The Flash The Iris West/Candice Patton Thread - Part 1

[Eni]

I wasn't talking about the New 52 specifically, I was talking about comic books in general over the entireity of their existence, not just something current in one heroes book.

As for the rest, you're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is, the drop off in ratings I think is entirely down to the poor choice of villain in season 3, a third Speedster in a row was redundant and Savitar was by far the most boring of the 3 they have used.

You clearly want a boys own action adventure show that is about heroics and fighting bad guys rather than a more rounded drama that also features strong human relationships, I mean take Iris out of it for a moment and I'd say Cisco, Joe, Harry and Caitlin are all excellent characters with their own interesting arcs, the Barry/Joe relationship has been one of the highlights of the series IMO, but like I say it sounds like you just want all Flash all of the time, which is you're right, but still just an opinion.

I agree that the relationship between Barry and Iris has always have an important role in the Flash, and they integrated it well (she was his lightening rod, after all , but the **** with the drama and stuff is new and sucks.

Well, thank you for granting me to have my own opinion, that's kind of you.

The drop off in ratings is due to the show in general being crap. The majority of people who dropped the show I know have the same issues with it than I do. Then again, I don't know all of humanity, so I'm sure different people dropped it for different reasons, but my opinion certainly is not unique in that the Flash show really is continuing to get worse when it comes to story and characters. Then again, your opinion is just as valid as mine, so if you like the show and find the writing amazing good for you.

Don't put words in my mouth, dear, I do love drama, I do even like the idea of romance in the show, but the Flash, at the end of the day, is a comic book that focuses mainly on Barry and him being the Flash, thus overcoming villains and not him having fits of insecurity where he needs Iris to hold his hand and tell him that everything will be okay and that he is a good hero. You want romance-drama-comedy show? Fine, why not, it's just not my cup of tea. And, please, don't try to portray the show as something that it isn't. It isn't deep, neither emotionally nor when it come to its characters. The writers go from one trope to the next, they dumb down characters to allow them to make the same issues again and again, they stunt their emotional development so that they still keep stuff from each other despite how they've learned by now that that usually leads to **** going down. The relationships between the characters are not what you would find in real life, they are CW relationships, nothing any writer will aspire to have in his own works. Don't take me wrong, there are a couple of good scenes, but mostly it is really turd they have been producing since season two. Sure, having crappy, repeditive villains hurt but this is by far not why so many people have dropped this show.

Look, if you enjoy this show, that's great. What I stated above is just my opinion. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it, it is just how I see things, and I envy you, I wanted to have a show of my favorite comic book character I can enjoy and I did not get it. You, on the other hand, have, and that's great.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I agree that the relationship between Barry and Iris has always have an important role in the Flash, and they integrated it well (she was his lightening rod, after all , but the **** with the drama and stuff is new and sucks.

Well, thank you for granting me to have my own opinion, that's kind of you.

The drop off in ratings is due to the show in general being crap. The majority of people who dropped the show I know have the same issues with it than I do. Then again, I don't know all of humanity, so I'm sure different people dropped it for different reasons, but my opinion certainly is not unique in that the Flash show really is continuing to get worse when it comes to story and characters. Then again, your opinion is just as valid as mine, so if you like the show and find the writing amazing good for you.

Don't put words in my mouth, dear, I do love drama, I do even like the idea of romance in the show, but the Flash, at the end of the day, is a comic book that focuses mainly on Barry and him being the Flash, thus overcoming villains and not him having fits of insecurity where he needs Iris to hold his hand and tell him that everything will be okay and that he is a good hero. You want romance-drama-comedy show? Fine, why not, it's just not my cup of tea. And, please, don't try to portray the show as something that it isn't. It isn't deep, neither emotionally nor when it come to its characters. The writers go from one trope to the next, they dumb down characters to allow them to make the same issues again and again, they stunt their emotional development so that they still keep stuff from each other despite how they've learned by now that that usually leads to **** going down. The relationships between the characters are not what you would find in real life, they are CW relationships, nothing any writer will aspire to have in his own works. Don't take me wrong, there are a couple of good scenes, but mostly it is really turd they have been producing since season two. Sure, having crappy, repeditive villains hurt but this is by far not why so many people have dropped this show.

Look, if you enjoy this show, that's great. What I stated above is just my opinion. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it, it is just how I see things, and I envy you, I wanted to have a show of my favorite comic book character I can enjoy and I did not get it. You, on the other hand, have, and that's great.

Well thank you for granting me that too dear, this was so nice and civil.

 

[Eni]

Well thank you for granting me that too dear, this was so nice and civil.

No problem, civil is always better than getting at each other's throat - though sometimes it is hard to succeed there, since emotions can be a bxxxx. xD

 

[Avenging Angel]

I agree that the relationship between Barry and Iris has always have an important role in the Flash, and they integrated it well (she was his lightening rod, after all , but the **** with the drama and stuff is new and sucks.

the Flash, at the end of the day, is a comic book that focuses mainly on Barry and him being the Flash, thus overcoming villains and not him having fits of insecurity where he needs Iris to hold his hand and tell him that everything will be okay and that he is a good hero. You want romance-drama-comedy show? It isn't deep, neither emotionally nor when it come to its characters. The writers go from one trope to the next, they dumb down characters to allow them to make the same issues again and again, they stunt their emotional development so that they still keep stuff from each other despite how they've learned by now that that usually leads to **** going down. The relationships between the characters are not what you would find in real life, they are CW relationships, nothing any writer will aspire to have in his own works. Don't take me wrong, there are a couple of good scenes, but mostly it is really turd they have been producing since season two. Sure, having crappy, repetitive villains hurt but this is by far not why so many people have dropped this show.

You raise some great points here. The "lightning rod" line comes from Wally & Linda's love story in the comics, another thing the writers stole for Barry and Iris.

It goes back to the style the network is known for. Cheap drama and propping up love interests to make them seem way more important than they are. The Lana Lang fetish.

Yeah, especially in 4x15 where every scientist and speedster could not come up with a solution to stopping the bomb, but a barista with a tumblr blog who wasn't even in the scene where Barry was brought back with the quark sphere suddenly grew a brain? It was very cringe worthy and made no sense. Caitlin, Harry and Cisco should have had that moment, at least Harry and Cisco since they are the experts. Iris was %100 against bringing Barry back so her being in the know out of nowhere was another lazy attempt from the writers to give her fake importance. She didn't need that ego boost, especially when Jay gave her direct credit for it. Just annoying.

For me it was Mid-way into Season 2. Having Iris know his identity was one of the worst moments of the show and to this day served no purpose. She was better off not knowing.

 

[Primal Slayer]

So Iris is getting back into journalism, why was that an important thing for her to do at this point in her journey on Team Flash?

Well, I think this episode clearly shows that…having Barry’s powers for an episode really made her realize what she’s passionate about. She understands Barry having speed is what gets him up in the morning and what he’s passionate about and I think it reignited for her that she still has to find that and that journalism is the thing.

What did that feel like to see this evolution of your character Iris go from journalist to now being the matriarch of the show?

It felt good, and not just for me, but for all the fans that look up to Iris. I think it’s been a struggle for whatever reason in the writing and developing of the show in giving her a purpose.

I think they are making really great strides in giving Iris her own storyline, her own agency. Again, it’s a lot of the fans saying they want more, they want a full flushed out characters. It’s not enough to be diverse in your casting; you have to service those characters, you have to make them fully well rounded because people are watching.

Did having superpowers reevaluate anything about your character?
Patton: It kind of reignited my love for the character, not that it ever went away, but you do these shows for four years, 23 episodes, it kind of can feel monotonous.

It just reignited my love for her and her tenacity and courage and strength and I think what she means to me and what she means to a lot of fans. People that love Iris were just over the moon [when they heard found out she was getting superpowers] and it reminded me how big [her] impact is.

It’s always something that you know I could use a reminder of and it’s always something that makes me excited to go to work.

Candice, how’s it being a part of the CW network and their initiatives on diversity?

This pioneering role that I have got to do, I feel like my community, the black community, doesn’t really know about me and I also feel like we haven’t been able to reach them in a correct way, which is unfortunate.

We have so many diverse actors and so many interesting things happening on the network, and I just wanted to make sure we have more diverse outlets being involved to know what we are doing.

My character is traditionally white in the comic book and I feel like our community doesn’t know that. There’s a bunch of diverse comic book fans who may not even know about our show, or that they did some race bending, for the time, that was 2014, that was before we started seeing a lot more African American women pop into comic books and TV shows.

I feel like CW was at the forefront of trying to change that dynamic.

In today’s episode of The Flash, your character, Iris West Allen, develops superpowers, when you found out she gets superpowers, how did you first react?

I thought they were joking, only because I have been joking about it for the last three years. I didn’t really think it would ever happen, so, I was pretty shocked that they were actually going to go through with it but super excited at the same time.

Iris was never a black character in the comics, so what has that been like in representing her?

We changed the race of Iris for the show and I think it had a huge impact. I think it was successful, I think you see that happening a lot more on film and TV shows.

I think at the beginning people were hesitant, they were like we want to see Iris like in the comics. I think over the time, season after season, me showing that Iris is so much more than her skin color. Iris is about her heart and her character, so for me, it was really important to create a character that people could love regardless of what she looks like.

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/exclusive-candice-patton

 

[Avenging Angel]

"She's much more than her skin color." Riiiiiight.

Then why the need to mention that in every interview? Beginning to believe something is going on.

 

[Hunter Rider]

"She's much more than her skin color." Riiiiiight.

Then why the need to mention that in every interview? Beginning to believe something is going on.

She didn't bring it up, the interviewer did.

 

[Primal Slayer]

This has just become entertaining at this point. I need some popcorn.

 

[Avenging Angel]

It’s not enough to be diverse in your casting; you have to service those characters, you have to make them fully well rounded because people are watching.

Yeah, she never brought it up...What does your race have to do with a character being "well rounded"?

 

[Hunter Rider]

It’s not enough to be diverse in your casting; you have to service those characters, you have to make them fully well rounded because people are watching.

Yeah, she never brought it up...What does your race have to do with a character being "well rounded"?

It was in line with what was being asked, I can only assume you have little understanding of what it's like to be a minority, I don't either as I am as a white as ****, but if you weren't so tone deaf in your petty obsession with hating Candice, you'd realize why she included it in the answer, there's no point in throwing in characters of colour if they are just tokens, they have to have a purpose.

 

[Avenging Angel]

What did that feel like to see this evolution of your character Iris go from journalist to now being the matriarch of the show?

In no where did it state anything about her race, in her answer she just brings it up along with many other lies she puts out. She is just a token with no purpose. You guys are just as obsessed with loving her as I am with being opposed to her.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The point she was making was there's no point in casting diversity if you don't give the characters proper purpose, which played into the question about the importance of Iris arc of going from journalist to leader of the team, it means she actually had purpose and wasn't just a token black person.

The only obssessive is you, your posts expose you loud and clear, it's pretty much all you post about, you have the most posts in this Iris thread and you had the most posts by far in the previous Iris thread, you had 83 posts to my 15 and in the Killer Frost thread you have 104 posts to my 19, the difference is I have nothing bogus or viscous to say about either actress or character, ALL 100+ posts from you on Iris are you just bashing Candice or the character over and over like a bitter little Danielle Panabaker fanboy because you want her to be the female lead opposite Barry.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I don't act like you insulting Danielle is the same as you insulting my mom. Iris stans take things way too personally when facts are being presented to them. I'm not as invested in this as you. Only mild annoyance to the least developed character that you seem to have trouble refuting. You write paragraphs about things that have never happened. Savitar was a highlight from Season 3, not a hindrance, he didn't finish the job in killing Iris. It would have made the show bold.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don't act like you insulting Danielle is the same as you insulting my mom. Iris stans take things way too personally when facts are being presented to them. I'm not as invested in this as you. Only mild annoyance to the least developed character that you seem to have trouble refuting. You write paragraphs about things that have never happened. Savitar was a highlight from Season 3, not a hindrance, he didn't finish the job in killing Iris. It would have made the show bold.

No one is insulting Danielle though, so this line is utterly moot, like the rest of this post, you have some comprehension issues dude, you don't understand what the word fact means for starters, as you can't seem to differeniate between it and your opinion. As far as not being invested, that's a joke given you are the top poster in both threads, I only decided to post as I got tired of reading your ignorant trolling every time I clicked on this thread, and decided to call you on your ********.

