The identity of red x (teen titans)

[White_widow13]

Jason Todd, Grant Wilson, or a bionic monkey? I don't think so. I think I've figured out the identity of the second red x in the teen titans series.

For those of you who need a refresher, (as teen titans hasn't aired on cartoon network for a long time) red x was a grim reaper looking thief that started as an alter-ego for robin. Robin pretended to be a villain to get close to Slade. To really sell it to Slade, Robin didn't tell the titans and even fought against them using advanced tech designed to fight them all. Eventually, Slade discovered who Red x's identity and Robin abandoned the suit. Because the suit was powered by an unstable formula, he has to lock it away in a safe vault in titan's tower. (it was too dangerous to dispose of the normal way.)

An un-determined time later, the titans stop a robbery in progress and finds the thief to be Redx. Robin was no longer in the suit and the new guy was never unmasked leaving it the second most aggravating unsolved mystery in the series (After if Terra was alive or not.)

So this forum will be dedicated to discovering the identity of this guy. Let the theories begin.

 

[White_widow13]

Let's start with the evidence, as there are many things that could give us clues to this guys identity.

1.) Age- This guy is older than the teen titans. He frequently calls them kids, and is somewhat taller than Robin.

2.)build- With the exception of height, this guy has the same body structure as robin. He is extremely athletic and capable of matching Robin in combat. Speaking of that...

3.) combat style- He fights similar to Robin. The exception is that he focuses more on weapons use and punching versus kicking. Redx1 (robin) kicks more that Redx2. Some have hypothesized that Red x must have been trained by a similar teacher because they are so similar. (I.e. batman, the league of shadows, or slade.)

4.)personality- this is ambiguous. It's difficult to match characters from cross universes. For example Robin in teen titans is very different personality-wise than robin in arkham knight, or under the red hood. However, most of them will share the same goals. For example, Robin becomes nightwing in most of the universes. I think it's obvious now that I'm referring to Dick Grayson for Robin. This character is interested in himself. He steals for money. No word on if he uses drugs, but we do know that he is only interested in number one.

It should also be noted that he has a vigilante streak in him. He will beat villains down without mercy and plays the part of a hero in both X and Revved up.

5.) Style- Red x focuses on acrobatic techniques and anonymity. He uses a full face mask with a voice changer. He has also modified his costume. Redx2 has one major difference in his costume from the first redx. He modified the shoes. If you pay attention the subway fight where Robin saves beast boy, you can see that he doesn't have any logos on his shoes. If you look at redx2 in revved up, it's easy to see that his shoes have new soles with the logo on the bottom.

6.)unique weapons- When it comes to Redx2, he uses a few unique weapons that seem to be added by him (that or Robin never used them) Two weapons that Redx2 uses that redx1 doesn't is the gel ropes that he uses against control freak and Mad Mod, and the solid shuriken. Again, it's possible that robin had it, but I don't know. The fact that he was able to get another power belt after robin stole the first implies that he made one or stole it back. If he made it himself, he has some tech knowhow.

7.) alt universe timeline- if the alternative identity of red x isn't a clone or a robot, he will have an analogue in other universes. This character will exist sometime before Robin becomes nightwing. He also partnered with the brotherhood of evil temporarily. This implies that his counterparts will also team up with a league of evil.

So these are the clues. The only other thing we have to go on is beast boy's theory board:http://orig09.deviantart.net/3eb3/f/2013/073/6/6/who_is_red_x__by_devastator941-d5y2ss4.png

but I'm fairly certain that alot of this is far-fetched. but jason Todd seems logical.

 

[White_widow13]

Let's start with the elephant in the Room. Let's go with Jason Todd. Let's compare him to the evidence:

1.) age- Jason Todd is somewhat younger than Dick Grayson in most continuities. That being said, Redx2 could be using the phrase kids to hide his identity or show a lack or respect.

2.)build- Jason todd had the same physical training from batman as Grayson. As such he will have a similar physical structure. Plus, when you see him in arkham knight, you see that he is muscular and slender.

3.)combat style- being that he was trained by batman, it makes sense that jason is a logical fit. He would punch more than Dick as well as he's not a trained acrobat. This would also make sense as Red hood (Jason's alter ego) mostly relies on weapons, just as redx2 does.

