The Iran Thread

If it's proven Iran's helping the insurgency kill American troops, do we invade Iran?

  • yes

  • no

  • not sure


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However, if Iran is solely enriching uranium for energy purposes, they wouldn't need to enrich it at 90% capacity. They would only need to do so at 5-10%. So, why then, are they enriching it at that level? Every other nation who practices in 90% enrichment has gone on to develop nuclear weapons-- the United States, Russia, India, China, etc.

Some civilian reactors use Uranium that is enriched higher than 10%. Naval reactors use uranium that is about 50% enriched. Plutonium can also be used for nuclear weapons, so if they were using Plutonium some people would still say that Iran is making "nuclear weapons".

Again, I'll rely on the IAEA and they've yet to find conclusive evidence that Iran is making nuclear weapons.
 
Ask yourselves, would the world be a better place with Ahmadinejad removed from power? I'm not a fan of the wag the dog that's been taking place with this administration, but removing Sadam from power was a good thing, for the people of Iraq, and for democracy in general. I think the same can be said for with Iran.

Ali Khamenei is the true leader of Iran, Ahmadinejad is a dumbass talking head and most know it. Ali says that the Nuclear Energy is about National Pride, but he is willing to negotiate much more than Ahmadinejad is.....
 
Some civilian reactors use Uranium that is enriched higher than 10%. Naval reactors use uranium that is about 50% enriched. Plutonium can also be used for nuclear weapons, so if they were using Plutonium some people would still say that Iran is making "nuclear weapons".

Again, I'll rely on the IAEA and they've yet to find conclusive evidence that Iran is making nuclear weapons.

Plutonium is highly volatile and difficult to enrich. So if Iran had plutonium reactors, I would be hesitant before making any accusations that they might be using it for nuclear weapons. Moreover, it's difficult to enrich on a mass scale, unlike uranium.

As for your argument about naval reactors, you said they were 50% enriched. That's 50%. Not 90%. 90% is needed for nuclear weapons, and Iran currently has enough centrifuges to reach 90% enrichment or higher.

I'd like to rely on the IAEA, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The super-left seems to think that Iran is a peaceful, happy nation with a big cuddly leader who just needs a gwate big huggly-wuggly. I examine their president's rhetoric, combined with my knowledge on how nuclear weapons are manufactured, before coming up with my own conclusion. Of course, I forget that, for some people, as long as Bush criticizes a country or refuses to take military action off the table, it's evil and untrue :cmad:

Bush will probably slap himself in the forehead if Iran nukes Israel. Meanwhile, President Obama will look at the crisis and say "But I thought tea and scones were the solution?!"

I can't wait.
 
Ali Khamenei is the true leader of Iran, Ahmadinejad is a dumbass talking head and most know it. Ali says that the Nuclear Energy is about National Pride, but he is willing to negotiate much more than Ahmadinejad is.....

The problem is, Khamenei shares Ahmadinejad's view that Israel should not exist. So I would imagine that he would not be opposed to obliterating the country if Ahmadinejad proposed it.
 
Yes he does, as do many of the leaders in the Middle East, the difference is........he's smart enough to know what the US could do......and would be against that.
 
I ignore the rhetoric from both Iran and the US and rely on the IAEA who know more about nuclear power than both of those *******s combined.
 
The problem is, Khamenei shares Ahmadinejad's view that Israel should not exist. So I would imagine that he would not be opposed to obliterating the country if Ahmadinejad proposed it.
Israel is one of the most significant military powers on Earth and has the United States to back them up if they can't handle threats aimed at them on their own. I would very highly doubt Iran would ever try something so stupid as to attack Israel. Remarks such as those Ahmadinejad made about Israel are in the same species of political maneuvering as talk of outlawing flag burning in the US.

However, it is not even certain that what Ahmadinejad said ought to be taken as a threat. According to the esteemed University of Michigan professor Juan Cole, the remark about Israel, if properly translated, conveys a wish that Israel should collapse, rather than expressing a hope that Israel should be destroyed by some kind of outside violent force.
 
