The Israel-Palestine Politics Thread II

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, I did say it'd be nice if we could eliminate Gaza. I realize the impracticalities of that scenario.

The issue isn't Gaza. The issue is attempted genocide. Remove Gaza and it would still persist.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[InCali]

This is a cluster EF of titanic proportions. Getting a handle on this situation and implementing a solution that is fair to the Palestinian people and Israelis is as important as any foreign policy project that exists. I can tell you one thing though, I have NO idea of how this works. If someone can pull a Jimmy Carter +, they'll go down in my book as godlike.

 

[Fosterson]

Its absolutely grotesque that people like this can on the one hand (rightly) condemn rocket attacks against Israel while at the same time cheering on Israeli air strikes on Gaza that kill far more people.

Palestinian lives simply do not matter to these psychopaths.

 

[Detective Conan]

'Wonder Woman' Star Gal Gadot Gets Backlash for Israel-Palestine Tweet - Variety

 

[Donner]

So Gal Gadot, good actress, sucks as a person.

 

[Sithborg]

I'm failing to see where her statement means she is a bad person.

 

[Donner]

I'm failing to see where her statement means she is a bad person.

She's been problematic in the past, defending Israel's actions. Her statement didn't even mention the Palestinians by name, just neighbours. Neighbours that Israel has been illegally occupying for decades.

So yeah I see her statement and her "prayers" as empty.

 

[Filmfreak]

Gal Gadot reminds me of the Prime Minister in my country, where after multiple episodes of police brutality for days, he decided to condemn violence only when a police officer was attacked by just addressing that specific incident.

 

[terry78]

It's a touchy subject so we all knew it was coming. I'm wondering if there will be calls for cancellation because she already has people in that community that are already beefing with her regarding opinions about that whole area.

 

[Marvolo]

She's been problematic in the past, defending Israel's actions. Her statement didn't even mention the Palestinians by name, just neighbours. Neighbours that Israel has been illegally occupying for decades.

So yeah I see her statement and her "prayers" as empty.

So Gal Gadot, good actress, sucks as a person.

She is Israeli born. She's going to be biased towards Israel some. I'm sure most adult Americans have defended america for questionable actions. Same goes for most adults worldwide, and their home country.

 

[Fosterson]

She is Israeli born. She's going to be biased towards Israel some. I'm sure most adult Americans have defended america for questionable actions. Same goes for most adults worldwide, and their home country.

So excusing war crimes is OK so long as your own country is committing them? Would you extend that charity to a Russian nationalist defending Russian war crimes in Chechnya, Ukraine or Syria? Or to a Chinese nationalist supporting the ongoing Uyghur genocide in Xinjiang?

 

[Marvolo]

It's a touchy subject so we all knew it was coming. I'm wondering if there will be calls for cancellation because she already has people in that community that are already beefing with her regarding opinions about that whole area.

There will be cancelation demands. Twitter has turned our society into an ocd lynchmob. Checking every statement and action by a person for social non conformity and questionable morals. God forbid a human be found wanting at all.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm failing to see where her statement means she is a bad person.

I read it and thought it was okay at first as well. Not good, of course. She was ignoring that apartheid is taking place, while playing both sides as "similar". They are not. But then I realized she seems incapable of acknowledging the existence of Palestine and it's people and yeah, and that is like a bare minimum. Especially for someone who served in the IDF.

In contrast, Natalie Portman has always acknowledged the general issues with Irsael's actions and racism in general. She actually acknowledges the Palestinian people.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

Is her career in the IDF even worth mentioning? It's mandatory and she was just a gym instructor or something

 

[DarthSkywalker]

She is Israeli born. She's going to be biased towards Israel some. I'm sure most adult Americans have defended america for questionable actions. Same goes for most adults worldwide, and their home country.

Yes, and we call them out for it. Why wouldn't we, it's wrong. Or are we back to invading Iraq was a good idea, that there are benefits to torture? Are you suggesting BS patriotism for patriotism sake is okay? These were the excuses used for racist tirades against black athletes across the country.

Natalie Portman was born in the city of Jerusalem. Somehow doesn't act like a ****head on this.

 

[Fosterson]

In contrast, Natalie Portman has always acknowledged the general issues with Irsael's actions and racism in general. She actually acknowledges the Palestinian people.