4.)personality- Todd is inherently selfish, but he is mostly trying to become the best. He also fixates on batman. I think that this is a stretch.

5.)style- Red x and red hood. both wear red, grey, and black. They focus on weapons, and use voice changing helmets.

6.)unique weapons- I'm not sold on this one. Todd has always been drawn to firearms and knives. While he does use explosives, none of them are logo based. Even his shuriken are just plain ninja stars.

7.) This is also tricky. At this point, Todd should be dead. Robin has left the teen titans, and batman would be picking up Todd. He would be training with Bruce or dying from joker's crow bar. He was trained by the league of shadows after resurrection though so it seems possible, just unlikely. It seems like robin would become nightwing before Jason could get back to life and starting his new identity.



I'm not thoroughly convinced that Jason Todd is Red x. His goals are too different, the timeline doesn't seem to work, and he uses more realistic weapons than X does. I'm going to say no, but if you disagree, let me know.

 

[White_widow13]

Next up comes Grant Wilson. Grant wilson is the son of Slade. He is a trained warrior and becomes the Ravager. He also has a grudge against the teen titans. From the wiki: "The final straw came when Starfire crashed into his apartment, and his living space was destroyed by Gordanians who were hunting the alien princess. The New Teen Titans fended off the Gordanians, but Grant blamed them for both destroying his apartment and convincing Carol to leave him." Let's try him.

1.)age- Grant is about the same age as dick grayson or older. This seems to fit.

2.)build- he is athletic, strong, and superpowered. This would be so hard to judge in redx2 because the suit is superpowered anyway.

3.)combat style- He is trained by the H.I.V.E. and idolized deathstroke (aka Slade). This is the same organization that trained jinx and mammoth. This would make sense, though it seems that his stances are so similar to Robin, that I kind of doubt it.

4.)personality- He is filled with a lot of anger. He goes after Slade hard and strong. He also hates the titans, blaming them for his problems in life. I doubt this as well.

5.)style- He likes to wear armor, has a black, yellow, and grey costume, and wears both a full face and half face mask that leaves his mouth exposed. Due to the armor, I'm going to have to say no.

6.)unique weapons- Like red hood, Grant uses a sword and guns. The weapons are very realistic and efficient. He is also super-powered and doesn't have need for inventing new ones.

7.)alt.universe- well, this fits. In the comics, this fits almost perfectly. His introduction is in the teen titans universe and works with this teen titan's version of the H.I.V.E. This would also explain how he knows how to break into titans tower.

I honestly think grant is closer, but he doesn't have the same goals, weapons, and his style is more efficient than X's. Still, he isn't accounted for in the series. I'm going to give him a strong PLAUSIBLE.

 

[White_widow13]

Now, these are the main characters that many theorize are redx2. However after watching young justice and doing a little research, I've determined that I have another character that fits the bill. That character is Eric Needham...aka the black spider. Now this is strange because it's pulling from two different interpretations of the character. The comics version and the version from young justice.

1.) Age: Eric Needham in the comics is an adult male that seems similar in age to batman. the same could be said in assault on arkham. In young justice, we aren't positive. We can however state that he is old enough that the league of assassins had trained him. Going by voice actor, he sounds like an older version of peter parker. His age would work.

2.)build: in young justice, he is gymnastic, thin, and muscular. This fits too. Even in comics, he is slightly more muscular, but not over-the-top. This fits too.

3.)combat style. This one pulls from assault on arkham and young justice. In AOA, he is able to fight with batman one on one for a while. In that time we see that he relies mostly on punches, weapons, and occasional low kicks. In young justice, he mostly relies on his weapons and gymnastic attacks. He was also trained by the league of shadows in young justice, so Ra'as would endow him with similar fighting styles to those that he gave batman (though in teen titans, we don't have a league of shadows. We do have a hive which would be the most transferrable group he's likely get into)

4.)personality/goals: Eric Needham starts out as a thief that steals money for drugs. eventually he goes to far and ends up trying to kill drug dealers. Either way, he's generally selfish. If he starts redx at the beginning of his career, this would fit perfectly.

