The Iran Thread

If it's proven Iran's helping the insurgency kill American troops, do we invade Iran?

  • yes

  • no

  • not sure


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CNN.com said:
U.S. report: Iran stopped nuclear weapons work in 2003

* Story Highlights
* Declassified summary of intelligence estimate on Iran's nuclear work released
* Estimate says Tehran is "less determined to develop nuclear weapons"
* Report: Iran unlikely to have enough material for nuclear bomb until 2010
* But White House official says Iran remains a threat

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Iran halted work toward a nuclear weapon under international scrutiny in 2003 and is unlikely to be able to produce enough enriched uranium for a bomb until 2010 to 2015, a U.S. intelligence report says.

A declassified summary of the latest National Intelligence Estimate found with "high confidence" that the Islamic republic stopped an effort to develop nuclear weapons in the fall of 2003.

The estimate is less severe than a 2005 report that judged the Iranian leadership was "determined to develop nuclear weapons despite its international obligations and international pressure."

But the latest report says Iran -- which declared its ability to produced enriched uranium for a civilian energy program in 2006 -- could reverse that decision and eventually produce a nuclear weapon if it wanted to do so.

Enriched uranium at low concentrations can be used to fuel nuclear power plants, but much higher concentrations are needed to yield a nuclear explosion.

"We judge with moderate confidence that the earliest possible date Iran would be technically capable of producing enough highly enriched uranium for a weapon is late 2009, but that this is very unlikely," the report says. A more likely time frame for that production is between 2010 and 2015, it concludes.

Iran has insisted its nuclear program is strictly aimed at producing electricity, and the country has refused the U.N. Security Council's demand to halt its enrichment program.

Monday's report represents the consensus of U.S. intelligence agencies. It suggests that a combination of "threats of intensified international scrutiny and pressures, along with opportunities for Iran to achieve its security, prestige and goals for regional influence in other ways," could persuade the Iranian leadership to continue its suspension of nuclear weapons research.

Available intelligence suggests the Iranian leadership is guided "by a cost-benefit approach," not a headlong rush to develop a bomb, the report concludes.

The International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, has reported that Iran is cooperating with inspectors by providing access to declared nuclear material, documents and facilities. However, the agency also said Iran is withholding information in other areas, and as a result, the IAEA's knowledge about the status of the program is "diminishing."

Iran says its uranium enrichment work is allowed under the 1968 Non-Proliferation Treaty. The Security Council has passed two rounds of sanctions against Tehran, but Washington missed its goal of reaching consensus on tighter restrictions by the end of November, the State Department said last week.

U.S. National Security adviser Stephen Hadley expressed hope after Monday's announcement, but he said Iran remains a serious threat.

"The estimate offers grounds for hope that the problem can be solved diplomatically -- without the use of force -- as the administration has been trying to do," Hadley said in a statement.

"But the intelligence also tells us that the risk of Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon remains a very serious problem."

The report comes amid widespread accusations that the Bush administration is attempting to maneuver the United States into a conflict with Iran, which it accuses of meddling in the war in Iraq. In October, the United States designated elements of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps as supporters of terrorism.

NIEs examine current capabilities and vulnerabilities and, perhaps more importantly, consider future developments. Policymakers usually request the estimates, but the intelligence community also can initiate them.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/03/iran.nuclear/index.html

once again, the bush administration has tried to lie to the american public to gain support for another misguided attempt at stirring up trouble in the middle east. the article below also mentions that the national intelligence estimate (NIE) the above article references was supposed to be released last year, but the white house wanted all dissenting views removed from it and they knew damn well that they were giving us false information with their claims of a possible world war 3 caused by iran's nuke program.

CommonDreams.org said:
Cheney Tried to Stifle Dissent in Iran NIE
by Gareth Porter

WASHINGTON - A National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran has been held up for more than a year in an effort to force the intelligence community to remove dissenting judgments on the Iranian nuclear programme, and thus make the document more supportive of U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s militarily aggressive policy toward Iran, according to accounts of the process provided by participants to two former Central Intelligence Agency officers.

But this pressure on intelligence analysts, obviously instigated by Cheney himself, has not produced a draft estimate without those dissenting views, these sources say. The White House has now apparently decided to release the unsatisfactory draft NIE, but without making its key findings public.1109 02

A former CIA intelligence officer who has asked not to be identified told IPS that an official involved in the NIE process says the Iran estimate was ready to be published a year ago but has been delayed because the director of national intelligence wanted a draft reflecting a consensus on key conclusions — particularly on Iran’s nuclear programme.

The NIE coordinates the judgments of 16 intelligence agencies on a specific country or issue.

There is a split in the intelligence community on how much of a threat the Iranian nuclear programme poses, according to the intelligence official’s account. Some analysts who are less independent are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the alarmist view coming from Cheney’s office, but others have rejected that view.

The draft NIE first completed a year ago, which had included the dissenting views, was not acceptable to the White House, according to the former intelligence officer. “They refused to come out with a version that had dissenting views in it,” he says.

As recently as early October, the official involved in the process was said to be unclear about whether an NIE would be circulated and, if so, what it would say.

Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi provided a similar account, based on his own sources in the intelligence community. He told IPS that intelligence analysts have had to review and rewrite their findings three times, because of pressure from the White House.

“The White House wants a document that it can use as evidence for its Iran policy,” says Giraldi. Despite pressures on them to change their dissenting conclusions, however, Giraldi says some analysts have refused to go along with conclusions that they believe are not supported by the evidence.

In October 2006, Giraldi wrote in The American Conservative that the NIE on Iran had already been completed, but that Cheney’s office had objected to its findings on both the Iranian nuclear programme and Iran’s role in Iraq. The draft NIE did not conclude that there was confirming evidence that Iran was arming the Shiite insurgents in Iraq, according to Giraldi.

Giraldi said the White House had decided to postpone any decision on the internal release of the NIE until after the November 2006 elections.

Cheney’s desire for a “clean” NIE that could be used to support his aggressive policy toward Iran was apparently a major factor in the replacement of John Negroponte as director of national intelligence in early 2007.

Negroponte had angered the neoconservatives in the administration by telling the press in April 2006 that the intelligence community believed that it would still be “a number of years off” before Iran would be “likely to have enough fissile material to assemble into or to put into a nuclear weapon, perhaps into the next decade.”

Neoconservatives immediately attacked Negroponte for the statement, which merely reflected the existing NIE on Iran issued in spring 2005. Robert G. Joseph, the undersecretary of state for arms control and an ally of Cheney, contradicted Negroponte the following day. He suggested that Iran’s nuclear programme was nearing the “point of no return” — an Israeli concept referring to the mastery of industrial-scale uranium enrichment.

Frank J. Gaffney, a protégé of neoconservative heavyweight Richard Perle, complained that Negroponte was “absurdly declaring the Iranian regime to be years away from having nuclear weapons”.

On Jan. 5, 2007, Pres. George W. Bush announced the nomination of retired Vice Admiral John Michael “Mike” McConnell to be director of national intelligence. McConnell was approached by Cheney himself about accepting the position, according to Newsweek.

McConnell was far more amenable to White House influence than his predecessor. On Feb. 27, one week after his confirmation, he told the Senate Armed Services Committee he was “comfortable saying it’s probable” that the alleged export of explosively formed penetrators to Shiite insurgents in Iraq was linked to the highest leadership in Iran.

Cheney had been making that charge, but Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of Defence Robert M. Gates, as well as Negroponte, had opposed it.

A public event last spring indicated that White House had ordered a reconsideration of the draft NIE’s conclusion on how many years it would take Iran to produce a nuclear weapon. The previous Iran estimate completed in spring 2005 had estimated it as 2010 to 2015.

Two weeks after Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad announced in mid-April that Iran would begin producing nuclear fuel on an industrial scale, the chairman of the National Intelligence Council, Thomas Fingar, said in an interview with National Public Radio that the completion of the NIE on Iran had been delayed while the intelligence community determined whether its judgment on the time frame within which Iran might produce a nuclear weapon needed to be amended.

Fingar said the estimate “might change”, citing “new reporting” from the International Atomic Energy Agency as well as “some other new information we have”. And then he added, “We are serious about reexamining old evidence.”

That extraordinary revelation about the NIE process, which was obviously ordered by McConnell, was an unsubtle signal to the intelligence community that the White House was determined to obtain a more alarmist conclusion on the Iranian nuclear programme.

A decision announced in late October indicated, however, that Cheney did not get the consensus findings on the nuclear programme and Iran’s role in Iraq that he had wanted. On Oct. 27, David Shedd, a deputy to McConnell, told a congressional briefing that McConnell had issued a directive making it more difficult to declassify the key judgments of national intelligence estimates.

That reversed a Bush administration practice of releasing summaries of “key judgments” in NIEs that began when the White House made public the key judgments from the controversial 2002 NIE on Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction programme in July 2003.

The decision to withhold key judgments on Iran from the public was apparently part of a White House strategy for reducing the potential damage of publishing the estimate with the inclusion of dissenting views.

As of early October, officials involved in the NIE were “throwing their hands up in frustration” over the refusal of the administration to allow the estimate to be released, according to the former intelligence officer. But the Iran NIE is now expected to be circulated within the administration in late November, says Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst and founder of the anti-war group Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

The release of the Iran NIE would certainly intensify the bureaucratic political struggle over Iran policy. If the NIE includes both dissenting views on key issues, a campaign of selective leaking to news media of language from the NIE that supports Cheney’s line on Iran will soon follow, as well as leaks of the dissenting views by his opponents.