 

[Avenging Angel]

The only one getting personal with all this is you. Measure my posts count all you want, I'm not the only critic that posts here as well as the episode threads and general discussion boards. I've noticed many of the original posters from 2014 have long since left. I don't see a lot of talk here in general. If something on the character new comes out, whoever is left is gonna speak on it, even if they disagree with your opinions. It's a fact that Iris is the least favored character episode by episode. Even if you like the actress, nobody can prove she is not.

 

[fan4stic]

The only one getting personal with all this is you. Measure my posts count all you want, I'm not the only critic that posts here as well as the episode threads and general discussion boards. I've noticed many of the original posters from 2014 have long since left. I don't see a lot of talk here in general. If something on the character new comes out, whoever is left is gonna speak on it, even if they disagree with your opinions. It's a fact that Iris is the least favored character episode by episode. Even if you like the actress, nobody can prove she is not.

You could've said the same thing about Laurel at a time, it doesn't mean the character was bad. Same with Iris.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The only one getting personal with all this is you. Measure my posts count all you want, I'm not the only critic that posts here as well as the episode threads and general discussion boards. I've noticed many of the original posters from 2014 have long since left. I don't see a lot of talk here in general. If something on the character new comes out, whoever is left is gonna speak on it, even if they disagree with your opinions. It's a fact that Iris is the least favored character episode by episode. Even if you like the actress, nobody can prove she is not.

I'm not getting personal, I'm getting factual over a systematic posting pattern aimed at 2 specific actresses over a long period of time. The last part isn't a fact, it's just a bunch of internet warriors targetting a specific character, it's not a reflection of the general audience. The reason the bulk of posters have left this section and the ones for the others shows is because the place is full of toxicity like the stuff you spread, I watch all the shows just as I did in 2014, I just don't bother with the forums on them anymore because they are full of whiny fanboys obssessed over certain characters, I'm only posting in this thread now because of the aforementioned toxic systematic posting I have witnessed in this thread over a sustained period of time.

 

[C. Lee]

I watch all the CW superhero shows. Seen every episode of them all. I record them all and burn to DVDs. I almost never post in any of their respective forums because I can't stand reading all the complaining and *****ing and moaning. Not posting in here doesn't mean someone isn't a fan of the show.

 

[Avenging Angel]

The reason the bulk of posters have left this section and the ones for the others shows is because the place is full of toxicity like the stuff you spread

Over the quality of the show dropping as time goes by? I don't have that much power.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Over the quality of the show dropping as time goes by? I don't have that much power.

It's not about power, it's what C. Lee just said, why would anyone get dragged down by a bunch of whining and spite when they can just enjoy the show and ignore this little nucleus of posters who want to foist their agenda on everyone else?

 

[Avenging Angel]

Just wait until the show comes back. If nothing changes upon the narrative my opinions won't change, neither will anyone who agrees with me which isn't a minority. In regards to what C Lee said, many don't post for their own reasons, my posts don't prevent the majority of people from posting. I'm not Highlander. People have their reasons, they don't care anymore, can't make the efforts because the writing has gotten so bad. Afraid of being called sexist and racist even though they aren't. I recall in the beginning people were afraid to speak out for being branded a racist. This reminds me of the criticism for Black Panther.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don't care about your opinion changing, that was never the point, and I'm not talking about you as some sole figure that has caused people to just give the section a miss, I'm talking about this little cluster of moaners and spite driven posters that make the section a chore to read or be involved with due to your glaringingly obvious agendas.

As far as racism or sexism goes in regards to characters, in your specific case I don't think it's either, I've already exposed your motivations, but if you think sexism in particular doesn't play a big part on these forums in why it's always the female characters getting bashed in the various shows........well, there's a bridge in Brooklyn for sale......

 

[CrimsonComet]

Just having a little lurk in this forum. I was drawn to this discussion. I will exit as easily as I entered.

One of the most comical and wonderous things about the character of Iris West-Allen played by Candice Patton is the endless obsession fans have with her. You've got her dedicated fandom (they had #RunIrisRun trending worldwide just like *that*), general fans who watch, go back to their normal lives and would need a dictionary to understand the word fandom. Then there's those who have a vitriol hatred for her.

You know? You can visualize the steam coming from their ears and the white knuckling of their palms. The disdain isn't just for Iris West-Allen, it extends to Candice Patton too, and boy is it quite interesting. Is it logical? Does the answer to that question even matter? No.

