The Israel-Palestine Politics Thread II

[Midnyte_Sun]

If it's not Iran, it's the Syrian regime using Iranian tech, with the blessing of Iran. Not far off the same thing.

This is probably what occurred. Israel has been trying to get the United States and Europe to attack Iran for them for decades.

 

[Aximili86]

Well, that was certainly a great display of mental gymnastics.

Israel's not afraid to "attack" Iran directly if they have to, on their own. It's us holding them back, if anything. They've bombed neighbor's nuke problems before.

Maybe don't profess you want to wipe them off the map and then start further militarizing your capabilities. Sort of thing that gets someone pre-emptively stomped, that only makes sense.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So Israeli soldiers where shooting people on the Gaza border, sniper style. At least 15 were killed. And our president doesn't care.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...084a1666987_story.html?utm_term=.e0682a31c441

 

[Sithborg]

Trump is going to sell out the Palestinians. Or, already has.

 

[Aximili86]

Israel takes border sovereignty pretty seriously, who'da'thunkit?

Also just ignore a bunch of these people organizing this were known Hamas militants. That doesn't play a pretty serious factor context-wise or anything.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Trump is going to sell out the Palestinians. Or, already has.

His daughter married a Zionist, and his Middle East advisor supports Ethnic cleansing of Palestine for the greater good of Israel. So, yeah.

 

[Aximili86]

"Zionist", codeword for "Jew".

Oh, you.

 

[DeadPresident]

It would make it a lot tougher for anti-Semites to veil their prejudice if Netanyahu and his cronies didn’t have the opportunity to drag Israel’s reputation through the mud for like three decades.

Unfortunately because of his fascist tactics it’s in vogue to hate Jews again. Hopefully Israelis realize this soon and elect a more mindful government.

 

[Aximili86]

*Rants as Sasha Baron Cohen's Simpsons character about clueless westerners thinking Israel's overreacting due to coming at it from the perspective of 'Only having to worry about your arch-enemies Canada' or whatever the **** the line was*

"Fascist". Good god. You say that like this'd all suddenly be hugs & puppies if they took it back to the 1967 borders. And they should do that, I agree. Thing is, Hamas and the populace that ****ing elected them are still going to be pulling their "exterminaten der Juden!" schtick if they do.

Netanyahu's settlement expansion is an issue. It's not the issue. Being the guys with the biggest stick doesn't by default mean you're the guy in the wrong - people love underdogs, but there's a thousand lifetimes of blame to go around on this situation.

When you've basically got a situation where the Palestinian youth are screaming "the Palestinian Authority isn't anti-Israel enough!", yeah, the IDF's going to be lookin' frosty.

 

[DeadPresident]

Scroll back in this thread a few pages and look at my participation.

We can talk history, personal preferences and political/social leanings, but all that is rearranging the furniture on the Titanic when it comes to the sociopolitical consensus that has developed over the last century with regard to the Israel conundrum.

Fact of the matter is in the early 1900s Jews at large were on the receiving end of a lot of sympathy because of their treatment across Europe, which obviously came to a head after the Holocaust - but that's ancient history now and that global public sympathy at large now goes towards Muslims across the world because of the abuses they've suffered both in their own countries and abroad. Armchair liberals will always have a pet cause, if this were 1918 Midnyte would be vehemently arguing from his upper middle class apartment for the creation of a Jewish homeland because the Jews are facing inhumane persecution.

The new mantra for morality is that victimhood = virtue, so public sympathy will go to whoever is economically, socially, and politically disenfranchised - that's no longer the Jews. The world was fine being sympathetic to Jews (and since it's popular, the term Zionist, Jew, or Israeli have all been conflated in consensus) when they were pauper nomads trekking to Israel, but they're not fine being sympathetic to a group now perceived to be extremely well-heeled and committing atrocities against powerless victims.

If a nuke hit Tel-Aviv tomorrow there would be some murmured condolences, and a ****load of celebrations. Israeli politicians will have to do a lot to earn back any kind of positive sentiment on the international stage after Netanyahu's borderline dictatorial antics have effectively made the global citizen numb to whether or not the Jews continue to possess a homeland at all. If you want anyone to take an objective perspective on the humanitarian cluster**** that Israel has become it has to be in the context of Israel conceding some ground to the Palestinians and attempting to repair their villainous reputation. There's a possibility it's not salvageable at all, there's a possibility that a majority of the world wants every Zionist to be nuked out of Israel as a quid pro quo for their behavior over the last forty years.

 

[Aximili86]

There are no words for how insane those couple of paragraphs were.

 

[DeadPresident]

Seems like a pretty simple explanation for why most people won’t argue for Israel’s side of the debacle, in all honesty.

People don’t sympathize with entities they perceive as tyrannical...shocker

 

[Chance Jackson]

"Zionist", codeword for "Jew".