Both sides may be anticipating another effort by Cheney to win Bush’s approval of a significant escalation of military pressure on Iran in early 2008.

© 2007 Inter Press Service

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/09/5117/

those lying, warmongering mother****ers! :cmad:
 
bumper cars.

this is huge. i figured there'd be more outrage over this, but i guess people are used to being lied to by this administration.
 
bumper cars.

this is huge. i figured there'd be more outrage over this, but i guess people are used to being lied to by this administration.

This is huge. But I'm having a hard time trying to determine if the administration is right or not for trying to speed up the process over the likelihood that Iran will become a problem at some point in the future (it seems this is a common belief regardless of what side of the political aisle politicians are on). I mean, if we wait until they DO produce a nuke, won't it be too late?

I just don't know what to think anymore, tbh.
 
This is huge. But I'm having a hard time trying to determine if the administration is right or not for trying to speed up the process over the likelihood that Iran will become a problem at some point in the future (it seems this is a common belief regardless of what side of the political aisle politicians are on). I mean, if we wait until they DO produce a nuke, won't it be too late?

I just don't know what to think anymore, tbh.

You have committed a Pre-Crime! Please stay where you are! Officers have been dispatched to apprehend you! :dry:

jag
 
bumper cars.

this is huge. i figured there'd be more outrage over this, but i guess people are used to being lied to by this administration.
I noticed that Bush supporters are going to support this idiot no matter what he has done. He has lied all through out his presidency but yet people wanted to impeach Clinton cuase he lied about a bj. :whatever: Bush is screwing this country up bigtime. I use to watch the 700 Club but it seems like that idiot Pat Robertson seems to Bush's best friend and is using the religious community to support him. I can't believe how blind some people can be when it comes to religion! :huh: I said all that to say this, as long as this idiot is in office, we are a button away from WW3. He and Cheney seem intent on finding dirt on certain countries, particularly Iraq and Iran, when reports have come back that there is nothing there.
 
This is huge. But I'm having a hard time trying to determine if the administration is right or not for trying to speed up the process over the likelihood that Iran will become a problem at some point in the future (it seems this is a common belief regardless of what side of the political aisle politicians are on). I mean, if we wait until they DO produce a nuke, won't it be too late?

I just don't know what to think anymore, tbh.

Case in point! You believe everything that Bush's staff say! :whatever:
 
This is huge. But I'm having a hard time trying to determine if the administration is right or not for trying to speed up the process over the likelihood that Iran will become a problem at some point in the future (it seems this is a common belief regardless of what side of the political aisle politicians are on). I mean, if we wait until they DO produce a nuke, won't it be too late?

I just don't know what to think anymore, tbh.

i think the thing that scares me the most is that this is almost exactly what they did to convince us that we needed to invade iraq so quickly. they're basically trying to rush us into another conflict and they're using their favorite trick to do it, fearmongering. i can't believe how little they've learned from their mistakes. even now that this NIE has been released they're still trying play up the fear of them possibly, someday building a nuke arsenal. their national security advisor, stephen hadley, even brought up WW3 after all this was revealed so they're still obsessed with war over this ****ing lie. there's absolutely no reason to believe them if they try to move towards a military resolution for this. we've got more than enough time to be patient and use diplomacy. what an irresponsible group of nitwits these guys are.
 
the US will still invade.
I mean, without a pretty parade abroad for the awesome military toys, people might start to notice things aren't exactly kosher at home anymore.
 
Case in point! You believe everything that Bush's staff say! :whatever:

Wrong. I didn't say that. I said I'm torn on what to make of this situation.

I do NOT believe we should invade Iran, but I do believe they are undermining progress in Iraq.

Instead of coming to illogical conclusions about someone else's position, why not share your own and actually contribute something to the topic?
 
Wrong. I didn't say that. I said I'm torn on what to make of this situation.

I do NOT believe we should invade Iran, but I do believe they are undermining progress in Iraq.

Instead of coming to illogical conclusions about someone else's position, why not share your own and actuall contribute something to the topic?

I did share my opinion. :huh: And I'm saying there shouldn't be anything to really be torn about. It seems like Iran has complied with international rules, but the Bush admin isn't going for it. They seem dead intent on starting a war even though we are involved in a war with Iraq. I just don't believe everything the media feeds me. Especially after there were so called "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq but yet we didn't find a thing. It's also funny how they looked in every man hole to get Saddam but can't find Bin Laden who attacked us on american soil. This current regime in office has just re-lost all my confidence in them.
 