Why? Purely for the fact...No matter what. All of this. Year after year, has done nothing but work to her benefit. The fact that anyone can sit down and talk ad nauseam in forums and on social media about a character they loathe is beautiful thing.....for said character.

Jumping from a Forum, to Facebook to revel in the hate for said character. Rejoicing in the meeting of minds at how much you hate them. At every turn she does something oh so monstrous and it must be discussed.

I don't like Felicity Smoak. The last time I wrote that sentence was in 2016 when I stopped watching Arrow. I didn't like Laurel Lance either. I rarely discussed her until I started liking her because she was not worth the mention in my mind.

There isn't a character more powerful than one that is fiercely loved and fiercely hated. That's why in the Game of Thrones, Iris West-Allen wins.

To hate a character, to have a strong belief he/she ruins the show....and continue to watch and talk about it/her? Bravo! Brava! To said character. Indifference is a slow death. To love or hate is an obsession. A welcomed fixatation. "God I hate her....same time next week? Yup. God I she's loathsome...same time next week? God I hate her...how long is the hiatus?"

The harder antis hates, the harder fans loves. The more feverent buzz generated.

Haters love to claim they speak for the majority. It's the binkie of validity. Grant Gustin's Instagram post of the Westallen Wedding hit 1 Million Likes but you know, the "majority". Iris' speedster poster hits something like 620K Likes+. The main account posting Iris' poster gets over 235,000+ Likes in one day vs the Killer Frost one is still at 189,000+ after three months. At Comic Con (which I attended) Candice Patton received the loudest cheers upon her coming on stage and during the trailer but the "majority" right? Same with Arrow, the "majority" hate Felicity or Laurel but these defeaning cheers say otherwise.

Little secret, the "majority" that's spoken off will always hate female characters no matter. Said female character will always be destroying the show and driving away the "majority". That narrative will never die and it will never be the truth.

I disliked Felicity and Laurel at different points but I was blessed with a sound mind. Neither character ruined the show.

The love and hate are the balance. Guggenheim woke a beast when he killed off Laurel and welcome back Miss Lance. Felicity started off loved. The vitriol hatred that followed was the perfect balancing act. Their haters make them stronger. If only haters knew that but they can't physically stop themselves. Same with Iris. The Speedforce draws them to her. Must bash Iris! Must have her name in my mouth and on my keyboard.

Then there's indifference, Caitlin Snow. She doesn't blow a strong wind. It's not her fault. Her fans spend as much time, if not more time talking about Iris. Or using Caitlin as a self insert in this "Snowbarry" crackship. Due to the latter she became the revolving door for male guest stars: Ronnie, Hunter and Julian. Welcome to casa Caitlin! The former has led to the complete recton of Killer Frost S3 and the humorless comedy of men needing to yell in her face like she's the Siri on their iPhone to awaken Killer Frost.

Laurel fans ensured that the value of her character was NOT Lauriver. That's why bringing her back has been so easy. You could count on your hand the Laurel fans that still want Lauriver. Caitlin fans still to this day, desperately try to convince themselves Barry Allen, who declares his love for Iris nearly every episode is interested in Caitlin....*brief pause for embarassment*.....how can the writers value a character who isn't valued by her own fans? How can that level of indifference to who she is from her own fans do anything but devalue her season by season?

Patty Spivot. Indifference. She could've had it all but no impact. I could elaborate but it's been two years and we'll never see her again. You get the point. We were knee deep in her character and relationship with Barry and nothing. Evoke an emotion. Any emotion and make it have an impact. No? Let's keep moving.

Iris West-Allen's greatest super power is literally no one will shut up about her. Comical and wonderous.

Love her or hate her. Just know....you are the wind beneath her wings. The butter to her bread. The enema to her constipation. To put it simply...

 

[Primal Slayer]

Just having a little lurk in this forum. I was drawn to this discussion. I will exit as easily as I entered.

 

[Hunter Rider]

That's a hell of a first post! It is curious how people keep watching things they hate, I watched Wrestling for 25 years and when I started to hate the changes I stopped wacthing as I saw no point in watching purely to rant about how much I hate it every week on the forum, but for some the hate is like breathing I guess.

The Instagram stuff is interesting, I notice Candice likes posting cosy couples stills of Barry and Iris when promoting the eps, I wonder if she does it mostly for the likes or to mostly to boil the piss of her haters.