Plutonium is highly volatile and difficult to enrich. So if Iran had plutonium reactors, I would be hesitant before making any accusations that they might be using it for nuclear weapons. Moreover, it's difficult to enrich on a mass scale, unlike uranium.

As for your argument about naval reactors, you said they were 50% enriched. That's 50%. Not 90%. 90% is needed for nuclear weapons, and Iran currently has enough centrifuges to reach 90% enrichment or higher.

I'd like to rely on the IAEA, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The super-left seems to think that Iran is a peaceful, happy nation with a big cuddly leader who just needs a gwate big huggly-wuggly. I examine their president's rhetoric, combined with my knowledge on how nuclear weapons are manufactured, before coming up with my own conclusion. Of course, I forget that, for some people, as long as Bush criticizes a country or refuses to take military action off the table, it's evil and untrue :cmad:

Bush will probably slap himself in the forehead if Iran nukes Israel. Meanwhile, President Obama will look at the crisis and say "But I thought tea and scones were the solution?!"

I can't wait.

Hmm, I'm mixed on this. I really think Obama's talking to Iran is one of his few good solutions. They are definitely a country on the ledge, but really, all we have to do is wait them out another 15-20 years. Their younger generations really are very west-friendly and would like to become a more westernized country. These generations will take power sooner of later so as long as we can keep them from doing anything stupid until then...it may not be an issue.

Of course, Iran is being run by crazy people. So who knows what they might do, especially if they feel their power is threatened. If they do nuke Israel, they too will have to be nuked. There is no way around that, it has to be done in order to reinforce the notion of MAD (mutually assured destruction), the A-Bomb will have to be dropped on Iran. MAD is incredibly important to keep the nuclear powers in check. A mere invasion and regime change would not keep it from happening again. Someone will have to nuke Iran if they ever have the balls to use their arsenal in order to maintain this principle that keeps the world in check in the nuclear age. Sure, hippies will rant and protest that it was evil, and unneccessary, but allowing an unchecked nuclear attack would be a far greater evil as it basically takes away the one deterrent the world has against nuclear war.

I hope that Khamenei and Ahmadinejad are smart enough to know that their country will be wiped off of the map if they use nuclear weapons, but like I said, they are crazy.
 
Personally I think the CIA should pull a Kermit Roosevelt and work with the younger generation and try to stage a coup.
 
Personally I think the CIA should pull a Kermit Roosevelt and work with the younger generation and try to stage a coup.
Um, Kermit Roosevelt's coup is the reason why a bunch of religious fundamentalists are controlling the country in the first place. Mossadeq was a secularist, and he is, to this day, one of the most beloved figures in Iranian politics amongst Iranians. Though the younger generation has a favorable opinion of American culture and Americans, they still harbor a great animosity toward the American government for its history of interfering in the affairs of their country.
 
Um, Kermit Roosevelt's coup is the reason why a bunch of religious fundamentalists are controlling the country in the first place. Mossadeq was a secularist, and he is, to this day, one of the most beloved figures in Iranian politics amongst Iranians. Though the younger generation has a favorable opinion of American culture and Americans, they still harbor a great animosity toward the American government for its history of interfering in the affairs of their country.

I understand the downfall of Ajax - the problem was the Shah and their oppressive regime. The execution was brilliant however.
 
You have a President who wants to eliminate Israel, denies the Holocaust and is vehemently anti-Western. He believes he is meant to do God's work to eliminate a race and is not afraid to use nuclear weapons to do so if he can possess them. He has then taken strides to receive these weapons. Iran has been guilty of helping the Iraqi insurrection AGAINST American troops - a reason enough to go to war.

Bwahahaha.

"He doesn't like Israel! Also, he doesn't like us! Also, some claims for which I cite no evidence whatsoever. Also, HE DOESN'T LIEK USSSSSS!"

Oh no you're right, that's totally another reason to launch a military invasion of a nation of 71 million people inevitably resulting in the deaths of millions of those people. Because a figurehead with no political power doesn't like a country which he's in no position to do anything about.