I think Portman has gotten a lot more critical in recent years than she used to be. After all, she studied under Alan Dershowitz (*shudders*) at Harvard. But stuff like refusing to attend the Genesis Prize ceremony because of what she correctly called "atrocities", flat-out calling Netanyahu a racist and now reposting unambiguously pro-Palestine posts on Instagram shows a major change.

I think its representative of how many American Jews (especially young American Jews) feel increasingly disconnected and alienated from Israel. As Israeli politics have shifted further and further to the right, and overt racism has been normalised in public discourse, most American Jews (who are overwhelmingly left-liberal) feel they cannot defend it anymore.

I think the election of Trump hastened this as well, given that he was the most overtly pro-Israel candidate ever (truly an impressive feat) and yet 75% of American Jews didn't vote for him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Is her career in the IDF even worth mentioning? It's mandatory and she was just a gym instructor or something

Yes. Just like it is important to mention Muhammed Ali's refusal to serve for the US military. Because people have choices. Willingness to serve this "mandatory" service in a military force enforcing apartheid is willingness to be a part of a military force enforcing apartheid. That she speaks about it the way she does now, shows she's cool with the whole apartheid thing.

I know this is wiki, but yeah:

Refusal to serve in the IDF - Wikipedia

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Portman has gotten a lot more critical in recent years than she used to be. After all, she studied under Alan Dershowitz (*shudders*) at Harvard. But stuff like refusing to attend the Genesis Prize ceremony because of what she correctly called "atrocities", flat-out calling Netanyahu a racist and now reposting unambiguously pro-Palestine posts on Instagram shows a major change.

I think its representative of how many American Jews (especially young American Jews) feel increasingly disconnected and alienated from Israel. As Israeli politics have shifted further and further to the right, and overt racism has been normalised in public discourse, most American Jews (who are overwhelmingly left-liberal) feel they cannot defend it anymore.

I think the election of Trump hastened this as well, given that he was the most overtly pro-Israel candidate ever (truly an impressive feat) and yet 75% of American Jews didn't vote for him.

Thank you for correcting that.

I have seen a lot of push back from American Jewish people like you mention, especially the young. It feels in stark contrast to what I see from Israel itself, and it kind of puts into perspective the difference between being Jewish and being Israeli, in a way I do not think Israel wants. The larger the gap, the less false flags about any critique of Israel as a state become effective.

I agree with you on Trump's election as well. I wonder how much his and a lot of his followers general anti-Semitic nature while saying they love Israel enforces the separation even more?

 

[Iceman]

I don’t think this statement is too bad by itself but she’s made one in the past (years ago) that was definitely worse. This is a horrific, ongoing modern conflict and she is an influential figure so words need to be chosen more carefully than when talking films or celebrity stuff.

 

[Fosterson]

I don’t think this statement is too bad by itself but she’s made one in the past (years ago) that was definitely worse. This is a horrific, ongoing modern conflict and she is an influential figure so words need to be chosen more carefully than when talking films or celebrity stuff.

Yes. I agree with this.

 

[Fosterson]

I agree with you on Trump's election as well. I wonder how much his and a lot of his followers general anti-Semitic nature while saying they love Israel enforces the separation even more?

Absolutely. It also doesn't help that Netanyahu has cozied up to Viktor Orban's far right government in Hungary, which peddles all sorts of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories claiming that George Soros (who just so happens to be Jewish) is conspiring to destroy Hungary through immigration.

In fact, Netanyahu and Co. really don't seem to have a problem with anti-Semites at all. That's why they had no problem with Trump sending a pastor to the opening of the new American embassy in Jerusalem in 2018 who once claimed that the Holocaust was divine punishment brought upon the Jews because they rejected Christ!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don’t think this statement is too bad by itself but she’s made one in the past (years ago) that was definitely worse. This is a horrific ongoing modern conflict and she is an influential figure so words need to chosen more carefully than when talking films or celebrity stuff.

That is the thing about this situation. There is no longer any ambiguity. We know who is in the wrong here. I was watching a lot of coverage the last few days. MSNBC, CNN, BBC, Sky News, and Channel 4. You can see a lot of wanting to play both sides, but it's also clearly getting harder and harder imo. Especially when you see the images. A lot more acknowledgment of the human rights groups and the Palestinians plight.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Andrew Yang, everyone: