were giving him the dirty looks.Which automatically made him a racist in your mind.Kinda ironic you're giving the description of what prejudice is, since YOU'RE doing that right now...
YOU don't live in his neighbourhood, YOU weren't there when the incident happen,YOU don't know the guy personally or the group of black guys he said were giving him the looks, YOU don't know what's been happening in his neighbourhood as of late...so how in the blue hell could you claim that he was wrong?!? that it was prejudice?!? why is this so hard concept for you to grasp?

I dismiss his claim because its based on ignorance. Considering that the "Black men giving him a look he didn't like because he looks Hispanic" did nothing to him, his concern was clearly pointless. Kind of along the lines of the courageous figure that saw a teen doing nothing wrong and killed him because he didn't like the looks of him either.

The fact that you didn't like what he was saying doesn't make his statement wrong. I'm thinking you're just having a knee-jerk reaction to the guy saying negative thing about blacks.

In any case, i'm done discussing this subject because it feels silly now, I don't know the guy, don't live in his neighbourhood, he ain't my buddy...and the next round of this debate is just gonna go further round in circles.

Btw...thanks for keeping it civil, though. Mucho appreciated. Was fun!

 

[Iron_Stark]

I repeat:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...ticle-1.286619

Where's the public outcry? Why isn't this national headlines? Where are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? What do they have to say about this? Why isn't Spike Lee tweeting this guy's address? oops, wrong color victim.

Nobody gives a crap, especially the media. Which is how the whole Zimmerman/Martin BS should've been had it not been for the idiot news people and them editing the 911 tapes.

EDIT

How come this one also never made headlines? Three black men kill white woman. Where was Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on this one? Why aren't they marching up and down city hall?

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/lake/12726271-418/2-held-in-fatal-schererville-shooting.html

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Where's the public outcry? Why isn't this national headlines? Where are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? What do they have to say about this? Why isn't Spike Lee tweeting this guy's address? oops, wrong color victim.

Nobody gives a crap, especially the media. Which is how the whole Zimmerman/Martin BS should've been had it not been for the idiot news people and them editing the 911 tapes.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Dragon]

Really, Matlock? read my initial responses to Darthpere, the one i originallyhaving this discussion with, where i said it could be any number of things...including the one scenario he offered.

The fact remains is that you still don't get just what as wrong with his statement.

Let's just calls a spade, a spade here.

What an interesting choice of terms.

His statement bothered you because he said a group of blackman were giving him the dirty looks.Which automatically made him a racist in your mind.Kinda ironic you're giving the description of what prejudice is, since YOU'RE doing that right now...

Thanks for proving my point. No. My problem wasn't his referring to a group of Black men. If he'd been Black and said a group of Hispanic men were giving him dirty looks my reaction would've been the same. And they didn't give him "dirty looks" BTW- he just didn't like the way they were looking at him. Kinda like Zimmerman.

YOU don't live in his neighbourhood, YOU weren't there when the incident happen,YOU don't know the guy personally or the group of black guys he said were giving him the looks, YOU don't know what's been happening in his neighbourhood as of late...so how in the blue hell could you claim that he was wrong?!? that it was prejudice?!? why is this so hard concept for you to grasp?

It doesn't matter what happens in his neighborhood. If he's never had a problem with this particular group of guys, his point is moot, and his aggression was unfounded.

The fact that you didn't like what he was saying doesn't make his statement wrong. I'm thinking you're just having a knee-jerk reaction to the guy saying negative thing about blacks.

Doesn't sound like that point required any thought on your part at all. But obviously you know all about knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Dragon]

Where's the public outcry? Why isn't this national headlines? Where are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? What do they have to say about this? Why isn't Spike Lee tweeting this guy's address? oops, wrong color victim.

Nobody gives a crap, especially the media. Which is how the whole Zimmerman/Martin BS should've been had it not been for the idiot news people and them editing the 911 tapes.

Outcry? White (The father who killed the teen) was immediately arrested, tried and sent to jail- even though his case was absolutely one of self-defense with eye witnesses and especially because the teen along with a gang of others stormed onto White's property threatening to attack White's son.

Oh- and what would've happened had Martin's father threatened Zimmerman's life after the verdict was delivered as Cicciaro did with White's son?

EDIT

How come this one also never made headlines? Three black men kill white woman. Where was Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on this one? Why aren't they marching up and down city hall?

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/lake/12726271-418/2-held-in-fatal-schererville-shooting.html

You're still not getting it? Once again- the suspects were arrested. There's a manhunt for the third- and they will be tried, most certainly convicted and given the harshest sentence possible.

The protests began because Zimmerman WASN'T.

Not to mention that this was a robbery- Not racially motivated. There's nothing to suggest they targeted the victim because she was white. They've probably attacked blacks and well as whites in the past- (And yes- I think the murder of this woman is equally as tragic as Martin's).

This is not the case of someone working under the guise of being a law-abiding citizen and murdering someone who only looked suspicious because of his race.

 

[Mistah K88]

Yea, to add even more to the fire, the black guys on the side of the road where pants sagging, dreads, gold teeth types that, if Spider - Man had his way, would have just been waiting to mug me and leave me for dead on the side of the street.

It's really a nothing story, I just thought it was funny considering all the talk in this thread of race riots going on.

*spits out water* Are you saying that people can be judged as individuals? BLASPHEMY!

Where's the public outcry? Why isn't this national headlines? Where are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? What do they have to say about this? Why isn't Spike Lee tweeting this guy's address? oops, wrong color victim.

Nobody gives a crap, especially the media. Which is how the whole Zimmerman/Martin BS should've been had it not been for the idiot news people and them editing the 911 tapes.

EDIT

How come this one also never made headlines? Three black men kill white woman. Where was Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on this one? Why aren't they marching up and down city hall?

[URL="http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/lake/12726271-418/2-held-in-fatal-schererville-shooting.html"]http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/lake/12726271-418/2-held-in-fatal-schererville-shooting.html[/URL]

Every time someone says one of these "where is the public outcry" cases they tend to not even know what the public outcry is about. If the murderers were indeed arrested or even being hunted for by the police and not ignored, then THAT is the reason why there is no "outrage" about the murderers being arrested. The only reason Zimmerman even went to trial is because out the public outcry. I underlined a couple of key words in case some people still don't get why there is no "public outcry"...but I wouldn't be surprised if people still don't get it...

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

Okay...i've said i was done with this, but what the heck, here we go again:

The fact remains is that you still don't get just what as wrong with his statement.

You're right, i don't. I don't consider it a taboo to say that you don't like the way people looking at you, just because they belong to a minority group or such like. It's okay to say that, it's does not make you a racist or makes you prejudice per se.

What an interesting choice of terms.

It's an expression often used by people in my country...so..

Thanks for proving my point. No. My problem wasn't his referring to a group of Black men. If he'd been Black and said a group of Hispanic men were giving him dirty looks my reaction would've been the same. And they didn't give him "dirty looks" BTW- he just didn't like the way they were looking at him. Kinda like Zimmerman.

It doesn't matter what happens in his neighborhood. If he's never had a problem with this particular group of guys, his point is moot, and his aggression was unfounded.

Already state my opinions on this numerous times.Not gonna repeat myself.

Doesn't sound like that point required any thought on your part at all. But obviously you know all about knee-jerk reactions.

Well... yeah. I learned alot about knee jerk comments from reading your posts these past 24 hours, so...