5.)style. look at Eric's shoes:

He has the logo that is on his mask on his shoes. This is a stylistic choice that Redx makes. This is an important clue, because the sole logos are one of the few things that redx2 did to modify the suit. That is his style choice. He also has a mask that bears his logo, prefers stealth, and loves to use weapons. In AOA he uses knives, in Young Justice, he uses the web shooters, and in the comics, he uses guns and explosives. His alternate identity works here.

unique weapons- Let's talk about the web shooters in young justice. Even though they function like spiderman's weapon, the web is red. This is odd, as black spider's costume is purple and black. I doubt he dyed the webs this color as it doesn't match his motifs. Another thing. When redx is destroying cars in Revved up, we learn that his shoes can stick to things. When he destroys gizmo's vehicle, he sticks on it for a good couple of seconds. When black spider tries to assassinate the journalist, he sticks to the walls for a good half minute or so. Eric needham dies in the comics by detonating explosives on his body. In "X" Redx2 threatens to do that when Robin threatens him in the xenothium room.

7.) Alternate universe: Eric needham works the best if we look at it as though young justice and teen titans were parallel time lines (granted deathstroke throws this theory right out but I'm using dick grayson as a yardstick here). In teen titans, Dick fights Red X who constantly searches for Xenothium and steals. We then see X join the league of evil. Finally, he beats a bunch of villains and disappears forever. We don't see him after this. Robin then becomes nightwing. This would start the events of young justice. Then we see the Black spider who is now a vigilante. We can infer this because the league of shadows is a vigilante assassin's group. This fits well as it explains why X disappears( he crosses the line as red x and becomes the vigilante just like his origin states), how the black spider gets the web shooter that doesn't look like technology from the DC universe that I'm familiar with, and stylistic choices that passed from red x to black spider.

I challenge anyone with better DC knowledge than me, to argue with me on this, because I think that this is the right answer. Eric Needham is both Red X and Black spider. If I somehow missed something, I want someone to correct me.

Thoughts?

 

[Undernage]

I am definitely going with Eric Needham as Red X, it fits so well. The shoes, the way he was gonna blow himself up, and similarities really shock me. Grant Wilson is not that bad of a choice.

I think Jason Todd is a good choice. People complain about his age being an infant in TT, but in TT universe, Robin leaves Batman even though he hasn't become nightwing and he's still young, so yeah there's time for Todd to come. People ask why isn't Red Hood in the show? Red Hood is a gruesome character who KILLS, guns and knives violence and it's a kid's show like Deathstroke's name was censored and his first name Slade was used, so why not Red X. Both of them have RED in their names. Also it makes sense that Robin wore the suit first, so therefore another Robin is wearing it, I was so obsessed that Jason Todd is Red X, but when I read your forum and the section on Eric Needham aka Black Spider, I changed my mind immediately, I think it's Eric, no doubt.

Red X could also be Mitch, Robin's lost brother, it was shown on Beast Boy's theory board, or a clone of Robin or time traveled Damian or Tim Drake.

But with all your DC knowledge and your interpretation, I will go with Eric Needham, I don't really know much about him, I like Jason Todd more, but Eric Needham is Red X!

 

[White_widow13]

You know, I kind of dismissed it, but I never considered a brother in this circumstance. I disregarded most of beast boy's theories because it was supposed to be a funny observation of beast boy's lack of investigative skills. That being said, if Robin had a brother, they would have trained together in acrobatics as children.

Under that circumstance, if batman didn't pick up his brother he might have been hard up for cash. His skills would allow him to become a good thief. If he then got absorbed by the H.I.V.E. (as they have a knack at finding criminal prodigies) he would been given training to break in. That could work.

I would like Jason as it could be considered poetic. Started by robin and ended by robin. Two of batman's pupils competing in the different sides of the law.

To your point Undernage, Jason took the mantle of the person that created him. Joker was red hood before todd took up that mantle. He does this in SPOILER arkham knight. Instead of fixating on the joker, he fixates on batman and becomes the arkham knight, a brutal militarized version of batman. He does those for the same reason. He wants to personify a person's mistakes coming back. Joker's criminal career and batman's brutality were coming back to haunt and murder them. If he chose Robin, his greatest mistake X would be coming back to haunt him.