I did share my opinion. :huh: And I'm saying there shouldn't be anything to really be torn about. It seems like Iran has complied with international rules, but the Bush admin isn't going for it. They seem dead intent on starting a war even though we are involved in a war with Iraq. I just don't believe everything the media feeds me. Especially after there were so called "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq but yet we didn't find a thing. It's also funny how they looked in every man hole to get Saddam but can't find Bin Laden who attacked us on american soil. This current regime in office has just re-lost all my confidence in them.

Problem is, I'm not convinced any of those currently running for Pres would do anything differently or better.

In my own ever so humble opinion, the U.S. is doomed - it's just a matter of time.
 
would they really stand to gain from this?
the minute they made a move they would get invaded or worse.

I haven't done a whole lot of research on this (if researching this will actually even yield any information at all), but from what I've heard Iran is supplying the 'insurgents' with weapons and people.

Who knows.
 
I haven't done a whole lot of research on this (if researching this will actually even yield any information at all), but from what I've heard Iran is supplying the 'insurgents' with weapons and people.

Who knows.

:whatever: Again, this is from the same administration that has been doing illegal phone tapping on it's citizens and said their were WOMD in Iraq.
 
I haven't done a whole lot of research on this (if researching this will actually even yield any information at all), but from what I've heard Iran is supplying the 'insurgents' with weapons and people.

Who knows.

many of those claims have been withdrawn by the administration. a lot of it was exaggerated.
 
many of those claims have been withdrawn by the administration. a lot of it was exaggerated.

:whatever: Again, this is from the same administration that has been doing illegal phone tapping on it's citizens and said their were WOMD in Iraq.
Actually, the claims originated from the military. I have a buddy over there right now (well, he's actually in Germany now for debriefing and he's coming home from his second tour in Iraq now) who's seen all kinds of IED's and the like.

There's a consensus over there that some of the more effective and newer IED's are Iran-made. Doesn't necessarily make it true, but it seems to me that those guys would know. I mean hell, they've been there how many years now?
 
I haven't done a whole lot of research on this (if researching this will actually even yield any information at all), but from what I've heard Iran is supplying the 'insurgents' with weapons and people.

Who knows.
I saw Charlie Rose ask Aḥmadīnezhād if they were supplying them and it was ridiculous.

He would. not. say. "No.".....no matter what.
Which, I don't get, if you're secretly doing something like that, then why not lie about it?
It's not like, if caught, the U.S. would go, "Well, Iran was arming our enemies. BUT, before you light up your torches and sharpen your pitchforks, let's remember that they never SAID they weren't. ;):up:"

:huh:

And Islamic countries are well-known for saying one thing in English, for the "world", and saying the exact opposite to their own people, in these places where lying to an Infidel isn't a sin.....so saving face upon returning home to their Islamic Barbarian buddies doesn't make sense either. :huh:



But anyway, Charlie got pissed and asked him why he can't just outright say, "No, we're not aiding the insurgents.", and he'd just keep saying, "Well....supplying weapons to them, and, :D....helping them is not, LOL...not something....we, uh...would....we'd never want to DO that! :D"

Then Charlie said, "So you are NOT DOING IT?!?"
And he'd go, "Why...:D...why would we want to do that?"

So Charlie would go, "Right! So, can you tell me now that you are not doing it?"
And he'd go "It's, just not....something we would do."



It was maddening.
 
What this shows is how poor American intelligence really is. Once again, we see why America does not make the top 3 in the world's best spy programs. And in that business 2nd and 3rd aren't good enough. Recall the accusations of Iraq's WMD program that helped start the Iraq invasion.

But what's worse is how the politicians just manipulate what they do have to suit their own agendas. That's what's really the problem here. :cmad:
 
Ya okay... :cwink: :cwink: :cwink:

Was that sarcasm? Because starting a war over bad intelligence and lies isn't funny.

P.S. America really doesn't make the top 3 in the world's leading spy programs. Britain and Israel have that prestige (if you approve of such activity).
 
Was that sarcasm? Because starting a war over bad intelligence and lies isn't funny.

P.S. America really doesn't make the top 3 in the world's leading spy programs. Britain and Israel have that prestige (if you approve of such activity).

The comment was geared at the title of the thread... not your post... I didn't even read the article and could care less about current world issues these days... unless all hell is breaking lose somewhere.
 
Look around. You'll find enough war in enough places to call it hell.
 
oh no! there's no way bush will be elected for a third term now!
 
Wall Crawler, Wilhelm - interesting stuff.

What sayeth those who still believe this 'report' over and above the people who are actually there saying the opposite thing, or what Wilhelm said about Iran's president NOT denying it?

Again, I don't really know what to make of it. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have enough information to have formulated an opinion either way.
 
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