Oh, you.

more like A practitioner of Israeli Manifest Destiny

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

"Zionist", codeword for "Jew".

Oh, you.

Never knew Lindsey Graham and Pat Robertson were Jews by default. We'll need to rewrite the history books!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

*Rants as Sasha Baron Cohen's Simpsons character about clueless westerners thinking Israel's overreacting due to coming at it from the perspective of 'Only having to worry about your arch-enemies Canada' or whatever the **** the line was*

"Fascist". Good god. You say that like this'd all suddenly be hugs & puppies if they took it back to the 1967 borders. And they should do that, I agree. Thing is, Hamas and the populace that ****ing elected them are still going to be pulling their "exterminaten der Juden!" schtick if they do.

Netanyahu's settlement expansion is an issue. It's not the issue. Being the guys with the biggest stick doesn't by default mean you're the guy in the wrong - people love underdogs, but there's a thousand lifetimes of blame to go around on this situation.

When you've basically got a situation where the Palestinian youth are screaming "the Palestinian Authority isn't anti-Israel enough!", yeah, the IDF's going to be lookin' frosty.

Murdering people is murdering people no matter your religion or nationality. Sniping at folks praying is evil. Completely.

 

[Marvolo]

"Zionist", codeword for "Jew".

Oh, you.

No. Zionist isn't codeword for Jew. Midnyte is talking about Christian Zionism which is a political evangelical movement that predominately exists in the US. Their ideology is that Israel and the Jews should take control of Palestine and the Mount by various means, including unethical means, because they believe that must happen before the Second Coming. They also tend to act like Isreal should just lord over the Middle East and Muslims should just shut up and get out of the way.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

 

[chaseter]

It would make it a lot tougher for anti-Semites to veil their prejudice if Netanyahu and his cronies didn’t have the opportunity to drag Israel’s reputation through the mud for like three decades.

Unfortunately because of his fascist tactics it’s in vogue to hate Jews again. Hopefully Israelis realize this soon and elect a more mindful government.

I lol’d hard when Lorde cancelled her Israeli concert but she didn’t cross the wall to perform for the Palestinians. I would have paid to see that concert. Why no love for Palestine, Lorde?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I lol’d hard when Lorde cancelled her Israeli concert but she didn’t cross the wall to perform for the Palestinians. I would have paid to see that concert. Why no love for Palestine, Lorde?

What venues are Palestinians allowed by Israel to hold a concert and could they even afford Lorde with the severe restrictions Israel places on foreigners who support Palestinian causes?

Israel is the same country that denied Human Rights Watch to report in Gaza and wouldn't even allow a German-Palestinian couple to visit Palestine to hold a wedding.

 

[chamber-music]

Israel's ruling coalition reached an agreement regarding the clause in the nation-state bill that called for Jewish-only communities, Education Minister and Habayit Hayehudi head Naftali Bennett said Sunday.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...hed-on-jews-only-communities-clause-1.6271813

The legislation had been compared to South African apartheid by Israeli parliamentarians, and several thousand Israelis protested in Tel Aviv on Saturday.

It would of legally allowed Jews and Arabs to be segregated under the guise of protecting Jewish community identity and removed Arabic as a official language of Israel.



Lucky that public backlash tamed Netanyahu's ultra nationalist tendencies once again.

 

[Aximili86]

I love the way CNN words the story on the violence yesterday.

"According to Israel it was in response to further Hamas rocket attacks across the border." Bwaha, "according to Israel", that's basically CNN asserting they didn't think that happened.

Like Netanyahu or not, those attacks happened, and all the arson stuff today. Wedeman at CNN's pretty good on this stuff, along with the other guy reporting from Lebanon most of the time, but the rest of them (anchors and the low level peeps typing the news copy)...damn.

You wouldn't say "According to Hamas leadership, Israel bombed the **** out of them today." You just say "Israel bombed the **** out of them today", the qualifier stuff is bull****.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, isn't like Israel lies all the time at all.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, video lies.

You're a lost cause on this though, nobody's going to change anyone's minds on this issue. So, puppies & kittens & stuff I guess.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

According to you video and everything else lies but Israel in this situation.

 

[Aximili86]

Err, no. The video with the last flashup showed the protests on the border and the teargas and the dispersal methods. Just like it showed the rushing of the fence.

That was put out by the Palestinians, and is all clearly true, due to...video. Duh. My argument there was only ever over context of action, not what was shown on camera. Which obviously ****ing happened.

Somehow when the Israelis release their own feeds you see it as doctored or whatever, 'cause dem sneaky Jews. Projecting much?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No, its the evil ass Israel government, lead by an evil piece of ****, who constantly ****ing lie. But you want to avoid that very important part.