Yes, the Pentagon was wrong in saying Saddam and Al-Qaeda were working together - but there was contact between Saddam and Usama - Saddam even offered Usama refuge. Not the amount of cooperation implied by the Pentagon, but still there.

Cite sources or stop making **** up.

For anyone to call this war "illegal" is simply wrong. Saddam broke the cease fire agreements set in place at the end of the Gulf War - that is fact.

Saddam broke a UN Security Council resolution, giving the UN Security Council authority over how to enforce that resolution. The US claiming that as casus belli for an independent invasion with no UN ratification was the international equivalent of vigilantism.

Unless you have some novel theory of international law in which security council members have the right to unilaterally launch armed invasions of nations which violate UN resolutions? Because I'm sure Russia will be thrilled to hear that you're okay with it launching an invasion of Israel any time it likes.

While I believe that Bush's intelligence did state that Saddam had WMD's

You can believe whatever ridiculous fantasy you like, but what actually happened here in reality is that the CIA had a grab-bag of conflicting evidence and that Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld cherry-picked anything that made it look like Iraq might have weapons while utterly ignoring anything that showed it didn't.

However that does not make the war illegal and it certainly does not make the war inhumane. I guess in your mind the HUMANE thing to do would be to allow Saddam to continue to rape and murder and torture and mutilate innocent men, women in children?

You seem a lot happier now that it's us raping and murdering and torturing and mutilating innocent men women and children. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me but I mean, I'm not an unrepentant sadist, so different strokes I guess?

Get in touch with reality, sir.

Bwahahaha
 
So when we sit down to tea and scones with Ahmadinejad and he still nukes Israel, what will you say then?

I'll say "Hey, how did I get into this bizarro universe where a figurehead with no actual power has taken an utterly suicidal action that will result in his nation being wiped off the face of the Earth?"

I mean here on Earth-1 decisions tend to be made by leaders who have actual governmental power who tend as a rule to not actually commit national suicide, but maybe in the Antimatter Universe or Hypertime Earth 33975-C or whereever you hang out, things work differently?
 
I'll say "Hey, how did I get into this bizarro universe where a figurehead with no actual power has taken an utterly suicidal action that will result in his nation being wiped off the face of the Earth?"

I mean here on Earth-1 decisions tend to be made by leaders who have actual governmental power who tend as a rule to not actually commit national suicide, but maybe in the Antimatter Universe or Hypertime Earth 33975-C or whereever you hang out, things work differently?

He has the power to lobby the Ayotollahs. And considering they share his views on Israel, I wouldn't be surprised if they carried out such a decision.

I apologize for not including the Ayatollahs in my post. I will edit it. And I apologize to those who unfortunately had to read Captain Sarcastic's overly-technical, nonsensical rant because of it.

Also, our friend has conveniently ignored the number of posts I made acknowledging that the Ayatollahs have supreme power in Iran. So it looks like his post was totally without merit.
 
And considering they share his views on Israel, I wouldn't be surprised if they carried out such a decision.

You wouldn't be suprised if the Ayatollahs decided to commit national suicide? I mean I'm pretty sure the Ayatollahs are like most national leaders in that they don't want themselves slaughtered and their entire nation reduced to an enormous glass parking lot at the hands by a nation with vastly superior military capability. But if you've got some reason I should believe that Iran's leaders are uniquely willing to initiate their own nuclear annihilation then by all means do share.
 
You wouldn't be suprised if the Ayatollahs decided to commit national suicide? I mean I'm pretty sure the Ayatollahs are like most national leaders in that they don't want themselves slaughtered and their entire nation reduced to an enormous glass parking lot at the hands by a nation with vastly superior military capability.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. They have expressed their concerns that they want to see Israel wiped off the map, and if that does happen some day at the hands of the Iranians, then I simply wouldn't be shocked.
 
They have expressed their concerns that they want to see Israel wiped off the map

Ever hear of the Cold War? Moscow expressed lots of sentiments that they wanted to see America wiped off the map. Yet shockingly they never decided to initiate their own annihilation by trying to do so. And they were even at least capable of inflicting the same annihilation on us; whereas Iran's best outcome - in this hypothetical universe where they even have any kind of nuclear weaponry - looks something like "we get to maybe destroy one Israeli city, and in response, Israel and the United States turn every square mile of our nation into a nuclear wasteland and convert every living human within our borders into carbon atoms."

I mean I express lots of sentiments that things I don't like should be wiped off the face of the Earth, I'm pretty sure most people I know don't immediately leap to the conclusion that I would like to see that happen at the cost of utterly annihilating myself, everybody I have ever known, the entire nation I live in, and all evidence that any of us had ever existed. I'm pretty sure most people would be quite shocked if I decided my personal dislikes were worth the nuclear annihilation of everything around me.
 
NEW YORK — Six Bahá’í leaders in Iran were arrested and taken to the notorious Evin prison yesterday in a sweep that is ominously similar to episodes in the 1980s when scores of Iranian Bahá’í leaders were summarily rounded up and killed
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The six men and women, all members of the national-level group that helped see to the minimum needs of Bahá’ís in Iran, were in their homes Wednesday morning when government intelligence agents entered and spent up to five hours searching each home, before taking them away.
The seventh member of the national coordinating group was arrested in early March in Mashhad after being summoned by the Ministry of Intelligence office there on an ostensibly trivial matter.
“We protest in the strongest terms the arrests of our fellow Bahá'ís in Iran,” said Bani Dugal, the principal representative of the Bahá’í International Community to the United Nations. “Their only crime is their practice of the Bahá’í Faith.”
“Especially disturbing is how this latest sweep recalls the wholesale arrest or abduction of the members of two national Iranian Bahá’í governing councils in the early 1980s -- which led to the disappearance or execution of 17 individuals,” she said.
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“The early morning raids on the homes of these prominent Bahá’ís were well coordinated, and it is clear they represent a high-level effort to strike again at the Bahá’ís and to intimidate the Iranian Bahá’í community at large,” said Ms. Dugal.
Arrested yesterday were: Mrs. Fariba Kamalabadi, Mr. Jamaloddin Khanjani, Mr. Afif Naeimi, Mr. Saeid Rezaie, Mr. Behrouz Tavakkoli, and Mr. Vahid Tizfahm. All live in Tehran. Mrs. Kamalabadi, Mr. Khanjani, and Mr. Tavakkoli have been previously arrested and then released after periods ranging from five days to four months.
Arrested in Mashhad on 5 March 2008 was Mrs. Mahvash Sabet, who also resides in Tehran. Mrs. Sabet was summoned to Mashhad by the Ministry of Intelligence, ostensibly on the grounds that she was required to answer questions related to the burial of an individual in the Bahá’í cemetery in that city.
On 21 August 1980, all nine members of the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá’ís of Iran were abducted and disappeared without a trace. It is certain that they were killed.
The National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá’ís of Iran was reconstituted soon after that but was again ravaged by the execution of eight of its members on 27 December 1981.
A number of members of local Bahá’í governing councils, known as local Spiritual Assemblies, were also arrested and executed in the early 1980s, before an international outcry forced the government to slow its execution of Bahá’ís. Since 1979, more than 200 Bahá’ís have been killed or executed in Iran, although none have been executed since 1998.
In 1983, the government outlawed all formal Bahá’í administrative institutions and the Iranian Bahá’í community responded by disbanding its National Spiritual Assembly, which is an elected governing council, along with some 400 local level elected governing councils. Bahá'ís throughout Iran also suspended nearly all of their regular organizational activity.
The informal national-level coordinating group, known as the Friends, was established with the knowledge of the government to help cope with the diverse needs of Iran’s 300,000-member Baháí community, which is the country’s largest religious minority.
http://news.bahai.org/story/632


(CNN) -- Six Baha'i leaders in Iran were seized and imprisoned this week, the religious group said. The act prompted condemnation and concern from the movement and a top American religious freedom panel.


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A U.S. panel says attacks on Iran's Baha'is have increased since Mahmoud Ahmadinejad became president.




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Iranian intelligence agents searched the homes of the six on Wednesday and then whisked them away, according to the Baha'i's World News Service. The report said the six are in Evin prison and that the arrests follow the detention in March of another Baha'i leader.
The Iranian Foreign Ministry could not immediately be reached for comment, and the incident has not been mentioned in Iran's state-run media.
"Their only crime is their practice of the Baha'i faith," said Bani Dugal, the principal representative of the Baha'i international community to the United Nations.
The U.S. State Department issued a statement Friday "strongly" condeming the arrests, which it said were "a clear violation of the Iranian regime's international commitments and obligations to respect international religious freedom norms.
"We urge the authorities to release all Baha'is currently in detention and cease their ongoing harassment of the Iranian Baha'i community," the U.S. statement said.
The group -- regarded as the largest non-Muslim religious minority in Iran -- says the arrests are reminiscent of roundups and killings of Baha'is that took place in Iran two decades ago.

"Especially disturbing is how this latest sweep recalls the wholesale arrest or abduction of the members of two national Iranian Baha'i governing councils in the early 1980s -- which led to the disappearance or execution of 17 individuals," Dugal said.
"The early morning raids on the homes of these prominent Baha'is were well-coordinated, and it is clear they represent a high-level effort to strike again at the Baha'is and to intimidate the Iranian Baha'i community at large," she added.
The United States Commission on International Religious Freedom -- a government panel that advises the president and Congress -- condemned the Wednesday arrests, as well as another in March. The commission chairman called the acts the "latest sign of the rapidly deteriorating status of religious freedom and other human rights in Iran."
The commission said the seven were members of an informal Baha'i group that tended to the needs of the community after the Iranian government banned all formal Baha'i activity in 1983.
The commission chairman, Michael Cromartie, echoed the fears that the "development signals a return to the darkest days of repression in Iran in the 1980s when Baha'is were routinely arrested, imprisoned, and executed."
The Baha'is are regarded as "apostates" in Iran and have been persecuted there for years.
"Since 1979, Iranian authorities have killed more than 200 Baha'i leaders, thousands have been arrested and imprisoned, and more than 10,000 have been dismissed from government and university jobs," the commission said.
The commission said that since President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad came to power a few years ago, Baha'is "have been harassed, physically attacked, arrested, and imprisoned."
"During the past year, young Baha'i schoolchildren in primary and secondary schools increasingly have been attacked, vilified, pressured to convert to Islam, and in some cases, expelled on account of their religion."
The commission said other groups in the predominantly Shiite Muslim country of Iran, such Sufis and Christians, are subject to intimidation and harassment. Ahmadinejad's inflammatory statements about Israel have "created a climate of fear" among the country's Jews.
The Baha'is say they have 5 million members across the globe, and about 300,000 in Iran.
The Baha'is say their faith "is the youngest of the world's independent religions" and that its basic theme is that "humanity is one single race and that the day has come for its unification in one global society."
They say their founder, Baha'u'llah (1817-1892), is regarded by Baha'is as "the most recent in the line of Messengers of God that stretches back beyond recorded time and that includes Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Christ and Muhammad."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/16/iran.bahais/index.html



I'm not posting this to say "look at me I'm a Baha'i" but to show you all how the Government of Iran has once again violated the protection set upon the people of the world and their freedom of Religion. These Baha'is weren't young and in perfect health. My Parents knew two of them and they say they were very kind people. If you guys could just pass on the message by word of mouth, email, facebook etc or pray for these poor souls and friends of my family, it would be much appreciated.

With an informed international community, the Iranian government will feel intimidated and hopefully let them go.
 
Another sad stage that country is going through. I'm sorry to hear about this.
 
This reminds me of the kindd of things the Soviets and Nazis would do to people.
 
Ever heard of Mona? She was a 16 year old girl who was teaching a children's class to Baha'i children when the police came in, abducted her, did God know what to her and other female Baha'is in prison and then they were asked to renounce their faith. They refused and were taken to be hung. Mona asked to be hung last so she could pray for the courage of those before her, and at last when it was her turn, she kissed the rope and put it on herself.

The Iranian Government has been very unjust since the revolution. And if you guys were wondering, the USA helped bring Khomeini back into the country after the Shah exiled him.
 
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